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09/12/2005 09:56:33 AM · #1 |
Ok - I think a nerve has been struck in another thread (High contrast dissapointment) and it may be taking over the thread...so here's a place to rant & rave to your heart's desire.
These comments kind of got the ball rolling...
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
I can't respect cheating. I don't necesary mean this challenge but in others where all commenters know "anonymous" the photographer's name during challenge. So in this condition to me a large part of those 343 people are just a bounch of cheaters friends of the winner that he has on his YM, DPCFanatics and god knows where else. Sorry, no respect from me. |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
I am 100% sure about it. Only this can explain why the same people win over and over again, while images 10 times better even by DPC standards, are in the middle in the pack, the same people who always turn out to be verry popular in the forums. And in every of that case every second commenter is stupid enough to name the "anonymous photographer". |
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09/12/2005 10:11:06 AM · #2 |
In researching the winning patterns of the High Contrast ribbon placers I've uncovered the following.
goodman
4 Ribbons in 103 Challenges entered
Identified zero times in the recent challenge by commenters.
postoakinversion
3 Ribbons in 54 Challenges entered
Identified zero times in the recent challenge by commenters.
bear_music
2 Ribbons in 74 Challenges entered
Identified twelve times in the recent challenge by commenters.
Ah-ha! There it is! bear_music was identified as the photographer with friends! Yep, the voters (his friends) decided it was time to vote Robert into a ribbon. Had nothing to do with his fine image - right! Sarcasm intended here...
Many photographers on DPC have either a unique style, or perhaps a favorite location. It still takes a darn good image to get to the top. No cheating involved here. At some point perhaps Robert will have run his course on the location used for his ribbon in High Contrast and will have to venture elsewhere more frequently. Just ask Zoomdak how that works.
For the record (you know, to keep the record straight) - winning patterns for other DPC photographers mentioned in my two posts for this thread are:
Zoomdak - 5 Ribbons in 100 Challenges entered.
frumoaznicul - 1 Ribbon in 43 Challenges entered.
Myself (glad2badad) - 1 Ribbon in 75 Challenges entered.
Message edited by author 2005-09-12 10:48:43.
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09/12/2005 10:44:00 AM · #3 |
I did feel a little singled out there, yup :-) My only question is, if I have so many "friends" and my images are so "recognizable", how come I don't have MORE ribbons? In any case, I can only assume that frumoaznicul would have me ignore great photographic opportunities because they take place in my immediate neighborhood and by now everyone knows what it looks like?
But, jaysus.. the cost of GAS, people... this is gonna get SO expensive, having to drive further and further every time to shoot my landscapes 'cuz I've already the shot the closer ones. I'm not sure I can afford DPC any longer :-)
Robt.
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09/12/2005 11:26:21 AM · #4 |
Not to be lynched or anything, I do have some opinions. And the opinions are based on people being able to know who the photographer is. There are certain people that have distinct styles: Heidi, Julia, Librodo, Joey, Pedro, Bear, Scalvert, etc. There are people that have certain faces: Mandy, Elaspo(sp), Joey, Nico, Annah, etc. Look at any of their entries in the last 6 months. You will find the comments you are looking for. Look at their consistant placement. Compare the comments to the placement. See a trend? I do and I'm only a poor uneducated fool.
It's great that they have discovered a style that works for them or a face that works for them. And they are, for the most part, excellent photographers but the purpose of DPC is challenge, for everyone. It isn't about using the same formula over and over again because it won a ribbon in the past. Why do they never challenge themselves and do something different?
I think Librodo summed it up, his ego was bruised when he did something different and he wanted a ribbon to validate his skills. My opinion is if a ribbon is the only way to feel worthy, you need to reevaluate why you want to receive ribbons for pictures that are no more than a reshoot of a preveious picture.
I can remember a time when it was frowned upon to use the same model over and over because it does tend to make the photographer known. |
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09/12/2005 11:26:28 AM · #5 |
| Or we could ALL go to his marsh, I think I even know where it is. Then we could all get ribbons. |
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09/12/2005 11:36:22 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
Or we could ALL go to his marsh, I think I even know where it is. Then we could all get ribbons. |
There's an idea! :-) Sadly, I still don't think I'd be able to manage a ribbon. Unless maybe he felt like sharing his nifty lens with me. *Wink wink* :-)
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09/12/2005 11:39:53 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by pcody:
Not to be lynched or anything, I do have some opinions. And the opinions are based on people being able to know who the photographer is. There are certain people that have distinct styles: Heidi, Julia, Librodo, Joey, Pedro, Bear, Scalvert, etc. There are people that have certain faces: Mandy, Elaspo(sp), Joey, Nico, Annah, etc. |
Hey hey hey, I have my own style too you know...
