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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Challenge Entry Validation - Editing Steps
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 05/10/2025 03:46:53 PM · #1
Hello All,

Our brand new SC members have requested this PSA. :-D However, this is helpful to all of us that validate challenge entries.

We'd ask that when you submit an original file for validation that you please include your editing / processing steps. Some of you already do this extremely well, and we thank you. On the other hand, well, you know who you are ... ;-}

For a refresher, this is also listed under the Common Editing rules that everyone agrees to when submitting to challenges.

In the 'You must ...' section:
"retain your original, unedited file (exactly as recorded by your camera), and provide it to the Site Council along with a list of your editing steps within 48 hours of any validation request. This notice with instructions will be sent to your listed email address, and will also appear on the left side of your DPChallenge home page when you are logged in. Files that have been saved or altered with any editing or transfer software are NOT originals."

Thanks in advance, your help is greatly appreciated.

05/10/2025 07:02:23 PM · #2
How detailed do you need to be ie. If you use an auto editing function do you need to list the values for each of the conversions for instance exposure +4, contrast +6, highlights -2 etc. or can we just list it as “Auto edit” without specific numbers. Same for sharpening, textures, dehaze. Etc. if we use desaturation software like silver Efex do we have to list the preset and adjustments used? Etc. Etc.
 05/10/2025 09:24:20 PM · #3
I don't think we need specific numbers on adjustments. Well, I don't ;-) So levels or curves is enough to know you adjusted exposure. Silver Efex tells me you converted to B&W (or sepia or whatever) with a filter. Sharpening, dehaze... that's pretty self-explanatory. More detail is great, but what's really helpful is knowing all the steps. We'd prefer not to guess at what you did.
 05/11/2025 10:40:13 AM · #4
I never did, just wrote LR (Lightroom). I offered to provide all editing steps in the form of a Lightroom Preset but it was deemed unnecessary. I really wonder how in practice it would work? I suspect that if you do little editing in Photoshop it might be straightforward but not if multiple tools are used.
 05/11/2025 10:57:48 AM · #5
Thank you Margaret - very helpful.
 05/11/2025 10:58:06 AM · #6
Originally posted by MaryO:
I don't think we need specific numbers on adjustments. Well, I don't ;-) So levels or curves is enough to know you adjusted exposure. Silver Efex tells me you converted to B&W (or sepia or whatever) with a filter. Sharpening, dehaze... that's pretty self-explanatory. More detail is great, but what's really helpful is knowing all the steps. We'd prefer not to guess at what you did.

This sounds about right to me.
 05/11/2025 12:15:28 PM · #7
What we are asking is for you to list your simple editing and processing steps. As MaryO already said, we don't need exact details.
Pretend we are going to pull your original into PS or whatever and tell us what things we would need to do to get the resulting entry... crop, brighten, clone, layers, NIK filters, etc (not that we actually do that but you get the idea).
Our goal is to understand your process so that we do not DQ anybody wrongly. Guessing is not a fair game.

and Thanks!!!
 05/11/2025 04:42:03 PM · #8
Well noted. I do edit on my phone quite a lot and pretty messy so I tend not to provide the steps and just say I used Snapseed and did some tweaks to the image, which is what I pretty much do. I'll try my best given I'll score properly. My last ribbon was a brown one lol.
 05/11/2025 09:42:41 PM · #9
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
What we are asking is for you to list your simple editing and processing steps. As MaryO already said, we don't need exact details.
Pretend we are going to pull your original into PS or whatever and tell us what things we would need to do to get the resulting entry... crop, brighten, clone, layers, NIK filters, etc (not that we actually do that but you get the idea).
Our goal is to understand your process so that we do not DQ anybody wrongly. Guessing is not a fair game.

and Thanks!!!


Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if things had changed under the new administration!
 05/12/2025 09:53:16 AM · #10
Just looked at the recent batch of images for validation, and want to say Thank You to all for the included editing details.
 05/12/2025 11:37:50 AM · #11
I've always put steps down, but now I'm questioning myself about if it's enough detail.

