| Author | Thread |
|
|
07/10/2005 12:53:47 PM · #1 |
DPC Mentorship ΓΆ€“ Rules of the Road
Group: Basics/Theory
Mentor: Olyuzi & Deapee
Students: pidge, rjkstesch, jpochard, puzzled, cpanaioti, groggyfroggy
NON-MEMBERS PLEASE READ, TOO:
1. If you are not an active member of this mentorship group, please feel free to follow this thread. It is not intended to be exclusionary - we hope everyone can learn from it.
2. If you are not an active member of this group but have a question or comment, please send it directly to the moderator by Private Message. The moderator will either answer you directly or post your comment and their response to the thread. Thank you for understanding that we are trying to keep these groups small and on-topic. If this experiment takes off, we plan to start more groups to try to accommodate as many people as we can.
3. Mentors are volunteers with jobs and/or families. They're human too, and may make mistakes on occasion. If you feel the burning need to criticize them, point out a mistake, or point out your own infinately greater knowledge in they subject they are teaching, please do so in a PM to the mentor, not in this thread.
4. Have fun learning!
P.S. To see updated group information, see my profile.
Message edited by author 2005-07-12 16:53:01. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 01:55:17 PM · #2 |
Hello everyone and welcome to Basics/Theory. I'm Olyuzi one of the co-mentors along with deapee (who I'm thrilled to be working with in teaching this). I hope I"m up to the task of meeting your expectations.
I view this course to have two components: a. using your camera and equipment, and b. general theories and ideas of what photography is.
I was thinking that it would be a good idea to use the Chinese restaurant approach to this course: each week take one subject from column a and one from column b and concentrate on those subjects, moving on to others the following week. For example, first week we could take on: a. how a digital camera works and b. general photography.
Here's a short list of some of the topics that I am considering covering:
-exposure: f-stops and shutter speeds
-ISO
-White balance
-focusing techniques
-metering methods
-flash modes
-file types
-noise in digital images
-sharpening and usm
I was thinking that along with discussing these topics we could have some field exercises and posting of images as examples.
Nothing is written in stone and I would love to hear some of your ideas for what you would like to learn, and how you would like for this forum to be structured, if you want a stucture at all, or feel that a more informal question & answer forum would suit your needs better. I"m by no means an expert, but have done a lot of reading. I invite my co-mentor, or any member of this group, to please chime in as they feel the need. If I'm wrong about something or you have a difference of opinion, please feel free to express it, my feelings will not be hurt.
Would love to hear more from everyone about this course.
PS I will be online later on this evening. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 03:41:33 PM · #3 |
Awesome!! I'm having a really busy day here...so just checking in. I'm looking forward to working with all of you and co-mentoring with Olyuzi who I'm sure has a lot of great stuff to offer. Be back later.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 03:55:07 PM · #4 |
Olyuzi and deapee,
Thanks for offering your time and knowlege to help us! I think we can combine both the structure of specific topics addressed by the mentors, and then remain open to any questions the "students" may have. I really like the idea of "field work", which in my opinion is the best way to really learn what is being taught.
Many times, I'll come up with a photo I like without really knowing why I like it, or why I made the decisions I did about taking the shot. I'm looking forward to backtracking a bit to get a better handle on the basics of shooting digitally and photography in general. Kind of like math...the basics I think are very important in being successful as you progress to more complicated and sophisticated equations. Just my .02. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 04:39:51 PM · #5 |
hi gang,
I'm really looking forward to this, too. It sounds like you've already put a lot of thought into ideas here, Olyuzi. Of the things on your list, metering methods and flash modes sound especially interesting since I just got a flash for my camera. I bought it in Japan and haven't been able to find the manual for it in English yet, but I think I've figured out pretty much already - it works, at least.
I always shoot RAW in manual mode. It's not that I'm trying to be cool or anything, it's just that that is the only way I know how to shoot :-) I have a bunch of non-digital lenses - auto doesn't work with many of them - so that's why it's manual instead of auto for me.
One aspect of "the basics" I hope to learn more about here is composition. Rule of thirds, light, less business in images, etc. I think Deapee has a good eye for composition. Will we get assignments soon? Looking forward to it.
Also: I'm going camping for two weeks in Norway, leaving next Saturday (the 16). Not sure if I'll be able to access the internet, although I will bring my computer with me. Just wanted to let all of you know, so you won't think I've suddenly quit or something. I'll be here daily until we leave, though.
Thanks again! |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 05:12:02 PM · #6 |
Your ideas sound good, Oly...I also think that some sort of hands-on thing is the best way to learn.
In order to effectively mentor or teach you folks, I think we're going to need some sort of list of questions or ideas that you guys have. Then, Oly and myself can come up with some sort of strategy to put everything into effect.
