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11/21/2004 08:37:04 PM · #1 |
The art of the comment:
The object at DPC is to help each other improve. Comments are the only vehicle, besides the vote to gauge and improve our craft and art. There have been many threads denouncing the uncooth commentator and the what I call the punative voter and commentator. This serves no purpose but to unload your emotional baggage on somebody else.
If you feel the image offends your easthetic senses, go to the next. Yes, we all have different criteria employed to form our judgement. Some of us are very self opiniated and we often do more harm than good. Best to skip the images that for some reason create an excessive flow of negative feelings.
So let us begin with the simplest comments. You all now them: Great shot, image, capture etc, etc. You must understand that not all comment will be in depth critiques. Not everyone can or want to get that deeply involved. However, understand that these comments have as much merit because, although they are not pointing out defects nor seeking ways to improve your art, they are telling you succinctly how the image impressed them. This simply tells you that you have created a pleasing image or composition.
Next is the best of all comments. First you are praise for your composition and then you are told that other options will improve your image. This does not make them always right because often when something is changed it affects something else that requires as much attention to make the image sing. So from this message we gather that we are in the right track, but perhaps our image left something to be desired. Perhaps, it could be improved. There are so many elements to be considered. Deep inside we often feel something that tells us that this is acceptable but not really a competing image.
The final commentator, the in depth critique may even upset some people. They point things out that was your job to detect and they sometimes show you solutions that are indeed your job. In short, this critique when done by a good commentator can be very helpful but your images faults are brought right to the surface. You can wince, turn your face and just promise to pay more attention with the next shot.
Possibly the most devastating comments come from those that know better and expect you to climb on board in one leap. While these people are very astute, they simply fail to understand that because they try harder it does not mean that everyone has the same learning curve or burning interest. The people will also insult your lack of knowledge and they castigate you for being so ignorant with the usage of the photographic tools and rules. Tell them to go eat cake.
The art of the comment is simply to graduate from the one liner to the two liner. One line of praise and one of what you feel will improve the image. However, take into consideration the recipient and what he tried to accomplish. If you have a gut feeling present reveal your idea as an option for exploration. Never second guess, always proceed with some caution. You do not want to make your point, like I did once not reading the title. Read the title because it places the image immediately in context. Yes, I know, some folks feel that the image must speak for itself, but the title does give images a name, after all they are brain-children and we all know that some images without a title remain very isolated. Not all images can pop-up with full meaning. It is all dependent on the universal experience of the viewer. I once commented on this image and questioned why a beautiful scene was defaced with an unexplainable item. After I finished I read the title and rushed back to correct myself and my stupidity for not reading the title which reveal and depicted the scene wherein evrything that bothered me now makes full sense.
The only way to find what is missing is by looking and looking at the image. Many variables create an impression. Sometimes the colors alone carry one's fancy at other times it is the tonal values and sometimes the composition and neat cropping entrain out senses. Others are just simply beautiful as a whole and these are gems because when an image floors you, it means that all the ingredients, as presented, are at the ideal alchemical mix. So look at the images, allow them into your feeling and see what they do for you.
Then, feel free to express this inner joy and when you see images that you like but lack something, look again and come back to them. Tell the photographer you like it because of whatever reason and then gently point out what you think is missing. Always be civil and never downgrade another's efforts. While photography is an art it is also a craft. Approached with full efficiency in either mode, the results are always pleasing. Art trumps the craft because the artistic, visionary, futuristic and sometimes unorthox eye of the artist is creating first an impression and then a picture. Wherever you fit, we all evolve only if we wish, but whether we evolve or not, we can certainly improve our form of expression to the best we can at this one moment. Again, the importance of the comment can not be overstressed. Give them away and simply be loving and understanding and the words will come to you. Avoid sounding like an oracle and if you get a defensive email, ignore it and reply only if there is a good will. Some folks want to improve, but it is a lesson that they must learn themselves. They do not really belong with groups because they do not know how to comport themselves and take any correction as an attack from authority. The more you comment the more you learn. It is that simple.
