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07/08/2003 02:32:48 PM · #751 |
I haven't seen that show yet, although it sounds familiar.
My brother sent me what was supposed to be a link to info on weapons of mass destruction. |
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07/09/2003 01:05:15 AM · #752 |
| And now at least some of the truth about the lies .... |
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12/04/2003 02:43:39 PM · #753 |
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12/04/2003 02:55:00 PM · #754 |
| In addition to today's story about the attempted bribery of a Member of Congress right on the House floor, here's a something to mull over as the election season revs up: Hack the Vote |
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12/04/2003 02:58:24 PM · #755 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
In addition to today's story about the attempted bribery of a Member of Congress right on the House floor, here's a something to mull over as the election season revs up: Hack the Vote |
Its the best democracy money can buy after all... |
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12/04/2003 03:49:48 PM · #756 |
Yes, highly shocking to find out that money and power has any influence on political clout...
...and on the thread's main theme, it's sure nice to know that Iraq is now clear of those weapons of mass destruction and that the people there have embraced regime change. The quality of life there certainly seems to have improved. It looks like the weapons of minor destruction were entirely overlooked, however. You have to actually go there to get shot I guess. Well done George.
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12/04/2003 03:55:25 PM · #757 |
since you must have just gotten back from the warfront with such an insightful commentary as that, maybe you should try and file it with the New York Times. you might get lucky with them
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12/04/2003 04:00:54 PM · #758 |
The fact that this thread had nearly 800 messages so far shows quite clearly how much the topics discusses in here are felt by many people in the world.. even if in different ways.
I will try to resume what I believe are the most common (and important) feelings, even when people are unaware to have them.
[1] 9/11 achieved a terrible milestone in terms of evil. Thousands were killed in very few hours.. what people is thinking is: next time will be many thousands and then after millions.
[2] There have always been victims but what makes 9/11 a terrible milestone is the size and speed of the event and, possibly more importantly, the fact which was given out to the whole world LIVE by the media. In a society which relies strongly on advertising and propaganda even the everyday man cannot stop thinking in the back of his mind that it was a show setup on purpose and the purpose, as usual, was the oldest one: Money (regardless where it comes from and where it goes).
[3] Considering all the facts, we are left with two very different but in both cases enormously disgusting options: (a) it was all perfectly planned and therefore we just "sold out" victims to achieve some sort of global effect, (b) the uncompetence of burocracy achieved so high levels of inefficiency that nothing is under control (and that would certainly drive things to an immane escalation in a relative short while).
This, IMHO, is what people feels in different ways and what has ultimately driven most of them to write in this thread.
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12/04/2003 04:06:44 PM · #759 |
Having a friend who has relatives over there (Iraq), the news does not represent the truest picture of what is going on.
On Micheal Moore, he is the leftist version of Rush Limbaugh, entertaining but you cant take his insights to heart |
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12/04/2003 04:27:33 PM · #760 |
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Yes, highly shocking to find out that money and power has any influence on political clout...
...and on the thread's main theme, it's sure nice to know that Iraq is now clear of those weapons of mass destruction and that the people there have embraced regime change. The quality of life there certainly seems to have improved. It looks like the weapons of minor destruction were entirely overlooked, however. You have to actually go there to get shot I guess. Well done George. |
What weapons of mass destruction? The only thing I heard they found was one freakin old lab in a semi trailer. That's it. No scuds, no caches of chemical or biological weapons. If they had found them it would have been plastered all over the news. Should have listened to the UN and Hanz Blix.
You also have to realize that the spin on the whole thing changed when they couldn't find the tragetted weapons of mass destruction. The tone turned from saving the world from these supposed horrible weapons to "liberating" Iraq from crazy Saddam. So now you have a country free of weapons of mass destruction that we're not there and that has had every major infrastructure blown to smithereens. Better living conditions my eye.
I'm still proud that our Prime Minister didn't cave into US pressure to send our military to Iraq. The US and Great Britain broke the eggs. Let them wipe it off their faces themselves.
