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05/24/2003 02:29:21 AM · #51 |
yeah, that's it . right , as usual ;)...
just ask yourself one question: why is it that pretty much every discussion you are involved in is polarized - you against everyone else? do you really, truly, think that it's EVERYONE else who has the problem or is wrong, and not you?
something to think about ... :)
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05/24/2003 02:30:51 AM · #52 |
that's very nice. i like that alot. no joke. very pretty.
now, as to your intent - to share? as an example? please elaborate.
Originally posted by paganini:
And since no one cares for the rules anymore about not discussing current challenges by showing images.. well, here is a duotone image :)
Comet Falls |
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05/24/2003 02:34:12 AM · #53 |
My reaction to this is the following:
one of the DPC primadonna flock decides to post a photo for comment on a current challenge. Someone challenges that idea and everyone from that flock jumps on him. It's that simple.
I actually feel sorry for GeneralE for having people telling him that his comments were out of place, etc. He's making a perfectly valid point. There have been lots of people showing their images to "test the water" for reaction before the challenge. I think that's what he was talking about. But no, no one ever reads that and anything that other people say, must be an ego thing.
Personally, i'd voice my opinion, and if it gets a strong reaction, that's not really my problem :) Sorry dude, but despite your insults, i dont' really get bothered that much, in fact, it's sort of funny seeing you're all worked up this way. Boy, that Zen comment must still be reeling in your head, even now.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
yeah, that's it . right , as usual ;)...
just ask yourself one question: why is it that pretty much every discussion you are involved in is polarized - you against everyone else? do you really, truly, think that it's EVERYONE else who has the problem or is wrong, and not you?
something to think about ... :) |
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 02:36:15. |
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05/24/2003 02:35:30 AM · #54 |
Well, since there seems to be no one following rules for showing "example" images for a specific challenge, why the hell not to share? :) Isn't it one of those "test the water" deals that people do anyway?
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
that's very nice. i like that alot. no joke. very pretty.
now, as to your intent - to share? as an example? please elaborate.
Originally posted by paganini:
And since no one cares for the rules anymore about not discussing current challenges by showing images.. well, here is a duotone image :)
Comet Falls |
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05/24/2003 02:37:18 AM · #55 |
you totally failed to read this part of my original post apparently :
"I'm still not really clear as to what people are afraid of about all this. as others have said, 'i need feedback on a picture i want to enter' is totally different from 'here's a picture im not going to enter that's related'. is it that they might double cross everyone and enter it anyway? if that's the case, it would almost certainly be a victim of backlash voting. "
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05/24/2003 02:38:22 AM · #56 |
right, and all i was saying was that i thought it's ok to share, just not to 'test the waters with an actual entry'.
if you know you're not gonna enter it, then no prob, share it up - that's my opinion anyway... others disagree, so what? they can. that's the beauty of it :)
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05/24/2003 02:40:00 AM · #57 |
hmm.. if my first post was addressed to anyone, it sure wasn't GE. it was to whomever it was who said that john gets special treatment for being a 'celebrity.' they deserved clarification that john's history on this site is one of positive sharing.
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 02:41:21.
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05/24/2003 02:43:58 AM · #58 |
paganini=troll. honestly this thread is getting crazy. no rules were broken at all by john's decision to share a photo. these types of photos can be found many other places on the www. pag, you have a personal axe to grind with some people here for some reason. mag has been nothing but reasonable with you while you spout your fascist remarks. the same goes with john. calling people prima donnas is riddiculous, especially for someone who doesn't have a good enough reputation to make such accusations. you just need to chill out and stop being so confrontational...you might actually learn something here.
