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09/09/2002 09:53:19 PM · #1 |
Composition: Subject Placement, Cropping, Background 7 ,
Technical: Focus, Exposure, Lighting, Processing 6 ,
Appeal: Is it Interesting, Motivating, Etc.? 6 ,
Total Averaged Rating 6 .
I would like to know if any of you find this kind of critique helpful.
Personally, I am going to by marked down in a catagory, I would like to know why. Unless you think my photo is an 8,9, or 10, is you cannot give me something to improve on, why leave a comment?
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09/09/2002 10:25:05 PM · #2 |
It would be helpful to me because it would show how the _voter_ was thinking and why the came up with the score. IMHO: the voter here really gave you their time and energy by explaining to you how they voted.
There are times that you can't put your finger on what would improve a photo......that at you are just into giving your reasons.....not a book on each photo you vote for. It's not always possible to help someone with each photo. Also words don't come as to why we don't like certain things.
Don't take it to heart, just file it and go on. Hope this helps. Keep clicking!!!! Kee
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09/09/2002 10:25:26 PM · #3 |
Error.....error error
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/9/2002 10:27:07 PM.
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09/09/2002 10:26:18 PM · #4 |
This critique does not give detail in words... however, it does give you more than a single number score with no comment. It tells you what the author thinks about specific elements of your photo on a scale of 1 to 10.
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09/09/2002 10:31:32 PM · #5 |
Everybody has their method.
Me? I just make up my mind in my head..usually going back to the photos several times over the week of voting..especially the ones I really like. But I am sorta anal about remembering minutia anyway >:-D
I appreciate folks who take the time to think about a photo, regardless of their method.
I look at comments as more for the critic than the photographer..It helps them sorta figure things out in their head and thats cool. :-) |
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09/09/2002 10:53:11 PM · #6 |
I guess I should have written a little more in my first post. I realize that this take a lot of time. I know, I leave about 30 critiques per challenge. And yes, it does give some insight into how the score is given, but, there is also no reference. Appeal is definitely subjective, and hard to critique, and there are plenty of photos I do not leave comments on, becase I can not really tell them how to improve it.
But, how would you interepret this to improve in the future?
Don't worry, I am not bitter, and I am not getting down from this.
I am wondering though, is there something I need to learn from this, or is there something the author needs to learn to improve in the future?
Does that clear things up? I have acutally emaile the author about this, and now I want to know your opinions.
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09/09/2002 10:58:13 PM · #7 |
Zeiss, how much detail do you give in your comments?
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09/09/2002 11:51:28 PM · #8 |
You can look that up, but it depends on the photo. Usually just one or two points that need improvement, I am also trying to add what I like now.
I wish people would not get upset or defensive with me trying to learn.
I thought the purpose of the critiques was to learn to be better critics. I was taking that one step further. If everyone else can learn from this, than it is obviously just me that can't. I was only trying to stimulate a diaglogue.
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09/10/2002 12:03:26 AM · #9 |
Zeissman, I can see in everything you post right now that you're going through an interesting process of developing your ideas about photography, and questioning things. It's nice to see :). I don't expect we'll ever agree on much, but as long as you're thinking and questioning things then it's the best way to be and I'm happy for you!
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09/10/2002 12:17:35 AM · #10 |
Not to nitpick, but I have had 15 or so years of ideas about photography, I am not begining to reshape them. I have been in a bit of a vacuum until now. It is hard to get honest feedback when you are standing right next to the person looking at your work.
I feel I have a style I really like, but I would like to change improve it, to reach a larger audience, and also, I want to share my thoughts on others photos in as positive a manner as I can. I feel my knowledge exceeds my abalitiy.
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09/10/2002 02:30:43 AM · #11 |
Zeiss,
I do find that method (employed by at least two people I can think of) useful. It points to the weaker areas of the photo in the commenter's opinion. Also, since the name is available after voting is complete (and even during voting, in the instances of both commenters I am thinking of), it gives the photographer the opportunity to further contact the commenter for more helpful details.
In my experience, the comments of the others usually point out the very thing(s) that the scored comments vote low on. I.E., on my pencil shot, everyone (just about) disliked my lighting choice. So, when I saw the score for Exposure, Lighting, Processing, I wasn't surprised.
By the way, I especially like that this commenter puts: Appeal: Is it Interesting, Motivating, Etc.? as a criteria because that is what most people vote on anyway.
