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03/17/2003 02:41:20 AM · #376 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
DPC -- Terms of Use (Exerpt)
Prohibited Activities: DPChallenge.com specifically discourages any activity that:
ΓΆ€ΒΆ Is intended to victimize, harass, degrade or intimidate an individual or group of individuals on the basis of age, disability, ethnicity, gender, race, religion or sexual orientation. |
I guess that little exeprt is itended towards me... |
Nope...it applies to everyone here (see previous post), including myself. And I'm merely applying your own argument -- those are the rules here, and you agreed to abide by them. I didn't make them, but I cited them for your ready reference in case you forgot them, as it was my opinion you (and others) are coming too close to "the edge."
I have no power to threaten you with anything, either at DPC or anywhere else. The only things I can do here out of the ordinary is vote on photos submitted for DQ (I don't often), and participate in Site Council threads, mostly about testing new features...Everything else I do here is as a private, individual member. |
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03/17/2003 02:55:14 AM · #377 |
Just wanted to add this:
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."
Now, can anybody tell me who said that?
J.
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03/17/2003 03:13:42 AM · #378 |
jonr -
Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials to intelligence officer and psychologist Gustave Gilbert as published in the book "Nuremberg Diary". |
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03/17/2003 03:17:44 AM · #379 |
Originally posted by rmahan:
jonr -
Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials to intelligence officer and psychologist Gustave Gilbert as published in the book "Nuremberg Diary". |
Thanks. Although it seems like so obvious a proposition that it was hard for me to pin down who it even might have been, there were so many possibilities... |
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03/17/2003 09:01:09 AM · #380 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Geocide:
Do you all honestly think that closing the US's (the melting pot) borders will solve anything?
This view, in my mind, is so childish an simple minded and goes aginst the very principles of the US. |
Geocide, we need to keep the terrorists out of the country so it's a perfect time to CLOSE the borders. We have too many people coming here anyway, we don't need anymore. Live in your own country. Plus the immagrents of today don't assimilate into the country, but instead come here and want US to change.
A good example is the muslims that come here and sue the State when they can't wear the burkas (that cover their face) when applying for a drivers license. Well gee muslim, if you come here then you are going to have to take your burka off when applying for a drivers license... And iff you don't want to do that, then don't come here. YOU assimilate to OUR culture, not the other way around. |
i don't agree with this for the same reasons as geocide. i'm in favor on putting more restrictions on immigration, figuring out what to do with mexican illegal immigration, and great border security. but this country wouldn't exist without immigration, and even though that might not represent as big a chunk of our population growth, i don't think it would be wise to isolate ourselves further.
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03/17/2003 09:19:20 AM · #381 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Originally posted by achiral:
you talk about all the people you know in america that don't agree with the electoral college. this is such a minority opinion here it won't ever hold any weight here. you aren't smarter than the founders of our country. |
Uh... no, I've never claimed to be smarter than your founding fathers. I've simply described the way democracy works in MY country, which differs from your country, and said I like it our way. Give me some reasons why you think yours is better. Don't accuse me of thinking I'm some kind of genius.
I'm giving you the perspective of someone who is not American. I happen to like my country. It differs from yours. You keep intperpreting that as "anti-Americanism". Well no, we do things differently here and I like it. This is pro-Australianism, if anything. There is plenty about my own country I criticise, but in the case of our electoral system I think we have it just right.
Originally posted by achiral:
you say a lot of stuff that is based on what few people have told you about america. there are many many many more that disagree with you. you would probably like to call those people brainwashed, but it is obvious to everyone that reads this thread that you know nothing more than promoting anti-americanism. i'm sorry you feel threatened by the greatness, but there is nothing to worry about. we have done so much more good in the world than bad, it is amazing to hear you talk like that. |
Huh? I've never called anyone brainwashed. I respect people who disagree with me if they give me good reasons for their disagreement. And for the last time, I'm not anti-American. There are Americans in this very thread who I agree with... in fact, I think so far they outnumber the few vocal people who have argued against everything I've said! |
that is the dumbest argument i've ever heard. you are anti-american. if we gave your posts in this thread to a panel of people and asked them what they thought, they would say you are anti-american, i don't care what you call it. but either way you think polls are propaganda, so there really is no arguing with you, there is no reasoning with the unreasonable. i'm sorry you base your opinions of america on what a few people would have you think. i'm not knocking any other country either. i just can't believe some of the statements you make as if everything you say should be accepted as truth, regardless of how off base it actually is. you think that winning an argument means have the majority of support on a rant thread on dpc? my god that is so crazy, i know i'm in the minority, there are many foreigners on the site. trying to convince you is like going to an antiwar protest and trying to put a sign up supporting bush. it's a losing propostion, but that doesn't automatically make me wrong.
