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11/18/2004 07:24:01 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Question is does it worth it? And another question is if your image needs additional verbal explanation, is it really a good one? Personally I want your image to say the words you are trying to explain in your PM's. |
Just to play devils advocate here: I have a comment on my current photo saying that I've used too much Neatimage. Problem is -- I don't have Neatimage. Why would it be wrong for me to contact this person and tell them that? |
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11/18/2004 07:26:25 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by debitipton:
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Question is does it worth it? And another question is if your image needs additional verbal explanation, is it really a good one? Personally I want your image to say the words you are trying to explain in your PM's. |
Just to play devils advocate here: I have a comment on my current photo saying that I've used too much Neatimage. Problem is -- I don't have Neatimage. Why would it be wrong for me to contact this person and tell them that? |
Because .. just because! (hehe) :)
It doesn't matter whether you have NeatImage or not. Perhaps the effect is the same, and the person's opinion is that it is too soft or blended looking for their taste. Perhaps they think it would be improved without so much of that type of effect.
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11/18/2004 07:30:20 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by vince31874:
I dont think its reasonable to give someone nasty messages either.
Look...
This is my last post on this thread.
My point is... Don't PM me until after the challenge. |
what wrong does it do if you have already voted for the photo? You have made your judgement and then AFTER, you get a pm (nasty or not) from that person. I Pm people back when they leave comments that require explanation. They have already voted on my photo and I feel now that I maybe discuss with them on that photo.
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11/18/2004 07:30:40 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by debitipton:
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Question is does it worth it? And another question is if your image needs additional verbal explanation, is it really a good one? Personally I want your image to say the words you are trying to explain in your PM's. |
Just to play devils advocate here: I have a comment on my current photo saying that I've used too much Neatimage. Problem is -- I don't have Neatimage. Why would it be wrong for me to contact this person and tell them that? |
...Because it's not likely to change this person's mind. The voter is basing his/her score on what's perceived - in this case, it "looks" like too much NeatImage was used. There's a greater chance that your PM will be misunderstood as defensive, perhaps causing a negative reaction on the voter's part (...like changing the score to a one).
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11/18/2004 07:32:01 PM · #30 |
This all relates to the type of person you are whether or not you feel like responding and 'explaining' yourself. Personally, I will probably never respond, although I was tempted to durring this b&w challenge.
One commenter made a comment that is completely off the wall -- and if that person had looked at my image for more than five seconds, they would have realized why...but I figure I can explain that after the challenge to the masses incase they're interested.
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Read my last post on page one of this thread, as I feel I've made it clear as to why you guys (the ones of you complaining) are getting all of these defensive responses to your comments and I have not gotten a single one.
:-D |
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11/18/2004 07:36:26 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by debitipton:
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Question is does it worth it? And another question is if your image needs additional verbal explanation, is it really a good one? Personally I want your image to say the words you are trying to explain in your PM's. |
Just to play devils advocate here: I have a comment on my current photo saying that I've used too much Neatimage. Problem is -- I don't have Neatimage. Why would it be wrong for me to contact this person and tell them that? |
I understand your frustration but this is another issue. I get alot of those on my kidnapped radiance photo from people who were sure I photoshoped it more than I did, whenever people will see something unnatural on this site, theyr first thought goes to photoshop. Most don't even consider that it can be done with lighting or another tehniques, but ignorants exist and will exist for ever the world would be so boring without them.
But you really expect to achieve anything from one PM even if supose that one person reconsiders his vote? On 2-300 votes how much do you think that counts. Most voters just left you a low score and moved on... I do think however if after the challenge is over you show that person they whas wrong they will feel bad about it and some maybe next time will be more careful.
This could also be solved with allowing us to put some text that will be shown with the image but only in special cases when you feel people will get paranoid about some things, and to be not allowed to add anything in that textbox just a few words of tehnical explanations.
I don't know but I do know that PM-ing people during challenge anoyes more people than solves any problem of the complainant even if the PM is succesful, again, what's one vote in 300?
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11/18/2004 07:39:35 PM · #32 |
I don't always agree with the commentors, but I really don't appriciate people downtalking my children (has happened) when I use them as models. You're damn right if you think I'm going to PM you and express how pointless your opinion has become (they then rethought their opinion about my model and decided to alter the comment to exclude their personal judgements) Don't make rude comments and you're not going to get rude responses (see murphy's law about exceptions to all rules). You could hate everything about my photo and I don't really care anymore unless you abuse the comment box. By abusing it I mean personally attacking models, or breeds of dog, or anything else like that.
Joe
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11/18/2004 07:42:27 PM · #33 |
So you think we should only make comments when we feel like "wooow" ?