:-)
Dawn |
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09/10/2002 09:32:37 AM · #12 |
You guys are great! In addition to that statement I want to point out a casual observation. The DP participants are made up from people from all walks of life. Some of them do everything that the site has to offer, they submit wonderful pictures, intelligent comments, put together interesting and very helpful tutorials, vote on every picture, and offer pictures for others to critique when we are all waiting for the final moments of the ending challenge. There are others that don't feel comfortable with participating in the same ways as the first group. I presume that they are not as educated in the formalities of photography and or lack experience and confidence. They are here participating in a positive manner and are trying to improve their skills at the same time. Then there is a third group that basically live in their own little world and spend hours running around with a bad attitude and can't understand how the other two groups can have so damn much fun. I am sure that those with a defined skill can add to the three that I have pointed out, so lets just put them in a group too, the one that must improve upon every thing they see or read.
I won't express which group that I fall into, but I am HAVING FUN. I look forward to comments with my pictures as much as anyone else does and try to get as much good out of it as I can. For Mr. Ziessman, I want him to take a look at the comments that were left on my last entry.
Diana - 9/8/2002
Great shot thank you
lwhinzman - 9/7/2002
Great position--Did you duck?
artgalaxy - 9/5/2002
10 for bravery
11n - 9/5/2002
Whoa! nice photo! Just a bit of wasted space on the top. 7
mullany1957 - 9/4/2002
Are you nuts:?
Screwedred - 9/4/2002
Looks like you must be a Dick to be standing in front of a crop duster.
great shot
emorgan49 - 9/4/2002
And then what happened?.....great shot. Nicely balanced. A lot of good elements: the blurry prop, the foggy spray the rocky ditch. What more would I like?? Maybe richer colors? That plane could be yellowed up once the contest is over nad the restrictions are off/
Swashbuckler - 9/3/2002
Very cool! Isn't the plane missing the field a bit? I really like the almost stopped motion of the prop. Framing is wonderful. If I had one wish, it would be the plane was "doing" the middle of a field", but I'm not quibbling. Great job! Definate 10! Swash
andrewm - 9/3/2002
Great photo--wonderful tension--did you get covered with spray?--but it was worth it--andrewm
Karen Bryan - 9/3/2002
Did you get out of the way in time? This is a nice shot.
jsabbarton - 9/3/2002
This is an awesome shot - did you manage to get out of the way :o) If you managed to pose this I'd be surprised so it has to be a 10â€Â¦ Great shotingâ€Â¦
inspzil - 9/3/2002
I don't see how this fits the challenge. The shot isn't bad, but....
lumbardh - 9/3/2002
How did you get out of the way? :P Nice shot.
Jubei Kibagami - 9/2/2002
Did you get hit by the blast?
owennnn - 9/2/2002
you look like you're about to be herbicided yourself. This shot would have more punch if there was a person's facial expression upon looking up and seeing that thing coming, but in your case they were probably all smart enough to run for cover while you remained trying to get a ferw shots before fleeing
lionelm - 9/2/2002
Nice picture composition, framing, exposure, speed .. not an easy shot. other weeks : 6 or 7, this week : 4. Sorry I do not think this is a 'candid moment'. Congratulations for the shot anyway.
Paulo - 9/2/2002
cool! candid?
jmsetzler - 9/2/2002
This is an excellent shot... i think it's the only photo this week that doesn't feature a person that I'm giving a 10... great work :) = 10 - jmsetzler
Jessian97 - 9/2/2002
I'm nost sure what this has to do with a candid moment...
marcvg - 9/2/2002
It's a spectacular shot, and knowing that you might have been sprayed, I think you deserve a good vote. A picture of you running away would have made a sure winner :-).
=8 marcvg
shutterfly - 9/2/2002
this is a great shot!!! how long did u have b4 you had to jump away before getting all wet??? just wonderfull...10--shutterfly
DigiPique - 9/2/2002
Neat shot - good caption - hope you held your breath! Not sure how candid it is, though.
Morgan - 9/2/2002
I love the shot, very dramatic.
sjgleah - 9/2/2002
Doesn't do it for me as a candid image. More like p-journalism. I like it would rate it higher in a different challenge.... guess i need "unaware" people in a candid shot. 3 sjgleah
alansfreed - 9/2/2002
A *very* nice shot, I'll admit... but I don't think it meets the challenge in any way, shape or form. Now if you were able to capture the look on the pilot's face...
I knew when I entered it that it was outside of the box for the challenge. I also knew none of the duster's planes in my agricultural area flew themselves, and I could not pose the plane in flight, and the pilot didn't know I was going to be there to take his picture. Yes his picture, you just got to know that he knows he got his picture taken and has probably been checking the paper ever since.
I don't find it necessary to defend my way of leaving feedback on your picture, because the first two groups have done it for me.