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03/17/2003 09:31:57 AM · #382 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
Chris, it seems that you would be best fitted in the Klu Klux Klan, or skinheads maybe... your views and foriegn policy is right in line with theirs. |
how does that not break the terms of use? anyway i wish this thread was totally unmoderated, i think we are all adult enough to realize people say things sometimes in the heat of the moment, but over time tend to regret what they said. as extreme as chris's ideals might seem to some, there are many people with his exact same viewpoint in america. i'm not one of them but i'm not going to say he's totally wrong either.
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03/17/2003 10:17:44 AM · #383 |
I not attacking him, I'm being totally serious. His views are totally inline with theirs. If you find the KKK or Skinheads offensive, that's your call.
Message edited by author 2003-03-17 10:18:08.
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03/17/2003 10:18:55 AM · #384 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by lisae:
Originally posted by achiral:
you talk about all the people you know in america that don't agree with the electoral college. this is such a minority opinion here it won't ever hold any weight here. you aren't smarter than the founders of our country. |
Uh... no, I've never claimed to be smarter than your founding fathers. I've simply described the way democracy works in MY country, which differs from your country, and said I like it our way. Give me some reasons why you think yours is better. Don't accuse me of thinking I'm some kind of genius.
I'm giving you the perspective of someone who is not American. I happen to like my country. It differs from yours. You keep intperpreting that as "anti-Americanism". Well no, we do things differently here and I like it. This is pro-Australianism, if anything. There is plenty about my own country I criticise, but in the case of our electoral system I think we have it just right.
Originally posted by achiral:
you say a lot of stuff that is based on what few people have told you about america. there are many many many more that disagree with you. you would probably like to call those people brainwashed, but it is obvious to everyone that reads this thread that you know nothing more than promoting anti-americanism. i'm sorry you feel threatened by the greatness, but there is nothing to worry about. we have done so much more good in the world than bad, it is amazing to hear you talk like that. |
Huh? I've never called anyone brainwashed. I respect people who disagree with me if they give me good reasons for their disagreement. And for the last time, I'm not anti-American. There are Americans in this very thread who I agree with... in fact, I think so far they outnumber the few vocal people who have argued against everything I've said! |
that is the dumbest argument i've ever heard. you are anti-american. if we gave your posts in this thread to a panel of people and asked them what they thought, they would say you are anti-american, i don't care what you call it. but either way you think polls are propaganda, so there really is no arguing with you, there is no reasoning with the unreasonable. i'm sorry you base your opinions of america on what a few people would have you think. i'm not knocking any other country either. i just can't believe some of the statements you make as if everything you say should be accepted as truth, regardless of how off base it actually is. you think that winning an argument means have the majority of support on a rant thread on dpc? my god that is so crazy, i know i'm in the minority, there are many foreigners on the site. trying to convince you is like going to an antiwar protest and trying to put a sign up supporting bush. it's a losing propostion, but that doesn't automatically make me wrong. |
Would i be considered antiamerican?
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03/17/2003 10:26:33 AM · #385 |
there is a difference in my opinion between someone who lives here and saying things like that and someone who is from another country and bases their opinions on what others of her viewpoint have told her from america
opinions like that have no bearing to what will actually happen in america. your opinion could have an impact here, and you have a right to say stuff like that under the constitution.
Message edited by author 2003-03-17 10:31:11.
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03/17/2003 10:52:24 AM · #386 |
Yeah, I don't think I'm anti-american but as someone who's gotten the short end of the stick from time to time because of my physical nature, makes me view this country in a diffrent light from the majority.
America has many many wonderful parts to it, but it's those very wonderful parts that are being threatened by the goverment right now.
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03/17/2003 11:43:13 AM · #387 |
achiral - I really don't understand why it matters where someone is from. People, including you, have criticised all kinds of things about Australia in this thread in return. I'll correct factual errors, but I appreciate it when anyone makes a valid criticism of my country. If I was American, I would never have voted for the current administration, so why shouldn't I criticise it? Especially since it has the power to affect my own life, and in fact all people's lives around the world.
I'm not sure whether or not I said this in this thread, but my maternal grandmother is American... she grew up in Kentucky. Last year when my boyfriend and I spent a month traveling around your country, I met some of my relatives there, in Albuquerque. New Mexico was heavenly! If you want to know the details of our trip, we started in Florida, travelled up the I95 with Manic and some other people, stayed in New York for a couple of nights (and were in the audience for a taping of the Late Show!!), went to Boston to stay with a friend, spent a night on her family's farm in Vermont, then flew down to Texas, hired a car, drove through New Mexico to Annida's place in Phoenix, stayed with her, saw the Grand Canyon and Sedona :), then drove all the way back to San Antonio for SIGGRAPH, stayed there for a week and then went home. It was the trip of my life, honestly. I have a description of it on my site, here.
I think your country is grand, I just don't agree with your current administration, or your electoral system, etc. |
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03/17/2003 01:18:27 PM · #388 |
I say keep your opinion! It' just as valid as everyone else's.
