Suggested Editing Rules Part 2 - DPChallenge Forums

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

06/05/2003 09:49:01 AM · #101

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Why have it as an extra challenge instead of replacing an existing challenge with it?

Because there are those who don't want the change or who simply don't have the time to sit and play all day in Photoshop or PSP to do all the little things to "tweak" a photo. If you are going to change it to allow spot editing then I would want to also be able to use masking techniques and the point is it suddenly becomes can you vote on an image in a challenge that looks like this?

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=23959

If you said you can, then answer this...is the actual photo in focus? was there a good dof used in the photo, is there a texture to it? The more editing that is used the more problems that will develop. Once spot editing is allowed I will start my own crying for masking such as in the above photo to be premitted and before you know it, it will no longer be a photo competition but an art competition.

But I don't see anything wrong with having it as an extra challenge occassionally. I like the idea of an occassional challenge allowing all types of editing but I don't like the idea of it for every challenge cause you suddenly will start seeing more graphics and less photos.

So your example goes against two out of the 3 proposed rule changes. I don't quite understand the point.

Edit: I'm sorry - I just reviewed John's proposed changes. Your example breaks all 3 pretty directly.

Yes and that's what I am saying if what he is proposing happens then my example is where we are heading for any and all editing premitted! I don't want to see the change cause my example is what will eventually happen. And I for one will start a monthly thread on allowing all editing so there is no limitations if it goes to certain types of editing! I can whine around once a month too, to get all editing premitted and turn it into an art contest instead of photography, and that is what will happen if the changes take place, others will see things they can do to make an impression and will start requesting for this and this to be allowed and by the time it is all done there will be nothing but graphics.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

06/05/2003 09:55:06 AM · #102

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Let me get this straight... You believe that with my proposed three rules, that it would somehow evolve into a completely unlimited editing scheme? If so, please elaborate on how this would happen...

06/05/2003 09:58:20 AM · #103

She's already said how it will happen. She will start a thread every month till it happens.

06/05/2003 10:01:31 AM · #104

Yeah I do cause there are things that Photoshop can do that fit into your rules that you can't obtain in PSP without doing a number of things that aren't included. So I would be the first one to simply say oh I want absolutely all editing options premitted and then we would slowly develop into a challenge of who has the best software and who knows how to use it and who has the most special effects available to them?

06/05/2003 10:03:11 AM · #105

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Yeah I do cause there are things that Photoshop can do that fit into your rules that you can't obtain in PSP without doing a number of things that aren't included.

Well theres a number of things that some cameras can do that mine can't. Thats unfair.

06/05/2003 10:07:02 AM · #106

Originally posted by Konador:

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Yeah I do cause there are things that Photoshop can do that fit into your rules that you can't obtain in PSP without doing a number of things that aren't included.

Well theres a number of things that some cameras can do that mine can't. Thats unfair.

Well there are a number of things my camera can do that I haven't figured out yet how to do and no one is offering me any help =o( lol...but seriously if you know how to use your camera effectively there isn't much you can't correct within the rules right now.

06/05/2003 10:08:53 AM · #107

Except for those cameras that can do double exposures, but this is going off the point :P

Message edited by author 2003-06-05 10:09:25.

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8D

06/05/2003 10:14:37 AM · #108

Originally posted by Konador:

Except for those cameras that can do double exposures, but this is going off the point :P

yeah true and for those who can't do double exposures within your camera are you going to be the first ones to request all editing be premitted? Cause you can create the same effect within the editing?

Martus

Nikon Z6

06/05/2003 10:16:49 AM · #109

Originally posted by Konador:

Well theres a number of things that some cameras can do that mine can't. Thats unfair.

Being fair has nothing to do with it. People pay a lot of money for good software and equipment because they want to use it. No problem. What I do have a problem with, is people telling me that I can do the same things with a free program that they can do with photoshop. These people are either implying that they, themselves, are stupid for spending a fortune on these software packages when the free stuff would've been sufficient, or they are implying that I'm stupid for not being able to use the software efficiently.
This brings me back to my earlier question: If photoshop is no better than for example, The Gimp, why buy it?
The way things are now, people with less expensive equipment are already slightly disadvantaged and allowing photoshop gurus to flex their muscles will just broaden the chasm.

06/05/2003 10:18:01 AM · #110

I'm not going to be, because I think people who spend more money on equipment or software deserve to have better quality outputs. Thats how things work.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

06/05/2003 10:18:24 AM · #111

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Such as ? Over and over I see this bugbear posted about things that photoshop can do that people can't do in PSP/ the Gimp/ Serif Photoplus/ Satori PhotoXL/ Pixia/Ultimate Paint/ VicMan's Photo Editor or any other of the plethora of free image editors for Windows/Mac/Linux.

So what is it ? Can we at least get examples of these huge advantages Photoshop users have, rather than vague statements ?

