Average Vote With a Comment. - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/13/2005 10:31:57 PM · #1

Well, it is nearing the close of my first challenge. Admittedly, the picture I submitted wasn't good, so my score wasn't very high. I knew that when submitting though, so I am actually a little pleasantly surprised that I got more than the 4 I would have given it.

I also did my best to comment on as many pictures as I could, commenting on around 70% of what I voted on.

Because of my own entry, I became a lot more sensitive to a particular issue that a number of people seem to be concerned about:

Good pictures get pages of comments.
Mediocre pictures get very few to a handful of comments
Really bad pictures get lots of comments (but they usually say the same thing)

Now I recognize that not every comment can be helpful or constructive, but in a week, with almost 300 votes on my picture, I have 6 comments, 2 of which actually appear to be posted with the intent to be helpful.

I don't object to positive comments that aren't being helpful, but there is a difference between someone saying "good" and actually trying to say something with meaning.

This is of course the whole point of less skilled people submitting pictures to contests with more skilled people - the potential for learning.

Therefore, I believe it would be a good idea to find ways to encourage people to comment and be helpful to those who submit pictures that need work. It is quite natural to want to say something to a guy who shot a stunning pic.

Would it be possible to add an additional stat in the profile that listed the average vote on commented pictures? I can't see that this would require too much additional coding and wouldn't take much extra space in the Statistics.

This would have the effect that people who post and vote meaningfully (I consider this to be the vast majority of this site - it doesn't seem to be sustainably fun to give 1's to masterpeices - the number of 1's and 2's on the winning entries seems to be in steep decline of late) would be encouraged to keep this figure LOW if they cared about other submitters.

Example: if you received a short comment from someone that was both neither thoughtful nor helpful and you viewed his profile to see that his average vote with a comment was 4.2, you might be led to believe that said person voted a lot on lower rated pictures. Further, if you found that that person's Comments to helpful ratio was very low, you could assume that he/she just couldn't think of anything to say or didn't have time. If the ratio was very high though, this person could be identified as someone who doesn't make a habit of being helpful.

Example 2: if a person's average photo commented on was 8.7, you could know that said person wasn't interested much in commenting to help less skilled ones, but was just interested in looking at the pretty pictures. There is of course nothing wrong with this stance either, but it might give a bit more context as to how to take a comment and might provide information to self-analyze when a person tries to make sure he is giving as much as he is getting (as I do periodically) from this website.

This would quite naturally by a very good way to help people to comment both on lower rated photos and make said comments thoughtful.

Comments anyone?

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

09/13/2005 10:38:43 PM · #2

mine would probably be around a 1.0

bucket

Canon EOS-30D

09/13/2005 10:42:05 PM · #3

feels too Big Brother to me..too much tracking for my tastes, would rather just let people do what they want..

mesmeraj

09/13/2005 10:47:06 PM · #4

for me, example 2 simply isnt true.
I will crit any score that asks me for a crit. I have offered constructive comments to pics i vote a 9 - why not tell them why they didnt get a 10? I will crit something i give a 3 - goodness knows they need to know why they got one. I will crit a 5. Sometimes i have to be asked, i am no judita, queen of comments.

Not everyone that comments on a pic they score high is a brown-noser. And that is really what this average vote per comment means to point out - who brown noses.

bpcardona

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM II

09/13/2005 10:57:59 PM · #5

I do wish that there were a way to encourage photographers such as,
dsdwell,librodo,jjbeguin, and so on, to comment on photos. This seems alittle to harsh for my taste but I do want to add to the point you made. I'am an rookie at this stuff as well and the comments that give a reason as to why they LIKED or disliked my photo are most helpful. Even more helpful is the tips on how to edit it better or how to shoot it better!! These mean more then a score or ribbon to me.

It's not that the more experience photographers have a duty to comment, but to those of you who do I want to personally tell you thank you. I hope that my skills will improve and the only way that will happen is though guidance.

"Thank You"

P.S. I just got yet another comment from SJCarter, and I think more people should comment like this guy. Thank You for your advice. VERY HELPFUL

Message edited by author 2005-09-13 23:04:05.

SJCarter

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/13/2005 11:15:06 PM · #6

Originally posted by homegrown863:

P.S. I just got yet another comment from SJCarter, and I think more people should comment like this guy. Thank You for your advice. VERY HELPFUL

Whoa dude! Thank you!!! IMHO, that's the highest honor anyone could bestow in this place. I'm very humbled and appropriately bashful about it (in only the way a true southern gentleman could be - LOL).

I am no expert by any means, but I call 'em like I see 'em. I've been very surprised to find that as I comment on more images, my own photographry improves. So, it seems pretty basic math to me that in order to get better on this site, you have to comment - a lot. And don't just say "nice picture" or "this is awesome", but actually study it and convey the feelings you get when viewing the image.

Again, I'm very surprised, a little bit embarrassed, but extraordinarily pleased, that you referred to me out of all of the fantastically talented individuals on this site. You've boosted my ego at a time when I could really use it too! (My latest two challenge entries are at about a 3.8 and a 4.5) LOL

I plan to continue commenting as much as possible, so if you don't like my style or bent, then I apologize - just take it for what it is - my opinion. For those of you who do like my style and bent, then thank you - I plan to continue on the road I've set out upon. The way I see it is that we're only helping each other.

Wow... Thank you homegrown863!

ttreit

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

09/13/2005 11:55:37 PM · #7

For me I just try to comment on as many pictures as I can and keep my day job. I tend to comment when I either really like something, really don't like something, or think I have something useful to say.

I think having some kind of system like you suggest might almost deter me from posting in case I get labeled one way or the other.