So, if you have any questions, or anything in particular you would like covered, please make a little list. If you're out in the field and you notice something on your LCD, or a question pops into your head, write it down and remember to add that to the list.
Composition is also a very big thing in photography (and I believe we should go over that as well) -- without it, you're not effectively presenting your image to the viewer. The viewer should always have some sort of direction in where you want them to look...don't let them choose that themselves.
---
After that's all handled, I suppose we can split some topics between Oly and myself. I intend to do a little write-up on whatever topics I will have appointed to me.
In the mean time, if you have a question, please ask. Or if you, like Judy said, have a photo that you like, but just can't put your finger on why, put it up so we can all look at it.
---
One more point...I am here to learn as well. We are all going to learn as a group. If any of you disagree with something I say, or an opinion I have, please let me know. If one of you 'students' has something you want to add, please do...believe me, I'll probably be learning as much from this as every one of you as well.
I'm looking foward to it.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 05:13:59 PM · #7 |
Oh..and don't pay any attention to my signature where it says "It's not about the light, but about the shadows" -- for all intents and purposes, EVERYTHING in photography REVOLVES around the light. ;)
edit: It's just that, without the shadows, the light would be rather borring.
Message edited by author 2005-07-10 17:15:22.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 06:17:23 PM · #8 |
I am just checking in to let everyone know I am hear and ready to learn. I basically know nothing and have a lower grade camera so I am hoping I can still learn these things. I have seen some really great pictures from DPC'ers with my same kind of camera so I hope it helps me to get better. Thanks
Roni |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 06:40:40 PM · #9 |
| I'm checking in and looking forward to being a part of this group. I really like the idea of field work. Although i "know" alot of the basics, I find I'm not using them automatically, or else managing to remember 1 or 2 and forget the others. Practice with feedback will be of great help. I also have holes in my knowledge. It will be great to work on those holes. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 07:02:51 PM · #10 |
Rebecca, welcome.
Just curious why the settings on this shot: 
f/19, ISO 800 at a shutter speed of 1/60 sec.
Just curious, I'm not picking in the least bit. Just gaining general knowledge here.
Which brings us to another interesting point that could be considered basic...hyperfocal distance.
So far we have...
-exposure: f-stops and shutter speeds
-ISO
-White balance
-focusing techniques (including hyperfocal distance)
-metering methods
-flash modes
-file types
-noise in digital images
-sharpening and usm
-composition
---
I have decided to use your photo for a more in-depth review...hopefully we can all learn from it.
If anyone else is interested in having a shot with something that they feel might be interesting or could teach a lesson, please put a link to it -- But please, include your camera settings such as ISO, shutter speed, Aperture, and any other settings you may have chose or decide to list.
edit: anyway...I found it easier to just do a small write-up on focusing distance. I'm assuming you wanted the largest possible DOF on your tower shot.
Message edited by author 2005-07-10 19:37:12.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 07:37:22 PM · #11 |
FOCUSING TECHNIQUES
Hrmm...where to start. I figure that in this short write-up, I will explain a little bit about current camera focusing systems and methods, when to use what, and my opinions on such methods.
First of all, I'm sure you all are aware that in your camera, there are probably two settings for focus. One will be something along the lines of AF-S and the other named AF-C. AF-S stands for AutoFocus Single, and AF-C is AutoFocus Continuous -- you may also hear them called Single-Servo or Continuous-Servo. For the purposes of understanding, they all mean the same thing.
AF-S will focus on your subject, and usually give you some sort of indicator that focus has been locked. This indicator can usually be changed to your preference in most cameras from a flash through the viewfinder, or, like on the d70, you can program it to give a small audible beep as well. I like to hear the little beep, personally, but that's a matter of preference. On most cameras, you cannot take a picture in this mode until focus has been locked.
AF-C will focus on your subject and track it -- as it moves toward or away from you and your camera. Most newer cameras have this mode available and this mode is EXTREMELY fast. It is very easy to underestimate the ability of your camera's AF system, and try manual focus, but, and I speak only from experience on my d70, it is surprisingly fast and incredibly accurate. In this mode, there is usually no flash to indicate focus and no audible beep will be heard. When you see that your subject is in focus (or sometimes hope that it is -- which it usually is) just press the trigger the rest of the way down, and it will fire without a doubt.
--
Now that we have that down, go try the settings on your camera. See how it works, and go get a feel for it. If you have not read up on that on your particular camera, it is a very valuable section in your owner's manual and I highly suggest reading and understanding how your camera's system works exactly.
--
HYPERFOCAL DISTANCE
The hyperfocal distance is the distance in which your camera and lens focus at, at a given f-stop, to have everything from a certain point to infinity acceptably sharp.
The hyperfocal distance is a very important basic of photography. Unfortunately, not many people know what it is because of such advanced AF systems are on today's cameras.
