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07/06/2005 03:53:24 PM · #1 |
I have been through a great number of the images in the circle challenge and overall am very unimpressed. Greater emphasis is being placed on submitting something that soley meets the challenge topic rather than a well prepared and creative photo. This may be part of the reason why these challenges get so cluttered. 'Voting' on alot of these images does nothing more than to encourage mediocre challenge submissions. Simply far too many are satisfied on entering something that even they would hesitate hanging on their wall.
Curious as to why many of the "legacy" DPC photgraphers are submitting to a fewer number of challenges. I suspect it likely their talent seeks better nurturing than can be provided here. Alot of DPC originated talent is seeking more suitable venues where to display their work and it is unfortunate that this site is not taking steps to keep those relationships here.
Until something is done to address this, it will be hard to justify renewing my membership when I can get the same level of disatisfaction for free.
I expect my rant to be blasted though I'm certain that I am not the only person who shares this "politically incorrect" view.
Blast away. |
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07/06/2005 04:22:43 PM · #2 |
Hi Ivo,
I have no interest in blasting you, but I do have an interest in doing whatever I can to keep you and all legacy DPCers around for as long as possible. Of course I had to take a look at your profile page when I read your post. Clearly, you are not only very talented and knowledgeable about this hobby that we all share, but the comments you've left other participants look very helpful and positive.
As a worse-than-mediocre member, I want you to stay. I want you to tell me my shots are mediocre (or worse) when they are, and I want you to tell me what I can do to have more interesting images, more technically correct images, and teach me as much as you can. That's why I'm a member. I'm sure I can ask for opinions and help at other sites, but I trust and appreciate the talent (AND non-talent) that's here.
I love the fact that there are enough low quality images here that none of us need to feel 'self'-conscious about risking low scores.
I love the fact that there are several active professional photographers here who tell us that our images do nothing for them - and then they tell us in detail why not.
I love that the very talented photographers here will offer their opinions not only to you (another talent), but even to me, someone with absolutely nothing more than a burning interest in seeing if it's possible to teach myself to be better than mediocre at photography.
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wants to learn from you. I'm sorry that you're dissatisfied by "my" mediocrity, but please don't leave. |
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07/06/2005 04:36:09 PM · #3 |
...I second puzzled's comments...
I have no interest in winning a challenge at this time. With talent like ivo, nico_blue, and others, there is no possible way I could win anyway.
I truly love every constructive comment I can get, both on my challenge entries and otherwise. If this site were more oriented to cater to the professionals, there'd be no point in my being here.
That said, perhaps there is something DPC could do to keep the "pro's" interested. Perhaps a challenge only for those who have ribboned in the past, or achieved a 6.5 or higher? Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like that idea. Members-only 'voting', as well. It would serve two purposes - it would probably cut SOME of the top end out of the regular challenges, allowing "the rest of us" to shine, and it would give the "cream of the crop" a chance to truly compete.
Just a thought.
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 16:41:14. |
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07/06/2005 04:43:36 PM · #4 |
| I think I may have not been clear. Considering that all entries are penned into one, two or three challenges, it leaves the owness upon the entrants to determine what is worthy of entry and what is not. This is a result of this site's growth outpacing the site administrators willingness to address growth pains. Like many, I feel that this the present structure of this site has fallen short in providing intermediate and advanced photgraphers nothing more than chat and frustration. The challenge in DP challenge is turned into DPchaos. I can understand how this sort of growth can be exciting for the owners but it comes at a cost. The cost is to either provide greater value or to lose subscribers. I have had alot of fun here and learned a great deal but I wish there was something here that would ignite further enthusiasm. This is not fault of the beginners but moreso the unwillingness of management address the needs of creative minds. |
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07/06/2005 04:59:39 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by aboutimage:
That said, perhaps there is something DPC could do to keep the "pro's" interested. Perhaps a challenge only for those who have ribboned in the past, or achieved a 6.5 or higher? Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like that idea. Members-only 'voting', as well. It would serve two purposes - it would probably cut SOME of the top end out of the regular challenges, allowing "the rest of us" to shine, and it would give the "cream of the crop" a chance to truly compete.
Just a thought. |
We had a 'Master's Challenge' last year which was a delight to behold...
My comment to Ivo would be that DPC seems to be in a transitionary period right now: many new faces appearing and some of them are producing great stuff. I suggest we see what pans out in the next few months.......
I would say, however, that the challenge topics have been disappointing of late and this is certainly putting me off entering. I think some thinking needs to go on to satisfy the full range of tastes. Ben |
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07/06/2005 05:05:39 PM · #6 |
I think the big problem is the digital camera is so affordable and trendy. Too many people buy a camera and instantly become photographers. I am in awe of the talent and wisdom of some of the members here and even if they are 15 years old or 80 I respect their opinions, words of encouragement and critiques.
This site is one of the best on the web so expect people to come and go and those who are true to the art will stay around and mentor those of us who aspire to be called a photographer.