..it's called, "Needs room for improvement."
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09/12/2005 11:42:58 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by jenesis:
There's an idea! :-) Sadly, I still don't think I'd be able to manage a ribbon. Unless maybe he felt like sharing his nifty lens with me. *Wink wink* :-) |
You can have mine, I wish I could take that picture off my profile together with the ribbon. It's the crappiest picture I have ever taken. But atleast I have the guts to admit it's a crap picture that won in a challenge where the title was so vague that it was amongst the verry few images everyone agreed it meets the challenge. Atleast I am man enough to admit it, and the blue ribbon doesn't add anymore value to it. I'd gladly trash it from my profile together with the ribbon. I wanna make photography not ribbons.
I know it's a bad thing to critique a blue ribbon on thois site, I hope if it's mine is ok.
Message edited by author 2005-09-12 11:43:44. |
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09/12/2005 11:52:13 AM · #9 |
I'm very new here, but I just wanted to say that is all you're concerned with is getting a ribbon (or how someone else is getting a ribbon) on some place on the internet, with no cash award (which makes this conversation even more silly)...then you're not going to get as far with your craft as you COULD be, no matter how recognized or unrecognized you are. If you're concerned about your own personal growth as a photographer, all this other stuff should become quite meaningless. Nobody is going to be putting on their list of awards/accomplishments "received ribbon at dpchallenge.com" anytime soon. Perhaps someday places like this on the 'net will mature and develop the same prestige of other competitions, but until then, it's not worth the time worrying about it.
Be concerned about your photographic ability (artistic and technical), your critiquing skills, and developing confidence in your own merit as an artist. If you're seeking for a website, of all places, to validate your talents, then you've already lost half the battle before sharing one picture. Use the challenges to have fun, improve yourself, and take yourself to places you might not have considered before.
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09/12/2005 11:58:17 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by sestevens:
I'm very new here, but I just wanted to say that is all you're concerned with is getting a ribbon (or how someone else is getting a ribbon) on some place on the internet, with no cash award (which makes this conversation even more silly)...then you're not going to get as far with your craft as you COULD be, no matter how recognized or unrecognized you are. If you're concerned about your own personal growth as a photographer, all this other stuff should become quite meaningless. Nobody is going to be putting on their list of awards/accomplishments "received ribbon at dpchallenge.com" anytime soon. Perhaps someday places like this on the 'net will mature and develop the same prestige of other competitions, but until then, it's not worth the time worrying about it.
Be concerned about your photographic ability (artistic and technical), your critiquing skills, and developing confidence in your own merit as an artist. If you're seeking for a website, of all places, to validate your talents, then you've already lost half the battle before sharing one picture. Use the challenges to have fun, improve yourself, and take yourself to places you might not have considered before. |
well put |
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09/12/2005 12:11:23 PM · #11 |
What I'm more concerned with than people having their own photographic style or subject is the 'copycats' who attempt to replicate winning shots thinking they can pass themselves off as a photographer with a certain style and thus earn themselves a ribbon. The color portrait challenge is a fine example of that. I'm pretty sure headscarves isnt a new fall fashion trend so there is a good chance Librodo's recent blue inspired a lot of those shots. Inspiration is good but piggybacking just seems wrong. People need to find their own style and subjects and hope that is good enough to sway the masses.
As for Bear Music - I recognise his shots not from location or style but from the way he titles his entries. "Word -- explanation". When you see the same thing almost all the time then you start to notice things. Or else I just have a very sad life and notice too many of the little things. Heida also tends to use the same type of border.
Point is you can find a lot of similiarities and thus 'recognise' certain images by certain photographers once you've been exposed to their work long enough. If there are people out there who vote high because they think they know who the photographer is then shame on them, but I'm sure there are as many who vote low because they think they who the photographer is also.