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03/17/2003 01:53:11 PM · #389 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
I say keep your opinion! It' just as valid as everyone else's. |
an opinion without a vote to back it up is useless
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03/17/2003 04:29:28 PM · #390 |
What an arrogant thought..
Message edited by author 2003-03-17 16:29:41.
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03/17/2003 04:45:47 PM · #391 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
Chris, it seems that you would be best fitted in the Klu Klux Klan, or skinheads maybe... your views and foriegn policy is right in line with theirs. |
WHAT!? I'm not racist at all! I'm just saying what I think is best for the country. See I KNEW that someone would call views on protecting our borders racist! It's unbelievable how you can label a view like this as being racist. |
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03/17/2003 04:59:31 PM · #392 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
What an arrogant thought.. |
it's true though right? we aren't allowed to have any opinion on what other countries should do because we would be seen as the big bad wolf, but when all the other countries want to run our foreign policy we have to listen? bs
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03/17/2003 05:06:29 PM · #393 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Geocide:
Chris, it seems that you would be best fitted in the Klu Klux Klan, or skinheads maybe... your views and foriegn policy is right in line with theirs. |
WHAT!? I'm not racist at all! I'm just saying what I think is best for the country. See I KNEW that someone would call views on protecting our borders racist! It's unbelievable how you can label a view like this as being racist. |
I never said you were a racist...your views that this borders should be locked off from all other countries and religions is in line with the KKK. Xenophopia, if you will.
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03/18/2003 05:48:22 AM · #394 |
FREEDOM FRIES ???
I guess we should expect soon: freedom dressing, freedom horns, freedom toast, freedom letters (never go out without them), freedom fashion, freedom Canadians and the freedom paradox.
What a way to go... Grow up and freedom kiss a little more instead.
Pardon my freedom!
Message edited by author 2003-03-18 05:51:30. |
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03/18/2003 06:11:12 AM · #395 |
Originally posted by jjbeguin:
FREEDOM FRIES ???
I guess we should expect soon: freedom dressing, freedom horns, freedom toast, freedom letters (never go out without them), freedom fashion, freedom Canadians and the freedom paradox.
What a way to go... Grow up and freedom kiss a little more instead.
Pardon my freedom! |
I want a freedom kiss too! darnit!
Message edited by author 2003-03-18 06:12:17. |
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03/18/2003 06:17:14 AM · #396 |
PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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03/18/2003 11:07:27 AM · #397 |
I can speak in a freedom accent. ;)
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03/18/2003 03:25:25 PM · #398 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Because we can read:
Chomsky's A Modest Proposal
Interesting portion:
Third, the UN will be no problem. It will be unnecessary to explain to the world that the UN is relevant when it follows orders, otherwise not. In the words of a high administration official after Congress authorized the use of military force, "we don't need the Security Council. So if the Security Council wants to stay relevant, then it has to give us similar authority." If anyone objects to the liberation of Iraq, the US can always use the veto to allow it to proceed.
How does the US use its veto "to allow [the use of military force] to proceed"?
Anyone? |
what does he mean by that |
I interpreted "the veto" in his paragraph to mean some self-appointed power
to act with utter disregard for Security Council proceedings/resolutions.
In fact, it is what it is. Paraphrasing his response, basically he indicates that the article is written as a Swiftian parody, pushing the argument in favour of an Iranian war on Iraq. If a resolution were proposed condemning a US-backed Iranian war against Iraq, the US could simply veto the resolution, "just as it repeatedly vetoed Security Council resolutions calling on Israel to terminate its aggression and massive atrocities in Lebanon in 1982 (and often since)." (quoting Noam Chomsky from personal correspondence)
Also, from an UN Library official:
Please be advised no official UN list of vetoes exists.
and:
Kindly note that there is no agreement about how vetos should be counted.
Problem areas for a count include vetos at closed meetings (for which no
public records exist) as well as vetos on paragraphs of draft resolutions
before the compete text is vetoed.
You can find some information on vetoes, especially those to which Chomsky refers, here:
//www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto.htm
Arguably, France is abusing its veto, but no more than any other permanent member.
Don't expect veto reform in the Security Council anytime soon however.
Some have argued the hypocrisy of having a veto, noting it was assigned
for necessary protection at the time, but that it represents one of
the least democratic functions within the UN.
I asked permission to reproduce Noam Chomsky's response here, but he recommended I paraphrase and quote, so I've edited my original post accordingly. If anyone is interested in his complete reply, please send me a PM.
Message edited by author 2003-03-19 00:10:34. |
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03/18/2003 03:35:15 PM · #399 |
how does a communist country deserve a veto?
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03/18/2003 07:04:55 PM · #400 |
The Worm Chirac Strikes Again
this is one of the most two faced governments i have ever heard. they say they will veto any resolution authorizing the use of force. now they say they will help if our men get attacked by chem and bio weapons? no thanks, france is obviously just trying to end up on the right side of the war when it is all said and done.
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