06/05/2003 10:19:13 AM · #112

Originally posted by Martus:

Being fair has nothing to do with it.

I know, I was just trying to make a point :)

06/05/2003 10:22:55 AM · #113

Originally posted by Gordon:

So what is it ? Can we at least get examples of these huge advantages Photoshop users have, rather than vague statements ?

For starters it does have a better tech support than PSP and the tutorials have always been directed towards the photo work and not the graphics.

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

06/05/2003 10:25:25 AM · #114

also Photoshop has a lot more filters and tools available to it than the intial application of PSP. For PSP you have to have plug ins to do the same things that Photoshop can do on the initial installation.

Although like I said before PSP 8 is much more photo friendly but is still in beta testing =o(

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

06/05/2003 10:26:37 AM · #115

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

You can't create the same effect within the rules I suggested.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

06/05/2003 10:29:02 AM · #116

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Originally posted by Gordon:

So what is it ? Can we at least get examples of these huge advantages Photoshop users have, rather than vague statements ?

For starters it does have a better tech support than PSP and the tutorials have always been directed towards the photo work and not the graphics.

You've had links to several hundred PSP tutorials for photo related work posted in this thread and others in the last 24 hours. I still don't understand what you are saying - and unless PSP took out 50% of the program since versions 5 and 6, I really dont get what photo editing things you think you are missing. I used it for several years in the 90s to do all the photo maniupulation that I now do in photoshop.

The only reason I have and use photoshop is for the colour management and print features that aren't in PSP and other tools, and aren't relevent to this discussion. All the photoshop plug-ins work in PSP and vice-versa. Do you have specifics that you feel are missing that are relevent to photo editing ?

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

06/05/2003 10:39:43 AM · #117

Originally posted by Gordon:

The only reason I have and use photoshop is for the colour management and print features that aren't in PSP and other tools, and aren't relevent to this discussion. All the photoshop plug-ins work in PSP and vice-versa. Do you have specifics that you feel are missing that are relevent to photo editing ?

When it comes to spot editing PSP has different sizes of brushes but not to many different types of brushes where as PS has a lot of brushes. For PSP you have to track down the plugins to have the same features.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

06/05/2003 10:42:25 AM · #118

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Originally posted by Gordon:

The only reason I have and use photoshop is for the colour management and print features that aren't in PSP and other tools, and aren't relevent to this discussion. All the photoshop plug-ins work in PSP and vice-versa. Do you have specifics that you feel are missing that are relevent to photo editing ?

When it comes to spot editing PSP has different sizes of brushes but not to many different types of brushes where as PS has a lot of brushes. For PSP you have to track down the plugins to have the same features.

Why not just create your own using the brush editor ? I've only ever needed to change size/ opacity for photowork and I still don't remember PSP lacking any of this.

muckpond

Nikon D200

06/05/2003 10:50:54 AM · #119

Threads like this -- with the back and forth bitching and back-biting -- are EXACTLY what have totally turned me off from this site. Every now and then I pop my head in and there's some kind of up-in-arms discussion that really means nothing and is not helping anyone learn, improve, teach, mentor, or critique -- which is what I THOUGHT this site was about.

My advice: shut up and take pictures. I've not submitted here for months and have done some of my best work because I quit worrying about what people on the site would vote for.

If you would just take photos for YOURSELF, which is the real reason you should be taking photos, you'll be a lot happier. If you want a bunch of digitally-manipulated images hanging up in your house, then do it. If you're a purist and want everything straight outta the camera, hot pixels and all, then do it. JUST QUIT THE BITCHING AND TRY TO KEEP THIS SITE ON TRACK.

See you in a couple of months.
Rob

Niten

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/05/2003 11:12:31 AM · #120

I agree with JmSetzler on all three new rules.

Mostly the people who agree aren't posting so it might look like Setz against the world but its not.

Tim

06/05/2003 11:14:19 AM · #121

Originally posted by Niten:

I agree with JmSetzler on all three new rules.

Mostly the people who agree aren't posting so it might look like Setz against the world but its not.

Tim

On the same note though there are a lot who aren't posting who are dead set against it, they just don't want to get into the debate either.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/05/2003 11:17:40 AM · #122

Originally posted by Niten:

I agree with JmSetzler on all three new rules.

Mostly the people who agree aren't posting so it might look like Setz against the world but its not.

Tim

Um, if they aren't posting, how do you know what people want?

Niten

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/05/2003 11:19:04 AM · #123

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by Niten:
I agree with JmSetzler on all three new rules.

Mostly the people who agree aren't posting so it might look like Setz against the world but its not.

Tim

Um, if they aren't posting, how do you know what people want?

Um, because I am people.

Niten

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/05/2003 11:21:00 AM · #124

And the truth is I havent seen a SINGLE credible argument against them.

Tim