This method will most often be used with your camera in Manual focus setting. Some cameras focus differently than others, but SLR's have a ring that is turned on the lens. Although it is used in manual setting, when you are trying to use it, it still very much applies while the camera is focusing for you. If you understand the hyperfocal distance, you will better understand what comes out of your camera and better understand how to get what you are looking for from your camera for a given situation.
Without overlapping into Depth of Field and F-Stops, I will assume we all know at least what DOF is and at least a little bit about an F-Stop.
Search google for 'depth of field calculator' and one will pop up. Basically, what you're striving for is to see how different focal lenghts and apertures affect your acceptable range of sharpness.
For example, at 18mm, and f/9 -- focus your camera at an object that is about 5 feet away. This will give everything from around 2 feet to infinity an acceptable level of sharpness. Obviously, when doing street photography, this is a technique you will want to use. That way, you can just put your camera to your eye, compose, and fire away -- and not worry about having to wait for the camera to focus or be bothered by getting your subject at your selected AF point.
Now, as you change your focal length, to say 70mm at f/9, if you keep your lens focused at 5 feet, only everything between 4.6 feet and 5.4 feet will be in focus.
--
A NOTE ABOUT CALCULATING WITH D-SLR's
Everyone knows about the crop factor on a DSLR. If you don't, here's a quick primer. The sensor on your DSLR (unless you have a 1dsmkII) is smaller than that of a 35mm film. Most Nikons need to multiply their lens focal length by 1.5, Most Canon users by 1.6 because the image that comes through the lens is the size of 35mm film -- but not all of it will fall on the sensor because it is smaller.
Whether the image is a crop of the original, or not, the image that is coming through the lens, is still the same. 18mm is 18mm is 18mm. When in actuality, you are getting the effect of a 27mm lens when you multiply it by 1.5, that doesn't matter when calculating hyperfocal distance -- because, like I said, the light that is coming through the lens is still the same either way.
Of course, that part can be argued, and rightfully so. I find it very confusing but after extensive research into the subject, and some testing on my part, and finding others who agree with that, I believe that to be so, and it has never failed me in the field.
-------------------------
Hopefully that was a good read for you. If I skipped anything or forgot about anything, please let me know. If you have any questions, please list them.
Surely, there are other things that affect focusing or your camera might have this feature or that feature, but for the basics, those are the options. I threw hyperfocal distance in there because I feel it's important and should be a fundamental learned by all.
Obviously, I cannot cover everything. I am not a writer heh. If you want to search google for anything, go for it. There is a wealth of knowledge out there on the internet. But before you start believing anything, or even anything that I've said if you're a skeptic, find multiple sources.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 08:35:17 PM · #12 |
Hi, letting you know I'm here and ready to go. Terribly busy today, but will have a bit mroe time this weekl. I've done a quick read of the info given so far, and will come back and study it more. Already, thanks deapee and olyuzi!
Cheers
Edit: For me, I'm most curious how to use this metering thing and white balance stuff. Completely clueless.
Message edited by author 2005-07-10 20:42:37. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 09:25:41 PM · #13 |
Olyuzi present and accounted for! Please let me catch up on the few pages of reading in this thread to see what's going on. I hope you all had a great Sunday, as I did.
On my outing today I thought I would add a couple of other topics to explore...composition and workflow. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 09:53:39 PM · #14 |
Great write up on focusing, Deapee...Not sure I completely understand hyperfocal distance and how to use it. Can you give some examples of how to apply it in the field?
Just curious, as a group, do you want to start with more basic stuff, such as workflow and how a digital camera captures an image, or do you want to jump right in to the nuts and bolts of different topics?
Oly |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 10:18:37 PM · #15 |
I'm not sure where to start. I just saw that photo and thought about hyperfocal distance for some reason, and had some time on my hands. I guess we need some guidance from our 'students' -- where would you guys like to start? What should we do first? It would be nice to get a decent understanding of everyone's current skill levels.
How about this...
Do you know:
What is an aperture?
How aperture is associated with DOF?
What shutterspeed should be used for different situations?
What ISO is, and how it affects shutterspeed and/or noise?
Then, I guess..would you be interested in learning about sharpening -- why it is that we have to sharpen our images or how to properly sharpen them? Obviously, metering methods -- although this is going to vary widely from camera to camera. I can't even remember how the rebel did it -- we could give examples of the basic metering modes though and when to use what you know?
-----
Anyway...hyperfocal distance would be used in an instance as the following...
Now, this might be encroaching upon something not so 'basic' about photography, I'm not sure. I need to be told if this is too much to start with.
Say there is a building that is 200 feet away. And you set your zoom lens to 50mm f/4.5 and autofocus on your subject -- your effective range of acceptable sharpness is going to be from 46 feet infront of you to infinity. Now that's fine, but say there's an object that is 35 feet from you that is also going to be included -- at your autofocus setting, that object is not going to be acceptably sharp.