I'd prefer to get a note from SC saying you need more details, please... other than guessing if you're ticked off at me. Ha!

I'm sure everyone would like to know if we're not doing something correctly.
 05/12/2025 11:45:48 AM · #12
Originally posted by Lydia:
I've always put steps down, but now I'm questioning myself about if it's enough detail.

Well then, error on the side of too much detail, rather than not enough. Yes?

Originally posted by Lydia:
I'd prefer to get a note from SC saying you need more details, please... other than guessing if you're ticked off at me. Ha!

If we need more info, we'll certainly reach out and contact you. :-D

Originally posted by Lydia:
I'm sure everyone would like to know if we're not doing something correctly.

That's part of the reason for this forum thread.
05/12/2025 03:36:44 PM · #13
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Lydia:
I've always put steps down, but now I'm questioning myself about if it's enough detail.

Well then, error on the side of too much detail, rather than not enough. Yes?

Originally posted by Lydia:
I'd prefer to get a note from SC saying you need more details, please... other than guessing if you're ticked off at me. Ha!

If we need more info, we'll certainly reach out and contact you. :-D

Originally posted by Lydia:
I'm sure everyone would like to know if we're not doing something correctly.

That's part of the reason for this forum thread.


I agree, but... I think I've been putting everything down.

I'd like to be told if ever that I haven't.

If I don't hear from you, I won't worry. :D
05/12/2025 04:54:36 PM · #14
Originally posted by Lydia:
If I don't hear from you, I won't worry. :D

Correct. :-)
 05/12/2025 10:51:33 PM · #15
I'm one of the ones that haven't been doing it (sorry!)

A long time ago it seemed to change to "tell us if there's anything unusual - it's pretty obvious that it's cropped or brightened, etc."

So if it looked exactly the same -- except the colors were brighter, more contrasty, cropped, the usual stuff, it was pretty obvious. But if the perspective was changed, that's something that wasn't intuitively obvious -- it could be that it was the wrong file and you had just moved forward with the camera, so that would be listed.

So you do want something like:

crop
clone extra person out
Brightness/contrast

One question -- I do a lot in Camera Raw. For example, on a typical shot I might

Whites +10
Highlights -7
Shadows +13
Blacks -9
Contrast +4
Clarity +10
Texture +7
exposure +5
Vibrance +13
Saturation +4
tone curve + lights, - darks

The thing is, all this stuff happens if you click "auto", as well.

Do you want those steps (without the numbers, I see)

Or can we just put camera RAW changes?

Thanks! I play with so many small things that only make small changes.

Whatever you'd like, we can do, Just feeling things out,

Message edited by author 2025-05-12 22:53:25.
 05/12/2025 11:10:58 PM · #16
Hmmmmmm.....

Given this discussion of too much vs. too little, has the SC ever thought about putting together a template or perhaps a few sample descriptions to help folks out.
 05/12/2025 11:42:22 PM · #17
Originally posted by bobnospum:
Hmmmmmm.....

Given this discussion of too much vs. too little, has the SC ever thought about putting together a template or perhaps a few sample descriptions to help folks out.

Great suggestion, I will be very interested to see them.

When I used Lightroom I made at least as many edits as Wendy, and more. I also used Auto in LR Develop module. All perfectly "legal" under Standard rules. That's why I suggested saving edits as a preset, much less searching for all changes made, much less typing. Just download the preset and apply to the original to see what edits were made. You would need access to LR though.

Now I use ON1 Photo Raw and it is even more difficult to work out all changes as I use Brilliance AI on auto. I still don't know all AI does but the image is still OK under Standard rules as no new elements were created, just lots of adjustments to brightness, colors, 3 types of contrast, curves, sharpening etc.

Maybe validation methods need to catch up with technology?

