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03/15/2003 03:05:33 AM · #326 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
i think the freedom fries is a bit too far...just because a country disagrees with the us policy, it dosen't mean that they're "bad" a lot of people are still alive because of their resistance. |
Hahahaha, France disagrees with US policy... Let me tell you the only reason France "disagrees" is because they have oil deals with Saddam and have been selling Iraq military weapons covertly. France is a worthless has-been of a country. They are back-stabbing cowards, and most of the World knows it. They are a disgrace to the UN. Just another reason for the US to PULL OUT of the UN. We don't need this corrupt "orgainization".
That was pretty blunt, huh. :) |
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03/15/2003 04:54:56 AM · #327 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Hahahaha, France disagrees with US policy... Let me tell you the only reason France "disagrees" is because they have oil deals with Saddam and have been selling Iraq military weapons covertly. France is a worthless has-been of a country. They are back-stabbing cowards, and most of the World knows it. They are a disgrace to the UN. Just another reason for the US to PULL OUT of the UN. We don't need this corrupt "orgainization".
That was pretty blunt, huh. :) |
I just don't even know how to begin to understand this attitude. If people all around the world shout at you that Bush just wants to invade Iraq because of oil, you'll argue until the cows come home that they're wrong. But you'll happily hurl exactly the same kind of irrational, simplistic generalisation at another country.
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. Just because the French government's aims conflict with your government's aims, you think that says something about their "worth" as a country. |
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03/15/2003 07:49:13 AM · #328 |
Originally posted by Annida:
Freedon fries! *SCREAMS* |
...and during WW1, sauerkraut was called Liberty cabbage in this country. |
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03/15/2003 01:03:20 PM · #329 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. |
so then you can't really say much about US foreign policy, right?
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03/15/2003 01:17:38 PM · #330 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by lisae:
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. |
so then you can't really say much about US foreign policy, right? |
I can, since the US government is supposed to listen to, represent and obey the interests and will of its citizens, not paternalistically impose its values on us "for our own good."
Besides, I would say that this is only the traditional role of governments, and is really an extension of the "law of the jungle." I believe if human civilization is to survive, we will have to adopt a one-world philosophy, where the resources are shared more equitably and logically, and the role of current government entities would be primarily to maintain local infrastructure and promote regional culture/arts. |
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03/15/2003 02:21:56 PM · #331 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by lisae:
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. |
so then you can't really say much about US foreign policy, right? |
I can, since the US government is supposed to listen to, represent and obey the interests and will of its citizens, not paternalistically impose its values on us "for our own good."
Besides, I would say that this is only the traditional role of governments, and is really an extension of the "law of the jungle." I believe if human civilization is to survive, we will have to adopt a one-world philosophy, where the resources are shared more equitably and logically, and the role of current government entities would be primarily to maintain local infrastructure and promote regional culture/arts. |
well what would you say to the 66% of people that support war here in america
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03/15/2003 02:30:09 PM · #332 |
Originally posted by achiral:
well what would you say to the 66% of people that support war here in america |
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." |
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03/15/2003 02:38:25 PM · #333 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by lisae:
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. |
so then you can't really say much about US foreign policy, right? |
I can, since the US government is supposed to listen to, represent and obey the interests and will of its citizens, not paternalistically impose its values on us "for our own good."
Besides, I would say that this is only the traditional role of governments, and is really an extension of the "law of the jungle." I believe if human civilization is to survive, we will have to adopt a one-world philosophy, where the resources are shared more equitably and logically, and the role of current government entities would be primarily to maintain local infrastructure and promote regional culture/arts. |
well what would you say to the 66% of people that support war here in america |
Statistical numbers like that are the easiest form of propaganda that can be created by a government to force its issues on their people! |
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03/15/2003 08:12:33 PM · #334 |
Originally posted by Annida:
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by lisae:
Governments are supposed to protect the interests of their own country and their own people. |
so then you can't really say much about US foreign policy, right? |
I can, since the US government is supposed to listen to, represent and obey the interests and will of its citizens, not paternalistically impose its values on us "for our own good."
Besides, I would say that this is only the traditional role of governments, and is really an extension of the "law of the jungle." I believe if human civilization is to survive, we will have to adopt a one-world philosophy, where the resources are shared more equitably and logically, and the role of current government entities would be primarily to maintain local infrastructure and promote regional culture/arts. |
well what would you say to the 66% of people that support war here in america |
Statistical numbers like that are the easiest form of propaganda that can be created by a government to force its issues on their people! |
zogby is a democrat
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03/15/2003 11:58:22 PM · #335 |
zogby is a democrat[/quote]
what does the founder of the american arab institute have to do with this?! |
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03/16/2003 12:11:20 AM · #336 |
I think he meant the polling institute.