Message edited by author 2003-12-04 16:29:01. |
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12/04/2003 04:27:54 PM · #761 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
[2] There have always been victims but what makes 9/11 a terrible milestone is the size and speed of the event and, possibly more importantly, the fact which was given out to the whole world LIVE by the media. In a society which relies strongly on advertising and propaganda even the everyday man cannot stop thinking in the back of his mind that it was a show setup on purpose and the purpose, as usual, was the oldest one: Money (regardless where it comes from and where it goes).
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I have never thought that. If you honestly feel this way, it is a very paranoid, and unfortunate life you live.
Message edited by author 2003-12-04 16:28:35.
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12/04/2003 04:35:34 PM · #762 |
On WMD even the scientist who state there was no ongoing activity say the tried to mislead people into believing there was. Maybe their bluff worked just a little to well..
The same scientist will state that most information was being kept to restart any "chemical or nuclear labs" as soon as sanctions were lifted. Part of the UN resolution they agreed to for stopping the intial gulf war was they would not have any forbidden programs. So if we didnt go now we would have had to do it later to a stronger more dangerous meglomaniac |
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12/04/2003 04:36:50 PM · #763 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
Originally posted by glimpses:
[2] There have always been victims but what makes 9/11 a terrible milestone is the size and speed of the event and, possibly more importantly, the fact which was given out to the whole world LIVE by the media. In a society which relies strongly on advertising and propaganda even the everyday man cannot stop thinking in the back of his mind that it was a show setup on purpose and the purpose, as usual, was the oldest one: Money (regardless where it comes from and where it goes).
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I have never thought that. If you honestly feel this way, it is a very paranoid, and unfortunate life you live. |
I don't think I did express any certainity about the things I mentioned.
In fact, I called them feelings.
And I think that people, not just me, has those feelings because since we were born what we really have learned in this world are all cause-effect relationships. Then, of course, we have added Santa Claus (and many other Saints on top of that) just to make it possibly more lively (even if, in the end, religion has historically been an excellent reason to justify massacres..).
It's just about how much aware we want to be really... |
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12/04/2003 04:45:04 PM · #764 |
this is usually a subject i dive ass over elbows into, but in this case im going to simply post my personal view of our president,
"the leader of the free world" |
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12/04/2003 05:52:23 PM · #765 |
That's just it...there were never any WMDs. There seems to be a new spin every week. I nearly gagged when I heard quotes from Bush's address in his brief visit to Baghdad, saying that the troops there were doing their best to wipe out terrorism. This was never supposed to be about terrorism, but even Bush seems to get caught up in his state department's cloudy rhetoric. Turns out that even though Iraqis really didn't seem to like Saddam Hussein all that much, it doesn't mean that they're not going to fight if a country invades their nation. They don't like that too much either, apparently. Even if the intentions were humanitarian more than economic or political (which I don't believe) the arrogance behind the whole operation is staggering, and the poor old GI is paying the price for it.
Ah well...if it gets boring nowadays, at least it's not on every channel.
James.
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Yes, highly shocking to find out that money and power has any influence on political clout...
...and on the thread's main theme, it's sure nice to know that Iraq is now clear of those weapons of mass destruction and that the people there have embraced regime change. The quality of life there certainly seems to have improved. It looks like the weapons of minor destruction were entirely overlooked, however. You have to actually go there to get shot I guess. Well done George. |
What weapons of mass destruction? The only thing I heard they found was one freakin old lab in a semi trailer. That's it. No scuds, no caches of chemical or biological weapons. If they had found them it would have been plastered all over the news. Should have listened to the UN and Hanz Blix.
You also have to realize that the spin on the whole thing changed when they couldn't find the tragetted weapons of mass destruction. The tone turned from saving the world from these supposed horrible weapons to "liberating" Iraq from crazy Saddam. So now you have a country free of weapons of mass destruction that we're not there and that has had every major infrastructure blown to smithereens. Better living conditions my eye.
I'm still proud that our Prime Minister didn't cave into US pressure to send our military to Iraq. The US and Great Britain broke the eggs. Let them wipe it off their faces themselves. |
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12/06/2003 01:19:06 PM · #766 |
This commentary on an excerpt from G.H.W. Bush's memoirs has been circulating the Net for a while:
In his memoirs, A World Transformed, written five years ago, George Bush, Senior, wrote the following to explain why he didn't go after Saddam Hussein at the end of the Gulf War.