05/12/2025 11:44:13 PM · #18
Actually, you could probably train AI to do the validation saving a lot of time for SC.
 05/13/2025 06:07:39 AM · #19
To have to list and itemize all the specific steps would be a nightmare for me. A lot of it is minor adjustments on the fly and going back to re adjust. Given the amount of time it takes sometimes to conceptualize, prepare and take the image, edit, and upload the picture along with basic data and general comments it would be much to time consuming to have to list and quantify all the steps in editing. I woul pray that I didn’t end up in the top 5!
 05/13/2025 07:50:30 AM · #20
Bingo #1

Originally posted by MaryO:
I don't think we need specific numbers on adjustments. Well, I don't ;-) So levels or curves is enough to know you adjusted exposure. Silver Efex tells me you converted to B&W (or sepia or whatever) with a filter. Sharpening, dehaze... that's pretty self-explanatory. More detail is great, but what's really helpful is knowing all the steps. We'd prefer not to guess at what you did.
05/13/2025 07:51:11 AM · #21
Bingo #2

Originally posted by PennyStreet:
What we are asking is for you to list your simple editing and processing steps. As MaryO already said, we don't need exact details.
Pretend we are going to pull your original into PS or whatever and tell us what things we would need to do to get the resulting entry... crop, brighten, clone, layers, NIK filters, etc (not that we actually do that but you get the idea).
Our goal is to understand your process so that we do not DQ anybody wrongly. Guessing is not a fair game.

and Thanks!!!
05/13/2025 01:49:58 PM · #22
Recent example of mine, since it actually went through validation (not by me, I hasten to add! We don't validate our own images.):

Original:

Entry:

PP - converted from RAW, cropped severely, brightened head/eye/fish, darkened bill, shifted blues towards cyan and increased saturation, Topaz Photo AI, resized, unsharp mask

That's what I have in my photographer's notes, where I always put my PP details when I submit, because I'm unlikely to remember everything I did a week or two later LOL.

I could have, and maybe should have, put more detail in the "converted from RAW" part (lightened shadows and darkened highlights) and the Topaz AI part (noise reduction and subject sharpening). This one wasn't a complicated edit, no cloning, for instance, but it's more or less the level of detail I expect to see. Just enough to evaluate whether the steps explain the differences between the original and the edited image.

Does that help clarify things?
 05/13/2025 06:31:57 PM · #23
> Does that help clarify things?

Yes, it does. Super thanks.

Although my comment on "template or perhaps a few sample descriptions" was really more intended for placing something in the Challenge Rules page to help out people with the question going forward.

PS: Glad I was not the only one who had to crop their bird photo like crazy to get it in the frame. I have a 400mm on full frame and even an 800mm would have needed a crop!
 05/13/2025 07:57:03 PM · #24
Originally posted by bobnospum:
PS: Glad I was not the only one who had to crop their bird photo like crazy to get it in the frame. I have a 400mm on full frame and even an 800mm would have needed a crop!

I think if I had to make that crop with my camera (and then probably scale it up to DPC-size) it would probably look more like something out of the Minecraft movie than a real bird. :-)
 05/13/2025 09:46:25 PM · #25
I'd like to note that as long as we've been working with the current rulesets, we've had minimal need for exhaustive processing notes. In the beginning, the rules were "tool based" and specifically legislated against certain processes and tools, including specific filters etc. So, it was necessary that we have enough processing detail that we could attempt to recreate the entry from the original ourselves to see if the rules had been followed. And THAT led to a lot of friction back-and-forth, it was a thankless task.

Now the rules are "results based" and we don't care what software was used, just that a comparison between the original and the entry satisfies us that the entire operation was within our parameters.

Since we almost never need to attempt to recreate an entry from scratch for validation purposes, extremely detailed notes including slider settings etc are overkill from the SC perspective. We're happy with a list of programs and filters and notes of what was cloned out etc :-)

And yes, I'm still "here" during the transition, but mostly lurking in the background and watching the new team get up to speed :-)
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