And it all depends on who's polls you look at. Democratic venues like newsweek and nbc have support around 53%, and more conservative venues like Fox have it around 63%. Polls are generally useless anyway. |
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03/16/2003 02:37:26 AM · #337 |
they're useless if you disagree with them, right?
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03/16/2003 03:13:39 AM · #338 |
Originally posted by achiral:
they're useless if you disagree with them, right? |
Same back to you. |
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03/16/2003 03:26:32 AM · #339 |
Originally posted by Annida:
Originally posted by achiral:
they're useless if you disagree with them, right? |
Same back to you. |
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose
honestly the propaganda thing is one of the stupidest things i have heard in a long time. the most important polls there are are the elections in america. they can't be disputed. republicans gained control of the congress, because of the votes of the people, but you would like to think that you are right which you aren't, and it makes you sad, which i can understand because of the extensive brainwashing you have undergone
Message edited by author 2003-03-16 03:40:45.
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03/16/2003 03:46:05 AM · #340 |
Originally posted by achiral:
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose |
How insightful! Especially since Annida is Greek Cypriot and lived in the UK before she moved to Arizona to get married... (*rolls her eyes*).
What do you think of the "election" Saddam Hussein "won" last year by a vote of 100%? Propaganda?
You really can't argue that elections in the US indicate support of the government considering the low voter turnout. Polls are actually more likely to capture a good cross section of people's feelings since they're truly random, and elections are skewed more towards people who are motivated by their passion for issues to actually vote.
However, the important thing to bear in mine in these particular polls is that it has been found that if respondents can answer questions about Iraq correctly (thus show that they know where it is and some of its history) they are more likely NOT to support the war. This support is based on ignorance, thus I agree that it's propaganda. |
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03/16/2003 04:12:21 AM · #341 |
Originally posted by achiral:
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose
honestly the propaganda thing is one of the stupidest things i have heard in a long time. the most important polls there are are the elections in america. they can't be disputed. republicans gained control of the congress, because of the votes of the people, but you would like to think that you are right which you aren't, and it makes you sad, which i can understand because of the extensive brainwashing you have undergone |
Well, I'm not going to go into the lengths you did, to call you stupid back. I'm just going to point out some sites that talk about propaganda.
//teacher.scholastic.com/upfront/issue/articles/7apropaganda.htm
//www.cfep.uci.edu/Community/KSR/media.html
//www.earthstation1.com/American_Propaganda_Posters.html
and one more.
//www.zpub.com/un/chomsky.html
There are hundreds of sites out there that explain propaganda and how it is used by governments around the world. Not just the USA.
I'd appreciate if you didn't stoop to name calling in future. It doesn't further your arguments. |
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03/16/2003 12:34:03 PM · #342 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Originally posted by achiral:
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose |
How insightful! Especially since Annida is Greek Cypriot and lived in the UK before she moved to Arizona to get married... (*rolls her eyes*).
What do you think of the "election" Saddam Hussein "won" last year by a vote of 100%? Propaganda?
You really can't argue that elections in the US indicate support of the government considering the low voter turnout. Polls are actually more likely to capture a good cross section of people's feelings since they're truly random, and elections are skewed more towards people who are motivated by their passion for issues to actually vote.
However, the important thing to bear in mine in these particular polls is that it has been found that if respondents can answer questions about Iraq correctly (thus show that they know where it is and some of its history) they are more likely NOT to support the war. This support is based on ignorance, thus I agree that it's propaganda. |
it is obvious your fascism has reached new heights. regardless of your opinion about elections, polls, and all that, the elections are the system that works in america. you can't dispute that. you can try to defend the idiots that choose not to vote, but there are people on both sides of the political spectrum that don't vote. also how can the opinions of people who can but don't vote be taken into account? people have a responsibility to vote in my opinion. if you choose not to vote you really can't enter an argument. surely you aren't that one sided in your thinking that you can't realize that. using an "election" in Iraq to try to prove a point is so pointless. unless you consider bush a dictator, which i have no doubts you do, there is no paralell to the "election" in Iraq and an actual election in america and other actual democracies
Message edited by author 2003-03-16 14:18:26. |
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03/16/2003 12:39:33 PM · #343 |
Originally posted by Annida:
Originally posted by achiral:
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose
honestly the propaganda thing is one of the stupidest things i have heard in a long time. the most important polls there are are the elections in america. they can't be disputed. republicans gained control of the congress, because of the votes of the people, but you would like to think that you are right which you aren't, and it makes you sad, which i can understand because of the extensive brainwashing you have undergone |
Well, I'm not going to go into the lengths you did, to call you stupid back. I'm just going to point out some sites that talk about propaganda.