Keep Shoot'n
Autool
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09/10/2002 09:39:01 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
I would like to know if any of you find this kind of critique helpful.
I find these comments extremely helpful. Not only because they spell out the area I might need to look closer at, but because I receive them. I thought I would compare them to the comments I've received from you, Z, but in 12 challenges, I haven't gotten one yet.
Please don't try to discourge those that are commenting.
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09/10/2002 09:41:13 AM · #14 |
| I think autool has exactly the right aproach--enjoy yourself--enjoy the great photography and the interesting challenges--enjoy the praise and the criticism--and learn--but one has to chuckle at some of the comments-- |
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09/10/2002 09:42:57 AM · #15 |
I don't know how many groups people fall into. I know people are individuals and cannot be classified easily and often exhibit different characteristics depending on the environment at any moment...chameleon-like :-)
I used to comment...and I may comment again..I dont know when that may happen...whenever the mood hits me again :-)
I am here for me though..I hope that doesnt sound too harsh or self centered. But if I wasn't having fun or didn't feel like I was being "challenged" I wouldn't be here. So when I do something here it's because I want to, or don't want to :-) Too many things in my life I GOTTA do...photography stuff is what I WANNA do. Its as simple as that :-)
I just figure while I am doing what I WANNA do I might as well be a reasonable site citizen in my overall attitude and some self control >:-)
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/10/2002 9:42:06 AM. |
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09/10/2002 10:43:26 AM · #16 |
I find giving numbers for 'Technique' 'Framing' dont help. I have no base numbers to compare them too, nor do they give any real insight as to what precisly was bad/good about my technique or framing.
I like to see comments that show some knowledge too. All those 'Great shot' (yeah, I wish) comments are all very nice, but dont say why it was liked or how I can improve.
What I really like to see are specific comments: E.g. 'Hold the camera straight', 'Take the lens cap off', 'Sell your camera NOW!'. |
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09/10/2002 10:43:29 AM · #17 |
Autool,
You already know what I think of your voting system, so I wont go into detail (for those that don't - I think this guys tops) :o)
What I want to know is - and judging by the comments, I'm not alone - how the hell did you get out of the way of that duster?
James |
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09/10/2002 12:05:02 PM · #18 |
Thanks to everyone that left comments.
It seems that the vast majority find this style helpful, maybe I will adopt a version if it.
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09/10/2002 01:04:42 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Thanks to everyone that left comments.
It seems that the vast majority find this style helpful, maybe I will adopt a version if it.
As some of you know, I have adopted a style pretty much copied from Autool. It is:
Composition -
Technical Aspects -
Meets Challenge -
Visual Impact / Originality –
Other suggestions –
Jim msp
I try to leave short comments when appropriate after a topic or two. I then leave a final score based on a mental average of the above, and weighted toward "visual impact":
10 = outstanding ( I want to frame it and hang it)
9 = excellent
8 = very good
7 = quite good
6 = more than sufficient, pretty good
5 = Average, good
4 = insufficient
3 = poor
2 = bad
1 = very bad
I have given only one 1 or 2 ones, and a lot of 10s.
My problem is a trade off of number of comments vs detail. I don't always have a lot of time to spend, so I probably average giving 25-35 comments per week. Last week it was none, as I was traveling. The week before about 50.
Unless I see a lot of posts wanting more detail, I will probably stick with the abreviated comments, eg, needs improved lighting, DOF, etc. |
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09/10/2002 01:06:13 PM · #20 |
Zeissman, you can vote your own way ... it's not a problem.
I appreciate the one from autools, I appreciate the one in words a little more but still I am happy he is doing it this way, and I am looking in its comment for the highest value and the lowest .... so I know what he liked and what he did not like that much.
Every system is valuable as long as it can bring something to the photographer and as long as it respectful.
I would not like everybody to comment the same way, I would not like to see a grid ... and like that it's different people, different ways.
I know I will not be able to comment for the next 2 weeks, I never commented them all , last week I tried to comment all the shot I think was great but not candid.
I like to read the comment on my picture
Lionel |
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09/10/2002 01:18:30 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by lionelm:
I appreciate the one from autools, I appreciate the one in words a little more but still I am happy he is doing it this way, and I am looking in its comment for the highest value and the lowest .... so I know what he liked and what he did not like that much.
Every system is valuable as long as it can bring something to the photographer and as long as it respectful.
I agree with this 100% :-)
The differences even in the critiques are interesting, definitely.
I've never been a big fan of very specific number systems..art is just is not that specific. I learned this when I could improve my grades in college art classes by talking to the professor and explaining my work. He would usually mark my work up and say "Alright, I expect greater clarity next time!"