"Trying to eliminate Saddam...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible.... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq.... there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self- consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post- Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
If only his son could read.
Actually, I suspect the problem is more likely that Bush the Younger CAN read, and like the typical adolescent does the opposite of what daddy says ...
Message edited by author 2003-12-06 13:19:44. |
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12/20/2003 09:23:46 PM · #767 |
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12/21/2003 02:15:25 AM · #768 |
here is the complete story of what General posted soldiers letters
spend 5 minutes and read the reviews this book gets and how many people agree with them.
this is our president? |
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12/21/2003 02:19:50 AM · #769 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
here is the complete story of what General posted soldiers letters
spend 5 minutes and read the reviews this book gets and how many people agree with them.
this is our president? |
for every person that agrees with you, there are 5 that disagree
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12/21/2003 11:44:22 AM · #770 |
| Check these poll results. This is from a self-selected group, but they tend towards a slightly conservative view in most things .... |
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12/21/2003 01:20:04 PM · #771 |
O.K....what do we do?
I see a lot of criticisms but little personal on what the United States should do when facing the world in 2004.
We live in a strange new world where the United States stands alone as the only superpower capable of unilateral success in war, something the world has not seen in several thousand years.
As a person who had a grandfather who served onboard a ship providing support during the
D-Day invasion, an uncle who fought in Vietnam; serving 3 tours in Cambodia and a cousin who fought in the 1st Dessert Storm....I have heard a lot of viewpoints.
The common view from all three? Scared as h3ll to be there. Regardless of the public support.
So being scared or unsure of being involved in war is a natural human emotion regardless of the public support or the immediate threat perceived. These emotions are valid but in themselves not enough to base national policies on.
So back to the original question. What does a United States do in the year 2004 when faced with challenges like an Iraq, Iran, North Korea, dispute over Taiwan etc, etc?
Real ideas and not rhetoric or political baiting.
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12/21/2003 08:17:23 PM · #772 |
I can only observe that some eight thousand years of problem-solving by military superiority has led us to the present absurd -- and some would say untenable -- world situation. My high school tennis coach taught me that when you are losing, go with some other plan or style of play, as the one you are using is clearly not working.
For example, why doesn't our government, which supposedly thinks that people and not governments offer the best hope for solutions, take that $87 billion away from Bechtel and Haliburton (that is, their stockholders), and give $3500 to every one of the 24,683,313 (July 2003 est.)* Iraqis and let them rebuild their own country? They could also hand over whatever part of Saddam's stash isn't counterfeit.
* Source: CIA World Factbook
The most practical suggestion I can think of off-hand would be to immediately replace every head-of-state, "federal"-level legislator, and governmental department head -- worldwide -- with their spouses. I think the general level of civility and the quality of life for the "average" person would improve markedly. |
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12/21/2003 08:20:19 PM · #773 |
holy crap. How did this thread come back alive? Has to be a record for # of entries.
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12/21/2003 08:33:14 PM · #774 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
holy crap. How did this thread come back alive? Has to be a record for # of entries. |
Gordon's latest camera must have come with one of those built-in defibrillators (useful when shooting nudes, I guess) -- he must have been testing it on this thread a couple of weeks ago and brought it back to life. |
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12/21/2003 08:56:24 PM · #775 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I can only observe that some eight thousand years of problem-solving by military superiority has led us to the present absurd -- and some would say untenable -- world situation. My high school tennis coach taught me that when you are losing, go with some other plan or style of play, as the one you are using is clearly not working. |
GeneralE,
You say that the world situation is "untenable" and it sounds like you would like to start over from scratch yet it seem to me that the world has never been better. More freedom, less starving people, better healthcare, longer expected lifespan and, with the internet, the ability for worldwide communication. We all seem to have enough free time to sit around and generate the longest thread in history which tells me that the basics like food, water and shelter must be taken care of. I'm not saying we don't have problems now, but when was it better?
Message edited by author 2003-12-21 20:57:33. |
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