//teacher.scholastic.com/upfront/issue/articles/7apropaganda.htm
//www.cfep.uci.edu/Community/KSR/media.html
//www.earthstation1.com/American_Propaganda_Posters.html
and one more.
//www.zpub.com/un/chomsky.html
There are hundreds of sites out there that explain propaganda and how it is used by governments around the world. Not just the USA.
I'd appreciate if you didn't stoop to name calling in future. It doesn't further your arguments. |
yeah those are all forms of propaganda by america. woohoo. where is the evidence that a zogby poll is a form of propaganda used by the government to persuade us brainwashed idiotic citizens here. that was such a ludicrous statement to say that polls are propaganda. some are, i'll agree to that, but zogby is very respected for being nonbiased and accurate. but hey you can live life dreaming up conspiracy theories with lisae
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03/16/2003 12:43:09 PM · #344 |
Please tone down the name-calling.
I believe there is a difference between saying "I think those people acted like idiots" and "those idiots did..."
In my opinion, the former would be your opinion, the latter a violation of site guidelines. |
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03/16/2003 01:26:52 PM · #345 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by Annida:
Originally posted by achiral:
they're useless if you disagree with them, right? |
Same back to you. |
whatever. if you cared to actually join this conversation, that would be great, but talking about how polls are propaganda is so stupid it makes me want to never visit arizona again, fearing the lack of intelligence there. you can have your minority opinion and call mine propaganda, but you will definitely lose... |
Awe come on now there must some intelligence here, but then again we did vote in Napolitano so maybe your right. Anyway visit anytime you like.
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03/16/2003 02:12:02 PM · #346 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please tone down the name-calling.
I believe there is a difference between saying "I think those people acted like idiots" and "those idiots did..."
In my opinion, the former would be your opinion, the latter a violation of site guidelines. |
okay, i thought the rant section wasn't moderated, and it was the former, no direct name calling to anyone in this thread. |
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03/16/2003 02:34:32 PM · #347 |
Thanks -- it's not moderated as to topics but I think the general site guidelines still apply.
Besides, your points will have a better chance of being heard and understood if the people you want to reach don't immediately tune you out because they get offended... |
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03/16/2003 02:48:48 PM · #348 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Thanks -- it's not moderated as to topics but I think the general site guidelines still apply.
Besides, your points will have a better chance of being heard and understood if the people you want to reach don't immediately tune you out because they get offended... |
i'm pretty sure my opinions are in the minority with people on this site, so i'll doubt i'll change any minds, but i'll keep on keepin on, spreadin the word. jk. your point is taken |
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03/16/2003 03:04:37 PM · #349 |
| I wasn't projecting any opinion by saying polls are useless, I was just stating a fact. The mere fact that there's such a descrepensy between fox's and nbc's polls on the exact same subject are proof enough. |
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03/16/2003 09:29:57 PM · #350 |
Originally posted by achiral:
it is obvious your fascism has reached new heights. regardless of your opinion about elections, polls, and all that, the elections are the system that works in america. |
Coming from a country that has proportional representation in our upper houses, preferential voting in our lower houses, where voting is compulsory (if you don't turn up and get your name marked off the electoral roll, you are fined a small amount of money), and where we have a central body independent of any political parties that oversees all elections and all funding issues... I tend to believe that the electoral system in America does not work very well. As do many Americans I know. That's why I don't believe elections in your country are representative or fair.
Originally posted by achiral:
you can't dispute that. you can try to defend the idiots that choose not to vote, but there are people on both sides of the political spectrum that don't vote. |
I think anyone who doesn't vote is a fool. They are generally apolitical or apathetic people who don't realise they are letting people with extreme views make all the important decisions that govern their life. For some reason there are a lot of such people in the US, and they have delivered us, the rest of the world, this current government in all its glory.
Message edited by author 2003-03-16 21:31:09. |
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