Try doing that in Chemistry or Math class!
Numbers to art is like Enron to Andy Warhol >:-D Both are creative but one type gets you in jail! |
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09/10/2002 01:22:18 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by lionelm:
Zeissman, you can vote your own way ... <clip> I would not like everybody to comment the same way, I would not like to see a grid ... and like that it's different people, different ways.
<clip>
I like to read the comment on my picture
I agree whole-heartedly. It's not how folks comment, it's that they comment that makes my day. Although I am thinking I might try Autool's method once or twice, since I don't comment on nearly as many as I'd like... I think I will eventually work out some sort of hybrid, where I leave an autool style catagory comment on all images and more deapth where I'm inspired to and have the time for... |
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09/10/2002 01:31:24 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
You can look that up, but it depends on the photo. Usually just one or two points that need improvement, I am also trying to add what I like now.
I wish people would not get upset or defensive with me trying to learn.
I thought the purpose of the critiques was to learn to be better critics. I was taking that one step further. If everyone else can learn from this, than it is obviously just me that can't. I was only trying to stimulate a diaglogue.
I looked up a few of your comments from the candid challenge.. I won't post them here... These comments I saw didn't indicate to me that you were trying to learn anything or to constructively critique the photo either... I would have gotten defensive about those myself...
I think I could use some of your comments as a learning tool for critiques... some of them are great examples of how NOT to critique a photo. You seem to stab at the person in several that I read... How is that helpful or learning?
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09/10/2002 02:15:38 PM · #24 |
Okay...I've rolled my eyes long enough. The spirit of some of these posts is completely twisted. Critique critics? What is this, a witch hunt? To those of you attacking each other, step back and gain a little perspective...we put our photos out here for feedback...people are doing you a favor (for the most part) by offering comments. If you don't like or aren't satified with a comment...ignore it and move on. You'll surely get some feedback you appreciate from someone else.
I'm done....well almost. Sorry I couldn't hold my tongue any longer but I'm sick and tired of people moaning and whining about comments. This behavior doesn't exactly encourage people to offer honest commentary on the photos...seems counterproductive to what we're all trying to achieve here.
Have a great day and feel free to come blast me in chat :P
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09/10/2002 02:31:40 PM · #25 |
You are right John. I am trying to learn to make my comments more helpful, sometimes I get frustrated, and it shows.
I never held myself up as an example of how to critique positively, but, I do make an effort on most of the comments that I leave. I am pretty time constrained, so I have been leaving very short comments. Some of them probably sound disrespectful when I did not mean it that way, and some my have been disrespectful but shouldn't have been.
Here Are My Last 10 Comments Made...
One O' The Guys 9/9/2002
I agree James, I gave this a 9.
After a Shower 9/9/2002
Knowing that this is a self portrait changes things a bit. This is definitely a slice of life. I am sorry some were so rude and short sighted as they are. It is nice to see you can share so openly.
Between Hopes & Dreams 9/3/2002
the image quality of the man's face is very poor.
my turn next! 9/3/2002
focus is a little soft, but good image
For Rent: Desperate 9/3/2002
a tad on the overexposed side.
what are YOU looking at?? 9/3/2002
A little bit dark and fuzzy, but good framing and subject.
Eye Contact 9/3/2002
good juxtaposition. Too bad the sky is so blown out. This is one of my top- 20
The Tick Tock Diner - 1:30AM 9/3/2002
nice slice of life.
Watching Rain through the Window 9/3/2002
Nice, but I would have liked more face. one of the better shoots this week.
an old woman in the train 9/3/2002
This is what it is all about.
This is probably a sample of some of my better one's also.
Autool has a very consistant system, and I wanted to know what the rest think about it.
I am now adopting a version of it, but I am trying to leave a comment along with the score.
I thought it would be interesting to discuss such a consistant critiquing style, but I guess I went about it the wrong way.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by Zeissman:
[i]You can look that up, but it depends on the photo. Usually just one or two points that need improvement, I am also trying to add what I like now.
I wish people would not get upset or defensive with me trying to learn.
I thought the purpose of the critiques was to learn to be better critics. I was taking that one step further. If everyone else can learn from this, than it is obviously just me that can't. I was only trying to stimulate a diaglogue.
I looked up a few of your comments from the candid challenge.. I won't post them here... These comments I saw didn't indicate to me that you were trying to learn anything or to constructively critique the photo either... I would have gotten defensive about those myself...
I think I could use some of your comments as a learning tool for critiques... some of them are great examples of how NOT to critique a photo. You seem to stab at the person in several that I read... How is that helpful or learning?
[/i]
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/10/2002 2:35:44 PM.
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