If you knew that the hyperfocal distance for 50mm, f/4.5 was 61 feet, you could get acceptably sharp images from 30 feet to infinity.
I'm not saying that people should memorize exactly what the distances are...but you should learn them for the range of your lenses...if not now, at least remember to learn it in the future.
--
For example...I know that my main lens is 18-70mm f3.5-4.5
* I know that at 18mm, f/9 I can focus at 4 feet and have everything in focus from 2 feet to infinity.
* I know that if the lighting is bad, I can use f/3.5 at 18mm, focus at 10 feet, and everything from 5 feet to infinity will be in focus.
Likewise, the other extreme (70mm) in this lense's case, should be learned as well -- and it's ok to make a rough estimation when you're in the field.
-------------
I feel this might be over the top the more I think about it. Just know that there is a distance. Don't try to learn all that now -- just remember to learn it in the future.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 10:31:32 PM · #16 |
I for one am ready to learn and start from the beginning, Aperture is a fine start for me. If that is OK with everyone else. I could stand to learn everything.
Thanks Roni |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 10:36:54 PM · #17 |
Hi Deapee...agree with you totally about needing to know the skill and knowledge levels of the group members and what they want to learn.
As for Hyperfocal distances, how did you know the numbers for your lenses? Do the lenses come with a chart that you keep on hand and check distances with aperatures? I can see how to apply it now, just not sure of where you get the numbers from. Is there a formula for figuring it out?
Great start, btw...You are very knowledgeable! |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 10:45:41 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Hi Deapee...agree with you totally about needing to know the skill and knowledge levels of the group members and what they want to learn.
As for Hyperfocal distances, how did you know the numbers for your lenses? Do the lenses come with a chart that you keep on hand and check distances with aperatures? I can see how to apply it now, just not sure of where you get the numbers from. Is there a formula for figuring it out?
Great start, btw...You are very knowledgeable! |
Search for Depth of Field calculator on google.
this one seems to work for me...
//www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
--------------------------
I was thinking...I think this approach that I started isn't a good one. I think we should just teach from square one. Basics first, then move on to give the 'students' something to look toward after they 'graduate' this basics/theory program you know?
It's like when you go to school, or college, the teacher teaches from a set program that they have. We need to come up with a program and go from there. Divide it into chapters or whatever...and come up with exercises, and examples too, you know.
Save everything you write though...as it will definately be used for the next 'class' you know?
And we can maybe organize it into a DPC Learn menu item and they could impliment it that way...then with the next group of students, they can just ask us questions they would have you know?
-------
I think this way (with a set program) makes the best sense. Otherwise, some will learn, some will not.
I understand some of you may already know a lot ... and some little to non. For the purpose of this 'course' we will assume that you know nothing.
Sound good?
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:07:23 PM · #19 |
I think that starting with basics that would apply to ANY photography...digital or film, is probably a good place to start. Basics of shutter and aperature priority, manual and auto settings, composition, exposure, ISO's. I would not be the least bit insulted or bored with starting from the very basics. "This is a camera." LOL
I would personally, eventually like to know much more about lens selection and uses on an DSLR at some point. That will be my next step up as a camera, and I really have no idea what the numbers mean in a practical way. What's a "fast" lens? Why is it important? Why are there such huge price differences in lenses with relatively similar specifications and is the price difference worth it? In knowing the type of photography I do the most, I think only I can really choose which lenses will work best for me to start out with...but to do so intelligently I need to learn much!
Message edited by author 2005-07-10 23:08:05. |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:18:09 PM · #20 |
This sounds great to me. I really want to thank you guys for volunteering your time to do this for people like me. Thanks Agian
Roni |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:22:37 PM · #21 |
OK cool, thanks for the input.
Also, thanks for bearring with us durring this cluster of a 'class' we're having here. It might take a little, but we're going to get some order going here -- we're all test subjects here. But, and I'm speaking for Oly here as well, we will definately see to it that what you guys want to learn, you will learn.
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:28:40 PM · #22 |
Since the consensus so far is to start with the basic basics...lol...how does it sound to everyone if the topics we started off with were:
a. How a digital camera works
and
b. general workflow
???
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:36:34 PM · #23 |
Sounds fine to me, anything to help me understand so that someday I will be able to take a photo in manual mode and know what it is I am doing and why I am doing it.
Roni |
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:39:23 PM · #24 |
I'll take how a digital camera works for $100 please. Actually, I'll handle that one if you want the other...lemme know. Do you get the PM's I send you oly?
|
|
|
|
07/10/2005 11:56:23 PM · #25 |
Deapee...just getting to your pm's now...
btw, hope you don't mind, but I ok'd for two new members to join us here in basics...
Cbalck and jsayerle |
|