Karen
edited because I did not proof read
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 17:08:07. |
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07/06/2005 05:19:25 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by khdoss:
This site is one of the best on the web so expect people to come and go and those who are true to the art will stay around and mentor those of us who aspire to be called a photographer. |
Oh my god.......is it that complicated??? It is not the people, mentors, camera fads, being true to the art, wing velocity of a swallow and so on. The darn thing needs a pretty serious tune up! They've got far too many people in a small small space. Either expand the site or put in measures to manage the site alot better.
By the way, this is very cleansing. ;-)
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07/06/2005 05:19:31 PM · #8 |
I think the solution is more harsh truthful comments and less softy feel good comments. If I put up crap in a challenge, tell me it's crap and I'll think twice about putting crap up next time. Don't butter me up and say the voters don't understand art and I really deserved a better score.
I agree with Ivo, too many people focus more on meeting the challenge and less on taking a great photo. My rule is I won't enter it in a challenge if I wouldn't hang it on my wall, regardless the challenge subject. Good photo first, meet the challenge second.
PS flame away on how the voters vote down if it doesn't meet the challenge and I'll flame back that crappy photos that meet the challenge do worse the good photos that don't meet the challenge.
PSS I'm not encouraging not meeting the challenge, just make sure you do it with a good photo.
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07/06/2005 05:30:23 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Good photo first, meet the challenge second. |
So when my boss asks for the blue binder, I should really bring him the red binder because the blue one is torn?
:-P
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07/06/2005 05:40:17 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by louddog:
Good photo first, meet the challenge second. |
So when my boss asks for the blue binder, I should really bring him the red binder because the blue one is torn?
:-P |
Nope.... you should bring him a piano... since it will broaden your horizons, enable you to bond, and surely fire up the embers of your soul that are screaming for you to fully display your musical genius.
That my friend would truly exemplify your creativity.
Ray. |
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07/06/2005 05:42:49 PM · #11 |
| The problem Ivo is addressing is that everyone is bringing him a blue folder and now he has so many blue folders he cant even see the piano. |
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07/06/2005 05:53:51 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
{snip} Curious as to why many of the "legacy" DPC photgraphers are submitting to a fewer number of challenges. {snip} |
I have a hypothesis. Members go through a learning curve. It goes something like this:
Stage 1: Work up enough courage to submit a first entry. Calm down after the comments and work up the courage to submit the next. Repeat until reasonably comfortable here.
Stage 2: Enter every challenge. Stretch the challenge definitions. Stretch the editing rules. Stretch for titles. Study the comments, the winning photos and gradually improve. Burn out a bit on the every challenge workload.
Stage 3: Enter fewer but more interesting challenges and work harder and better at perfecting the images submitted. Stretch for better composition, better and more interesting subjects, more subtle and effective post processing. Master the art and science of photography.
In short, I believe it is a natural progression that dervies from learning enough to be rightfully 'self' confident and investing that 'self' confidence and improved skils only in the things that interest you.
That's my point of view. I am sure there will be exceptions. What do you think? |
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07/06/2005 06:01:37 PM · #13 |
| I agree with Mr. Porter...It is the natural progression of things here at DPC |
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07/06/2005 06:04:35 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
The problem Ivo is addressing is that everyone is bringing him a blue folder and now he has so many blue folders he cant even see the piano. |
NO NO NO. The blue folder should never go on the piano but rather onto the mantle. Oh yeah.............maybe thats against the rules and come to think of it, would it be better if I viewed the blue folder with a CRT or an LCD monitor? That should make us all happier. B) |
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07/06/2005 06:12:20 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by louddog:
I think the solution is more harsh truthful comments and less softy feel good comments. If I put up crap in a challenge, tell me it's crap and I'll think twice about putting crap up next time. Don't butter me up and say the voters don't understand art and I really deserved a better score. |
I've been lucky enough to be the recipient of many awesome and helpful comments, most of them even politely written. None were offensive, for sure, and all were welcome.
Of concern to me personally is that of late, there have been a number of threads where members complain about the comments they receive. Some may have been legitimate, but I've gone back after challenges were over and seen where people were unfairly "flamed", taken out of context, and even misquoted. That, to me, is a shame. I'm even guilty of giving mostly "softy feel-good" comments recently to avoid public persecution.
As a community, perhaps part of the solution is to discourage negative comment threads. Threads like "Oh, I can't believe someone didn't get my perfect picture - what a simpleton..." etc. If our more seasoned members would jump in with voices of reason it might encourage more truthful comments, and increase the quality of submissions overall. |
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07/06/2005 07:01:29 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by louddog:
Good photo first, meet the challenge second. |
So when my boss asks for the blue binder, I should really bring him the red binder because the blue one is torn?
:-P |
Nope.... you should bring him a piano... since it will broaden your horizons, enable you to bond, and surely fire up the embers of your soul that are screaming for you to fully display your musical genius.
That my friend would truly exemplify your creativity.
Ray. |
I've just been schooled, thanks Ray! :-D
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07/07/2005 02:05:51 AM · #17 |
Hey Ivo - I just wanted to say that I get what you're saying now. Thanks for clarifying.
P.S. Even though this isn't at all what you're looking for, please please please feel free to leave honest comments about my mediocre images, okay? :-) |
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