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 02:49:31. |
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05/24/2003 02:45:13 AM · #59 |
You know as well as I do people have been using this type of topic discussions to "test the water" on a given challenge. Such as "Here's my example", etc. They want to get reaction as to what the voters would think of it, RATHER, than what THEY think of it. I think that's what GeneralE is referring to -- since people can't show their images in the current challenge, why would an example be different? It's all about getting reaction to the photo and then submit the one you think will do better than the one that you originally given as an example (which is usually the photo that you like most or you wouldn't shown it). Now John may not be participating in the challenge, but there are other similar discussions in the past where the intent WAS to get the reaction before the voting begins (including the classic 3-4 photo posts and asking people which one they like most) -- that's what GeneralE is talking about. But boy, what a reaction he gets when he mentions it.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
you totally failed to read this part of my original post apparently :
"I'm still not really clear as to what people are afraid of about all this. as others have said, 'i need feedback on a picture i want to enter' is totally different from 'here's a picture im not going to enter that's related'. is it that they might double cross everyone and enter it anyway? if that's the case, it would almost certainly be a victim of backlash voting. " |
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05/24/2003 02:47:01 AM · #60 |
achiral=herd follower :)
Originally posted by achiral:
paganini=troll |
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05/24/2003 02:49:27 AM · #61 |
So annnnyway, after getting sidetracked ;) (talk about high noise to signal ratio, sheez), let me restate my original position, since this is the first thread in which I've stated it:
i, personally, don't have any problem with people putting out pics related to the current challenge, as long as they are not to be entries or similar to entries. No matter who it is.
In fact, I welcome it. The more the better. I think it's beneficial and inspiring. It lets people not work in the dark, helps people get into the ballpark, stimulates, and inspires. Not to mention gives people a feel for the standard of shots they can expect to compete against , so they can assess if they need to hone their own entries.
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 02:54:50.
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05/24/2003 02:52:16 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by paganini:
achiral=herd follower :)
Originally posted by achiral:
paganini=troll |
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in this instance yes i am following the herd because i respect what mag and john have done for the site and the advice they have given me. i appreciate that a lot and i hate to see your type of frivolous arguments sour the mood around here. let's all just get along. it IS possible pag, trust me |
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05/24/2003 02:53:59 AM · #63 |
Is that really what they're doing? Something sleazy? I guess I never noticed, or I'm naive.
Seems like all the pre-outtake threads I've seen people have disclaimed that the shot is totally different from their entry.
And I think the reaction GE got wasn't so much to the philosophy of what he is proposing - just that John was trying to do that. Because, again, seriously, why would he have to? He never did before. He has a decent track record. I'd say that about anyone with a good rep, too, not just someone popular.....
Originally posted by paganini:
You know as well as I do people have been using this type of topic discussions to "test the water" on a given challenge. Such as "Here's my example", etc. They want to get reaction as to what the voters would think of it, RATHER, than what THEY think of it. I think that's what GeneralE is referring to -- since people can't show their images in the current challenge, why would an example be different? It's all about getting reaction to the photo and then submit the one you think will do better than the one that you originally given as an example (which is usually the photo that you like most or you wouldn't shown it). Now John may not be participating in the challenge, but there are other similar discussions in the past where the intent WAS to get the reaction before the voting begins (including the classic 3-4 photo posts and asking people which one they like most) -- that's what GeneralE is talking about. But boy, what a reaction he gets when he mentions it.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
you totally failed to read this part of my original post apparently :
"I'm still not really clear as to what people are afraid of about all this. as others have said, 'i need feedback on a picture i want to enter' is totally different from 'here's a picture im not going to enter that's related'. is it that they might double cross everyone and enter it anyway? if that's the case, it would almost certainly be a victim of backlash voting. " |
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Message edited by author 2003-05-24 03:02:33.
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05/24/2003 03:05:53 AM · #64 |
you seem to have described yourself here . . . Originally posted by paganini:
But no, no one ever reads that and anything that other people say, must be an ego thing |
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05/24/2003 03:09:58 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by paganini:
You know as well as I do people have been using this type of topic discussions to "test the water" on a given challenge. Such as "Here's my example", etc. |
Wish these weren't already in my portfolio
Branding Chute
or this Buffalo White Out
or this Gazebo Wait that was in a challenge already
or this Always Watching
or this Angel Arch
OH YEAH!!!
DISCLAIMER: These photos were all taken before this challenge was even thought of. They are just examples of Duotones. Thank You and Good Night
tracy
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05/24/2003 03:15:47 AM · #66 |
.
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 03:20:55.
