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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Approached for the use of my images - what to do?
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 08/18/2005 07:39:11 AM · #1
I have received an e-mail through my Pbase account as follows:

We are a web design and development company in Chennai, India. We have come across your gallery on pbase and its amazing.Thanks for sharing the work.

We are creating a new Wallpapers website and for which we would like to use these photos. Can we go ahead and use the photos. We will include a by line saying "Photo by: yourname" in all the pictures. Is that fine with you? If so let us know and we will proceed. Else, no probs!.

Once again, thank you for sharing with us.
Killerdesigns

What to do?
Obviously I need to clarify exactly which images they want to use, but do I just consider this as 'good' advertising or ask for a fee (tone of e-mail suggests on fee). It's good that they have aksed for permission of useage.

Does anyone have any good advice they can share as this is the first time this sort of thing has happened to me. What would the 'going' rate be for something like this?

Thanks in advance for any feedback
Nordic
08/18/2005 07:47:58 AM · #2
I wonder if they are trying to set up a similar site to:
WebShots.com

Where you downlaod a simple software application and each day your desktop changes to a different picture (seems to be 600x400 images size)? Interestingly for ordering print quality images you have to pay.....

Anyone had any experience of supplying images to similar sites?

Cheers,
Nordic
 08/18/2005 07:54:18 AM · #3
heyah, neil! on one hand, congrats! on the other, tread gently...i have no experience with this, but it does look like there is more than ample room for exploitation.

as to pricing, check out the link in this thread and play around with rights-managed pricing calculator. hopefully, you'll get some idea as to how to value it.

Message edited by author 2005-08-18 07:54:30.
 08/18/2005 07:56:41 AM · #4
It doesn't look like they're offering to pay, I think they're asking for freebies..
 08/18/2005 08:02:35 AM · #5
Originally posted by skiprow:
heyah, neil! on one hand, congrats! on the other, tread gently...i have no experience with this, but it does look like there is more than ample room for exploitation.

as to pricing, check out the link in this thread and play around with rights-managed pricing calculator. hopefully, you'll get some idea as to how to value it.


Thanks Skip for an excellent thread... will read on....

Cheers,
Nordic
 08/18/2005 08:16:04 AM · #6
Don't cheapen yourself by giving away your stuff for free. If they find your stuff that interesting I'm sure they won't mind forking over some dough for it. Don't give your shots away. I'd also monitor their site to make sure they don't "lift" your images.
 08/18/2005 02:55:05 PM · #7
I've enquired about useage and fees and this is the reply e-mail.

"Thanks for replying my email. We are about to start a new service of providing free desktop wallpapers and shortly some screensavers too.

I have so far seen your windmills gallery and its really great. I know how hard it might have been to take such good quality of photos. I dont know ABC of photography. Right now I am going to provide this service only as a free download to people and we are not a big company to purchase good and copyrighted phtos. We are only a team of 20 people. Mid sized company.

All I can provide you is a very neatly designed page for you. If not I can even design a complete website for you in return. And also, I will provide a byline in all the photos for you which you can verify.

I assure you I will not sell these desktop wallpapers nor your photos without written consent from you. If you are willing for this, then tell me how to proceed.

I can even name the gallery on you and popularize the site. We are also into website promotion. So once we complete the site, we will be able to promote to with your information. This is what I can provide you in return.

Thank you for your time."

Any thoughts - is it worth a gamble?

Nordic
 08/18/2005 03:23:12 PM · #8
It all depends on what you want to do with these images in the future. If you have no future plans/ambitions for the shots then you can give them away, but if you ever want to sell the rights away (for lots of money), enter them in big contests and some other things where you will need to have exclusive rights on the image then you might run into some trouble.

Personally i wouldnt do it.

Message edited by author 2005-08-18 15:24:00.
 08/18/2005 03:58:21 PM · #9
Yes.. WHERE ARE THEY INCLUDING THE BY LINE ???

I mean, I could easily include a by-line in every JPEG. That does NOT mean it's visible. I could include it in the actual code header of the file. Is that satisfactory?

Do you make sure they limit it?

Do you allow it only for "non-commercial use"?

Ask them what their plans are? how much they're selling it for? is it licensed? if so, perhaps a dozen or so free licenses for the program in trade? etc?
 08/18/2005 04:09:37 PM · #10
Originally posted by nico_blue:
Personally i wouldnt do it.


I agree!
 08/18/2005 04:18:09 PM · #11
do NOT give your photos away!
charge them something.
From the sounds of it, they are going to re-sell your images as wallpaper for websites, find out what they are re-selling for, and get a percentage, or a flat fee for a set time period, and make sure you have a contract!
 08/18/2005 04:28:08 PM · #12
Say no. If I email you the following, would you go for it?

"Hi, you have a wonderful car sitting in your driveway. I noticed that you don't use it in the evenings and wanted to make sure I could borrow it and run a taxi service at night. I would tell all of our customers that you were kind enough to share your car with us. Is that fine with you? Else, no probs"

Message edited by author 2005-08-18 16:30:02.
 08/18/2005 04:38:15 PM · #13
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Say no. If I email you the following, would you go for it?