Let's just look at all the purty pitchers and stop worrying about who took what or who is winning or who is losing etc etc. |
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09/12/2005 12:18:46 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
I am 100% sure about it. Only this can explain why the same people win over and over again, while images 10 times better even by DPC standards, are in the middle in the pack, the same people who always turn out to be verry popular in the forums. And in every of that case every second commenter is stupid enough to name the "anonymous photographer". |
How lame.. I was one of those who identified bear_music's entry and said so in the comments. I dont know him in person.
I voted the entry a 9 and would have voted the same even if it was somebody else's.
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09/12/2005 12:35:40 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by pcody:
There are certain people that have distinct styles: Heidi, Julia, Librodo, Joey, Pedro, Bear, Scalvert, etc. ... Why do they never challenge themselves and do something different? |
Huh? My models, locations and compositions vary, I've entered color, B&W and sepia. While I tend to favor visual puzzles, three of my top 10 scores (including a blue) are "regular" photos. If I have any "style" at all, it's originality and creativity- both of which REQUIRE me to challenge myself and do something different. :-/ |
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09/12/2005 12:43:46 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by pcody:
There are certain people that have distinct styles: Heidi, Julia, Librodo, Joey, Pedro, Bear, Scalvert, etc. ... Why do they never challenge themselves and do something different? |
Huh? My models, locations and compositions vary, I've entered color, B&W and sepia. While I tend to favor visual puzzles, three of my top 10 scores (including a blue) are "regular" photos. If I have any "style" at all, it's originality and creativity- both of which REQUIRE me to challenge myself and do something different. :-/ |
Damn your sense of humor!
(Is humor a style or a bone found in the human body?) |
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09/12/2005 12:50:55 PM · #15 |
It might be instructive, or edifying, for a few people to go through my 75 challenge entries and see just how broad a range of things I have done. I don't think it's my "fault" that my highest-scoring shots are landscapes with boats in 'em, sheesh. I don't think it's my "fault" that I'm a landscape photographer and that I retired to Cape Cod because I wanted to shoot these scenes.
If anything's my "fault" it is that I shoot a LOT of pictures in these (and similar) locations, and in the natural course of things very few of themmake into challenges, so I post 'em in the forums. Which, after all, is one of the reasons we are here. What is someone in my position supposed to do? Not participate with his best work? I take my knocks in the stuff I don't do so well, and I'm a good sport about it. Why can't certain others be good sports when one of my "recognizable" images hits the jackpot?
I think this anonymity thing is a red herring anyway, frankly. There were what, over 300 votes on that image? And 12 people commented that they "recognized" it? Even granted that not all the recognizers said anything about it, it's still just a small percentage of the total. And this doesn't even take into account that I'd assume some percentage of people who recognize a shooter's work vote it down, not up; lord knows there are plenty of folks here who don't seem to care for me :-)
Actually, if there's a problem here it's more likely to be the fact that people who "recognize" an image seem compelled to leave their spoor in the comments, like they get bonus points for doing so :-) I've been guilty of this myself, and I'm not gonna do it anymore. There wouldn't even be an issue here if 12 out of 39 commenters hadn't said they'd "found" my pretty picture :-)
I find it all very depressing. That's the single best picture I've taken all year and people are dumping on me 'cuz so-called "anonymity" was breached simply because the image looked like what I do best. It's enough to make me weep. And, to be honest, I'm GLAD the date stamp was wrong so I won't have to put up with this crap any longer on that picture.
Y'all (you know who you are) took all the joy out of it for me. Shame on you!
Robt.
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09/12/2005 12:57:05 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Damn your sense of humor!
(Is humor a style or a bone found in the human body?) |
Humorous is a funny adjective ...
Humerus is the bone in your upper arm running from shoulder to elbow.
The stinging/numbing sensation referred-to as "hitting one's funny-bone" is actually trauma to the Ulnar Nerve, exposed as it passes through the elbow joint on its way to the hand.
This particular trauma offers a classic example of clearly defined dermatomes (areas enervated by a particular nerve): in most people, the area of numbness will include the pinky and ring fingers, but only HALF of the millde finger; the side next to the index finger will be unaffected, as it is covered by the Radial Nerve, traveling doen the other side of the arm. |
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09/12/2005 01:03:10 PM · #17 |
Alas, I have no funny bone...