Tammer

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 22-55mm f/4.0-5.6 USM

09/14/2005 12:02:11 AM · #8

Having been a member for only a little over a month, I find that I try and truly give honest comments. I'm not that great with the technical stuff (yet) but I agree that SJCarter that really looking at a photo will improve my own skills. I always try to end my comments with something positive too.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/15/2005 01:41:25 PM · #9

The exchange between homegrown and SJcarter is exactly the thing that I feel makes this a website with tremendous potential. I think that we should all be trying to find ways to encourage this kind of thing.

I feel that most people who vote appropriately will not be bothered by having this information available.

Most people do vote and comment appropriately.

I just think that people don't comment enough on lower rated photos, which is where it is mostly needed. With this kind of modification, people might be encouraged to perhaps excel at commenting in places where it is more desired just in the same way that many people take pride in commenting on all photos in a challenge or giving out nearly as many comments as votes.

It'd be a nice way to help the little guys improve.

coley3

09/15/2005 01:46:04 PM · #10

I'm also getting low scores on my first entry. I didn't expect any higher because the photo was a last minute entry but I've gotten ZERO comments. I'm heart broken that people can give low score but say nothing.
Please comment if you're giving a low score!

tristalisk

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

09/15/2005 01:56:47 PM · #11

I agree that most of the lower scoring photos need the comments the worst. However I find it hard to say "This is a boring photo that seems to lack a center of intrest or purpose. It is poorly out of focus and the yellow tint from the flourescent lighting causes everything to look deseased and sickly." (I'm not refering to a particular photo. This is about as nice as I could phrase it. Should a risk destroying an upcommers asparations? I assume that must photos of this caliber are from beginning photographers.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

09/15/2005 02:13:21 PM · #12

I would find it hard to take if someone did say that to me. Perhaps you could find some way to comment using less loaded word choices. Not to mention a few less spelling errors ;). I don't normally hack on spelling errors, but your profile does mention that you have quite a bit of formal education and are a Navy engineer. I know you want to get what you are saying said quickly, but it shows that you don't care. That is hard for beginners to swallow.

"This is a boring photo that seems to lack a center of intrest or purpose. It is poorly out of focus and the yellow tint from the flourescent lighting causes everything to look deseased and sickly."

Could become "I feel this is a boring photo that seems to lack a center of interest or purpose. It is poorly focused and the yellow tint from the fluorescent lighting has a negative effect on the picture.

Have you read your manual? You will find information on WHITE BALANCE and AUTOFOCUS in the SHUTTER RELEASE BUTTON. Also, you might try reading up on COMPOSITION. Incorrect White Balance may cause things to look diseased and sickly."

There isn't that better? It is still quite strong, but if it was my picture, I would feel this was a highly informative and helpful comment. I would PM my thanks and appreciation. I would be excited about what I can do to improve and I would take more pictures as a result. I even worked "diseased" and "sickly" in there to make you feel the comment was more true to your flavour.

My point in this thread of course is that these comments need to be made. If you tell one newbie to go and read their manual and they do learn to use their camera better from it, there is one less out of focus and poorly balanced yellow tinted picture next time to clog the votes. There might even be something beautiful.

Jaimeson

Nikon D40

09/15/2005 02:20:08 PM · #13

I've found that the more I comment on other's photos, the easier it's becoming to see what things can be worked on to improve the photo. And if there isn't anything that MY EYE can see to improve it, then I comment on what I do like about the photo. I think that helps photographers who ARE better than me, as well.

It may take me longer to vote on all the photos, if I do get through them all, but it's something that helps me and the other's on this site.

troberge

Canon EOS-20D

09/15/2005 02:20:43 PM · #14

I think if the aim is to encourage people to comment, then this is the wrong way to go about it. It is like the "comment police" will be out and watching!

tristalisk

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/15/2005 02:37:39 PM · #15

My apologies for the poor grammar. The example comment I left was a bit to the extreme and does not represent the quality of my typical comments. I was attempting to convey the essence of a particular type of comment. The point of the post was to simply ask is. If you see a photo from a beggining photographer is it better to not leave a comment, or to leave a less than enthusiastic critique and risk destroying thier motivation to continue in photography.

eqsite

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

09/15/2005 02:42:13 PM · #16

As a beginner, I'd honestly rather get the comment. Yes, it stings at first, but the help that it offers outweights the initial sting IMHO. Of course, there are always those that don't react well to negative comments, but it sucks that those of us who want them suffer because others can't take a little constructive criticism.

tristalisk

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/15/2005 03:09:33 PM · #17

eqsite I left you a comment on your "Heart of the fingers lake" photo. Sorry to pick on you, but you mentioned you could use a few more comments and that you were new to photography. I chose this shot randomly from the portfolio to convey kind yet only mildy constructive critisism. Wher do you draw the line between nit picking and helpfullness? Do I not mention several aspect to not hurt his feelings? This is a line I try to error to the side of caution of.

eqsite

Nikon D7100

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

09/15/2005 03:27:57 PM · #18

Originally posted by tristalisk:

Thanks for the great comment. If you're going to comment like that, feel free to pick on me more. To critique your comment, I would honestly prefer less of the "let's not hurt your feelings" and instead focus on the areas for improvement, but that's just me. I'd have a hard time thinking anyone would object to what you've said, though. Also, what you may consider nit-picking may be some of the small things that together can change a mediocre photo into a much better one.

I think the challenge in commenting is to offer constructive advise without overwhelming yourself. If you were to offer that in-depth a comment on every photo in a challenge, you'd wear yourself out. Still, if everyone tried to comment more like that, even on just a few in each challenge, I think the eductional content of the site would improve dramatically.

p.s. I left you a comment on bug6.jpg to reciprocate and give you a sense of how I try to comment -- hope it's ok :)

Message edited by author 2005-09-15 15:33:29.