"Hi, you have a wonderful car sitting in your driveway. I noticed that you don't use it in the evenings and wanted to make sure I could borrow it and run a taxi service at night. I would tell all of our customers that you were kind enough to share your car with us. Is that fine with you? Else, no probs"


I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare tangible goods to digital.

They offered a form of advertising to use the pictures - seems like it is a deal worth considering depending on the future plans for the photographer and the photo(s).

This one deal is not going to make anybody rich - or anybody poor. From my own experience, it's cool seeing your own name "up in lights" - I gave away a picture for a small magazine cover once - and got credit on the inside cover along with several copies. I have no regrets!
 08/18/2005 04:44:32 PM · #14
Just as a further arguement as to why not to give them your images is that the company is based in India... even if you make an agreement of any sorts will you be able to track them down? Having lived in Nigeria for 10 years I think I can fairly say that the rules of the game are very different in 3rd world countries.
08/18/2005 04:53:29 PM · #15
Originally posted by joebok:
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare tangible goods to digital.


Interesting. It's exactly this attitude that is the problem.

By the way, you should rarely 'sell' (let alone 'give away') a photo. A photo is something you license, not sell (usually).
 08/18/2005 05:18:27 PM · #16
Depends on you.

I'd do it, but I don't have any aspirations of making money off photography. I'd get a kick out of my name and photos possibly getting wide distribution (but I'd limit which photos they could use just in case i ever got really good and changed my mind...)

If you make money or plan on making money off photography I would suggest not doing it.

08/18/2005 05:32:02 PM · #17
i would guess that they would be willing to pay you. I charged a couple hundred bucks for one image when I did a design project for a law firm.. it's all about the customer. I'm not greedy by any means but they wouldn;t pay you if they couldn't afford it. Sell your talent if people are seeking you out!!!
 08/18/2005 05:52:18 PM · #18
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by joebok:
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare tangible goods to digital.


Interesting. It's exactly this attitude that is the problem.

By the way, you should rarely 'sell' (let alone 'give away') a photo. A photo is something you license, not sell (usually).


What is the "problem" of which you speak?

I'm not saying that photos or other copyrightable material should be free, just that a digital object is inherently different than a physical object. Two people can have identical copies of the same digital object in a way that is not possible for a physical object. The costs associated with digital copies are generally quite neglible compared to manufacture of physical copies.

I think you realize this distinction when you say one should "license" digital image, not "sell" them - i.e. grant a license to copy (under certain conditions) rather than give up a physical object.

I don't think that current copyright law adequately meets it's goal of encouraging and promoting creative content, and I think laws like the DMCA are far too restrictive of "fair use". That's what I think the problem is.
 08/19/2005 12:06:11 PM · #19
How nice they asked.

Here's another slant on the situation. I take real estate photos for a company and specifically license the use to that company for that company's use. Another company, in our small town, used my photos when they acquired the listing for one of the properties without asking either my company or me. My company was somewhat upset, since they had paid for the use of the photos and the other company had not. We contacted the other company (politely and diplomatically) and pointed this out to them and they did, ultimately, withdraw the photos but not without arguing that once those photos were "out there" they should be "fair game." I don't think so and neither does the multiple listing service both companies are associated with. Only the "primary" photo may be used, beyond the term of a given company's listing and it can only be used in the mls publication, not on the company's own web site or in-house publications (and I agree to that in my arrangement with my company). The "additional" photos (or Virtual Tour, if one uses that in promotion efforts) cannot be used without express permission. The other company did not feel they needed to reimburse my company for its expense and deal with me about subsequent use. Had they asked us and offered to reimburse my folks for their expense we probably would have been inclined to let them, but their blatant disregard for something that is clearly explained in the rules of the mls, not to mention the fact that those photos were the property of someone else (regardless of whether it was me or my company) was inexcusable. Even an apology and saying they hadn't been aware would have been nice, but they were beligerant from the start. Hope this isn't off topic too much.
 08/19/2005 12:43:48 PM · #20
I wouldn't do it just because it sounds like some Chinese schmoe screensaver website at best. Not saying the guy isn't legit, in fact it's surprising he asked permission. Just saying it would not be worth your time or potential frustration.
08/19/2005 01:37:55 PM · #21
KillerDezines does not appear to be a charity, or a non-profit organization. They are a for-profit company and should be willing to pay for the images they put into their products, even if it is a give away product just intended to bring traffic to their website.

To me this illustrates the "soccer mom with a Point & Shoot digicam" phenomenon. People are beginning to think that digital photographs, especially one's posted on the web, are so easy to come by that they don't have any real value.

"we are not a big company to purchase good and copyrighted phtos. We are only a team of 20 people. Mid sized company."

From the looks of their website, I serioulsy doubt they actually have 20 employees, maybe 19 of their team members are people who have given them photos. In the era of the pennystock sites, no company should be claiming they can't afford to purchase digital images.
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