A very short P.S. Be careful when you suggest cropping. Always recheck yourself because not all croppings solve the problem. Ask yourself, if I crop like this what am I hurting? Sometimes cropping is overlooked and very easy to correct but sometimes the image is trapped edge to edge to make sense.
Message edited by author 2004-11-21 20:55:36. |
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11/21/2004 08:40:24 PM · #2 |
| Well put, as always. I wish more DPCers would take the time to comment, but perhaps this might help some get started. Your threads are always insightful and helpful. Thanks. |
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11/21/2004 09:01:35 PM · #3 |
A nice reminder -- thanks.
I also wish everyone would review this site tutorial on 9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback.
Maybe the very first time a new member tries to vote they can be taken to a version of that page, where they have to check off a box at the bottom acknowledging that they've read it, before they can actually vote/comment. |
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11/21/2004 09:04:51 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by neesa108:
Well put, as always. I wish more DPCers would take the time to comment, but perhaps this might help some get started. Your threads are always insightful and helpful. Thanks. |
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What she said.
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11/21/2004 09:15:11 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
If you feel the image offends your easthetic senses, go to the next. Yes, we all have different criteria employed to form our judgement.... Best to skip the images that for some reason create an excessive flow of negative feelings.
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Daniel,
I completely agree with the above statement, and add in saying so that I am of the type to sometimes take mild offense. In my 2,269 votes since joining DPC on Oct. 4, I have declined voting on maybe 2 or 3 images. It would be a site improvement, I think, to have a SKIP button on the voting page, so that the skipped image doesn't keep reappearing. Thanks for the rest of your post, also, I will take it to heart in future comments. |
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11/21/2004 09:20:24 PM · #6 |
Yes, and it always good to start with:
Returning for comments ...... [and end with] ..... bumping up :)
BTW Thank you Daniel for many helpful comments.
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11/21/2004 09:24:45 PM · #7 |
I like to try to give a 'best of show' comment in most challenges. I have added a 'worst of show' to the black and white challenge. We'll see how that goes... lol
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11/21/2004 09:41:36 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
The art of the comment: ... |
Thank you, thank you, thank you! |
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11/21/2004 10:04:00 PM · #9 |
Thank you for writing that.
I must admit that I'm not the best when it comes to being diplomatic in my wording. This might help. |
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11/21/2004 10:30:23 PM · #10 |
I love giving anicdotes in my comments. I feel I really need to explain (sometimes) why the shot makes sense to me. Sometimes I dont and comment simply with wow.
I hope no one is offended or think my 'stories with no point' are a waste of their time to read because I enjoy giving them.
I also think it's a good idea for people to check some of the first comments they've made against some of the most recent. I did this and found if I had thought then how I think now, I wouldn't have made those comments. I also know how it feels to be told something is 'wrong' or the 'check this' when you meant exactly that but I really don't see a way around telling someone why you don't like something without your personal judgement.
Anyway Funk, I agree with this almost entirely and think people should look twice. I wish I had a post like this when I first came to this site. I am willing to admit I was very Gung Ho about my style, and how good I thought I actually was. I had to learn the hard way that people rarely agree with my art. It was fairly difficult to nurse my ego back to health and I'm still guilty of being upset by certain kinds of comments. The only difference is, I try and look at it through the eyes of anyone other than myself now.
Thanks for your well thought, much needed thread.
Joe
Edit: I have another point to make so bare with me. I don't always know how to fix what I don't like, it's part of being human. I hope people realize that even robots can malfunction (mostly because humans program them. It's funny how our malfunctions transfer into computers and things) so it's not that unreasonable to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Do this by realizing not everyone knows why they don't like something, sometimes I just don't like it. That also goes two ways, just cuz I like it doesn't mean I know why. Now I'm done, seriously.
Message edited by author 2004-11-21 22:35:53.
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11/21/2004 11:18:10 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by pcody:
Thank you for writing that.
I must admit that I'm not the best when it comes to being diplomatic in my wording. This might help. |
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Diplomacy will not only earn you goodwill but people will even listen you. There is also the added advantage that you will gain the respect of your cyber fellow. |
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