Actually, the ulnar nerve in my left arm was moved due to elbow trauma. Now every once in a while I notice a huge bruise on my arm and have no idea where it came from...
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09/12/2005 01:08:06 PM · #18 |
I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theory as frumoaznicul and pcody have suggested.....
it would take more than a handful of conspirators to make any impact. The question do entrants
show and tell others before a challenge..... I would say yes, unethical though it may be, in overt and subliminal ways -
in forums, pms, and at fanatics, but I doubt it could be eliminated, unless it was done on such a massive scale that it
was obvious. Personal style - as by Heidi are sometimes obvious, but not always, sometimes you can take a guess.
Some are so good - like scalvert or frumoaznicul or pcody I can never tell. Sometimes self promotion as in Bear_music's
situatation reveals the obvious.
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09/12/2005 01:08:20 PM · #19 |
Aww. Now I feel like the heel you want me to, bear, almost but I know I can't "make" you feel anything you don't want to. Shouldn't one speak of these things if one feels like the known is being more favored than the unknown? This has nothing to do with me or my pictures or my scores or my envy or my hatred of winners. It has everything to do with what the challenges were about a long time ago.
That has changed in the last year. I don't think it's a change for the betterment of the site as a whole. All these recent threads all point to the same thing and it's not just going to go away by making someone feel like a heel because they said it
Edit: I never said it's a conspiricy. I said that it's human to like that which is known and to be influnced when you know who took the photo.
Message edited by author 2005-09-12 13:09:56. |
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09/12/2005 01:14:17 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by pcody:
Aww. Now I feel like the heel you want me to, bear, almost but I know I can't "make" you feel anything you don't want to. Shouldn't one speak of these things if one feels like the known is being more favored than the unknown? This has nothing to do with me or my pictures or my scores or my envy or my hatred of winners. It has everything to do with what the challenges were about a long time ago.
That has changed in the last year. I don't think it's a change for the betterment of the site as a whole. All these recent threads all point to the same thing and it's not just going to go away by making someone feel like a heel because they said it. |
Fine, BUT WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? Undieyatch just accused me of "self promotion", for cripesake. Say what? My huge activity in this site is "self-promoting"? I'm going for the big payoff or something? Jaysus! I'm active because I feel like I'm helping people. Because I'm active, I'm framiliar. Because I'm familiar, I have an unfair advantage? Is that how it goes?
What do y'all want me to do? Shall I stop participating, just shut the hell UP and disappear? Let's get real here, alright? If you're as active as I am, you're gonna make friends and your work is gonna become familiar. Would you prefer that NOBODY maintained activity, so we'd all be anonymous? What's the fun in that?
(sjakes head wearily)
R.
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09/12/2005 01:15:32 PM · #21 |
ok "conspiracy theory" is a bit heavy handed....
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09/12/2005 01:16:18 PM · #22 |
I still love you bear......
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09/12/2005 01:22:54 PM · #23 |
i only recognize heida, joey, librodo, and nico blue(??) photos. I didnt recognize Bear in the challenge. Honestly he does good work but he doesnt score high all the time, so i thought it was great that he won the ribbon. I didnt think to question how people guessed it was his. Didn't see it as an issue.
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09/12/2005 01:25:54 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
Or we could ALL go to his marsh, I think I even know where it is. Then we could all get ribbons. |
Funny you should say that..... I know where his marsh is.... took tons of photos of it.... are any of mine ribbon contenders.. not a chance.
If Robert can take a photo of a rather mundane looking environment do it in such a splendid fashion... the more power to him. I can only say that I envy his skills and it only serves as an enticement to try harder.
There are several truly gifted people in here and I for one do not begrudge the fact that they "Occasionally" win a ribbon.
Quit worrying about the others and focus on your own abilities.
Ray |
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09/12/2005 01:41:02 PM · #25 |
If people woudl put in harf the time improving their photos, rather than posting angry crud in the forums... They'd improve.. Come on people... Go work on your craft instead of pointing fingers.
I usually can pick out certain peoples photos as anyone can. YES, some people say Oh thats Joey's or Soni's or BEars or (goes on and on) and give em a point or two more ...but that doesn't help in the long run. WHat does help in the long run is their TALENT. and the time they worked on improving their talent...
so
GO OUT AND TAKE PHOTOS! WORK ON YOUR CRAFT!! |
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