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05/24/2003 03:16:07 AM · #67 |
Paganini - the second post in this thread was a crriticism of the photo John posted. No-one jumped on it. Wonder why?
I wish you could underatnd now rude and dismissive so many of your comments and posts appear to be to most people here. I suspect however, that it's deliberate, which is a pity.
But there are rude and dismissive people in every community, on-line or otherwise.
Ed
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05/24/2003 03:16:44 AM · #68 |
I didn't say John was, I said posts like THESE are. The reason why they submitted photos that are not the same as the pre-outtakes is because they got reaction to their pre-outtakes :) again, it's test the water thing. I frankly can care less about whether people wants to test the water to submit to the challenge, because they obviously care for the challenge results, but I think GeneralE got the bad reaction from yes, the primadonna herds, as usual. (Just look at the reaction to his post and the posters....) BTW, i wouldn't call people testing water of a challenge as "sleezy" anyway, i think some people might think is unethical and they may have a point. I personally don't care for the pre-challenge outtakes, but I really dont' like it when people ganged up on someone for voicing their opinion with validity.
Besides, on DPC it's nearly impossible to give any criticism without being called something or another. It's like the other day when I was going through the Secondary challenge and I looked at the photo and my reaction was that the paint look like vomit. So i wrote "This photo reminds me of vomit..." and osmeone else wrote "This photo reminds me of something :)" Gee, I got threaten for an account suspension just for saying that, when that was what my reaction to the photo is and some other person did also but he was less-explicit. If someone says that to myphoto, i'd look at it, and if i don't agree with it, i wouldn't complained to the administrators anyway (it was the COLORS of the paint that reminded of vomit.. it's not like I was insulting him, in fact, vomit might be a good challenge topic). But this is DPC, where sensitive people reign and any criticism would be seen as "trolling" or "egotistic". I guess people here haven't ever had an arts teachers (which the best of them are brutally honest to the point where you'd think they're just cursing you for no reason :)), and thus they take EVERYTHING personally, this includes the reaction people got with GeneralE's comment and said "John's integrity is this and that", when he didn't even question it. he just questions the validity of having examples and outtakes being shown before the challenge begins voting, that's all.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Is that really what they're doing? Something sleazy? I guess I never noticed, or I'm naive.
Seems like all the pre-outtake threads I've seen people have disclaimed that the shot is totally different from their entry.
And I think the reaction GE got wasn't so much to the philosophy of what he is proposing - just that John was trying to do that. Because, again, seriously, why would he have to? He never did before. He has a decent track record. I'd say that about anyone with a good rep, too, not just someone popular.....
Originally posted by paganini:
You know as well as I do people have been using this type of topic discussions to "test the water" on a given challenge. Such as "Here's my example", etc. They want to get reaction as to what the voters would think of it, RATHER, than what THEY think of it. I think that's what GeneralE is referring to -- since people can't show their images in the current challenge, why would an example be different? It's all about getting reaction to the photo and then submit the one you think will do better than the one that you originally given as an example (which is usually the photo that you like most or you wouldn't shown it). Now John may not be participating in the challenge, but there are other similar discussions in the past where the intent WAS to get the reaction before the voting begins (including the classic 3-4 photo posts and asking people which one they like most) -- that's what GeneralE is talking about. But boy, what a reaction he gets when he mentions it.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
you totally failed to read this part of my original post apparently :
"I'm still not really clear as to what people are afraid of about all this. as others have said, 'i need feedback on a picture i want to enter' is totally different from 'here's a picture im not going to enter that's related'. is it that they might double cross everyone and enter it anyway? if that's the case, it would almost certainly be a victim of backlash voting. " |
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05/24/2003 03:20:24 AM · #69 |
My comment to David's photo, even he said it wasn't being mean, but everyone else in the primadonna group thought it was :) I find that to be really funny in fact. It was an honest comment and then people just jumped on it for no reason. I said the same thing to another photo about how he adjusted the hue for the stem of the flowers so taht it appears blue as what I consider as unethical representation of nature. Geez, have we sunk to the level that any criticism automatically = troll?
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Originally posted by paganini:
Boy, that Zen comment must still be reeling in your head, even now. |
not really .. i just see you constantly wasting people's time, energy, and blood pressure with frivolous arguments that don't seem to be rooted in anything constructive. most recently david's picture. and that just isn't right. you don't affect me, but other people need to know not to waste their time responding to your trolls.
i've learned now through experience that you're not really interested in making the world a better place - you just want to fight and get attention. so whenever i see a post by you that's a huge sucking void, i'm sort of obligated to respond to it, for the sake of the poor person you're tormenting :). |
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05/24/2003 03:21:05 AM · #70 |
Well, if i like any of them, i'll let you know.
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Originally posted by paganini:
You know as well as I do people have been using this type of topic discussions to "test the water" on a given challenge. Such as "Here's my example", etc. |
Wish these weren't already in my portfolio
Branding Chute
or this Buffalo White Out
or this Gazebo Wait that was in a challenge already
or this Always Watching
or this Angel Arch
OH YEAH!!!
DISCLAIMER: These photos were all taken before this challenge was even thought of. They are just examples of Duotones. Thank You and Good Night
tracy |
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05/24/2003 03:24:00 AM · #71 |
i think people thought it (your comment) was so un-related to his picture (David's). i still think it's pretty unrelated. but the way you said it, it was like you were accusing him of this big horrible crime. And THAT'S what people react negatively to. like i said before, communication style counts for a LOT.
like you said 'paint looks like vomit.' Even if i think that, i don't say that. i have to think of a different way to communicate it without crushing the person and making them hate me and not listen to my criticism. like 'this paint doens't look so appealing' would convey it without alienating that person. if they wanted more specific feedback after that, then i MIGHT hint that it resembled vomit ... maybe ... if then ..
i think you might have a lot of positive to give, but if you dont communicate in a way that doesnt alienate people, then it's wasted.
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 03:27:05.
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05/24/2003 03:25:25 AM · #72 |
This whole thread has become completely silly and utterly useless.
Please don't feed the troll. Remember folks, there are at least two people in every argument. |
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05/24/2003 03:29:43 AM · #73 |
you're right. most people on dpc are not used to being brutally criticized. maybe if they could handle it, they would grow faster.
but we'll never know, because for better or for worse, on this site, sensitivity and tact count :)
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05/24/2003 03:36:06 AM · #74 |
This is where I disagree -- if you don't like something, just tell them. Why do everyone have to be so sensitive? It's arts, and therefore, if something you don't like, you tell them straight up.
I didn't mean the photo that has the vomit color as BAD, i just said it reminds of vomit on canvas (which btw, many modern artists have done.... though some are with feces).
Would they prefer a comment like "I like it. 1" instead? it's politically correct and sends the same message. And in reality, the vomit photo i gave an average score to, which is hardly the same as getting 1's and 2's without comments. It looks like that's the only way I'd have to do without getting in trouble.
Like I said before, people here haven't really had an art teacher or music teacher with brutal honest reviews of their stuff. If they did, they wouldn't take it personally.
Enough of this, i am off to finishing up something to be sent for publication. More, um, productive use of my time?
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i think people thought it was so un-related to his picture. i still think it's pretty unrelated. and the way you said it, it was like you were accusing him of this big dishonest crime. that's what people react to. like i said before, communication style counts for a LOT.
like you said 'paint looks like vomit.' Even if i think that, i don't say that. i have to think of a different way to communicate it without crushing the person and making them hate me and not listen to my criticism. like 'this paint doens't look so appealing'. |
Message edited by author 2003-05-24 03:36:57. |
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05/24/2003 04:04:15 AM · #75 |
(The tiny voice in the background)--
I joined DPChallenge because I like taking pictures and seriously want to learn to improve. I think this is a very enjoyable way to see other's work, and to have other people help me with my shots. Seriously though, we don't compete for money, we compete for the FUN of it because we all enjoy our hobby obviously, or we wouldn't be here! There's no reason to bash other people's work simply because you don't like it. Constructive criticism is what it's all about. How is a comment like "it reminds me of vomit" going to help a beginner out in any way?! You could rephrase that comment without too much thought...
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