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11/18/2004 07:57:29 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by vince31874:
I am making comments on the photos in the B&W challenge, and in response, people are giving me explanations through PM.
Don't do it! Stay Anonymous!
I will give anyone a automatic "ONE" for this, no matter how good the photo is. Save your comments for after the challenge. |
Hmmm...??? Vince, I just noticed that the well thought-out comment you left on my image has disappeared. Why would you have done that? I didn't PM you.
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11/18/2004 08:17:20 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Hmmm...??? Vince, I just noticed that the well thought-out comment you left on my image has disappeared. Why would you have done that? I didn't PM you. |
I've just noticed a very constructive comment, the last one left I think, has also vanished. What a shame if someone, not sure if mine was from Vince or not, has taken the trouble to write a constructive comment and then remove it.
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11/18/2004 08:23:00 PM · #36 |
well... unless you know a lot of people on this site... most of them are anon to you anyway... just because you can see their online name doesn't mean you automatically will rate them higher or lower. If you go to the trouble to look up the profile that goes with that name, then and only then does the person become known to you. And not even in the real sense of knowing a person. 99% of the time the messages you get are from somebody you've never heard of, and it really shouldn't affect your oppinion. Also I do not believe it is against the rules to pm somebody during a challenge. Also voting a 1 for this reason alone is against the rules of the website and I suggest you do not carry on with this threat.
one last thing... You already voted on the picture without knowing who it was. So the vote was fair the first time! There is no need to change it.
Message edited by author 2004-11-18 20:24:20. |
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11/18/2004 08:26:18 PM · #37 |
As I read both this thread and the other, it seems there are really two issues, and maybe one is being fueled by the other.
1) Nasty, rude PMs related to comments. The arguement is to not allow people to see the commenter and PM them during voting. But you're just postponing the inevitable. You'll still get the nasty message, it'll just be a few days later. And then you'll be starting a thread saying comments should be totally anonymous, or PMs shouldn't be allowed, or people just suck, or whatever. The point is, the real problem (you're upset because someone didn't appreciate your comment and was rude in their response) will still exist.
2) Anonymity. When you cast your vote and made your comment, the photographer was anonymous. So unless you change your vote or your comment, the vote is still "pure" - it was made in total anonimoty. Nothing has been violated by you receiving a message. |
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11/18/2004 08:26:41 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Hmmm...??? Vince, I just noticed that the well thought-out comment you left on my image has disappeared. Why would you have done that? I didn't PM you. |
I've just noticed a very constructive comment, the last one left I think, has also vanished. What a shame if someone, not sure if mine was from Vince or not, has taken the trouble to write a constructive comment and then remove it. |
No. I know I didn't take any away. As a matter of fact I didn't think you could. I have also noticed in my profile the number of my comments has dropped dramatically,yet helpful comments are still up there. Could this be a glitch? Whats going on? Where did my comments go?
Message edited by author 2004-11-18 20:27:53.
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11/18/2004 08:42:10 PM · #39 |
I can understand why some people don't like to be PMed during competition. I don't mind and actually appreciate it when someone provides clarification on something I didn't understand, or, usually in the case of a newbie, wants to say an immediate "thank you" for the comment.
But, if you don't want to receive PMs, there's always that very handy delete key.
Solves lots of problems. |
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11/18/2004 08:47:28 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
As I read both this thread and the other, it seems there are really two issues, and maybe one is being fueled by the other.
1) Nasty, rude PMs related to comments. The arguement is to not allow people to see the commenter and PM them during voting. But you're just postponing the inevitable. You'll still get the nasty message, it'll just be a few days later. And then you'll be starting a thread saying comments should be totally anonymous, or PMs shouldn't be allowed, or people just suck, or whatever. The point is, the real problem (you're upset because someone didn't appreciate your comment and was rude in their response) will still exist.
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Not upset reather I feel there is a total lack of respect atleast for my time spent on that image, lack of respect for my privacy, and spammed with unwanted messages, but maybe you are right, morons will be morons regardless if during the challenge or after. But atleast after the challenge like you say I can start a thread, and discuss it with anothers both the photo and my comment, wich is completely different from trying to influence my vote by privately trying to explain stuff. Also there is a certain feeling of emotion in most those PM's, wich in many cases after a while when they cool down and not under the tension of trying to get a better score desperately (wich I personaly find pathetic) many will just move on and forget about it, others will try to lern fro it, I think the amount of PM's will be alot less.
Originally posted by ScottK:
2) Anonymity. When you cast your vote and made your comment, the photographer was anonymous. So unless you change your vote or your comment, the vote is still "pure" - it was made in total anonimoty. Nothing has been violated by you receiving a message. |
Simply because I don't wanna know who, what camera and whatever other details are behind an image, I just want the image to communicate not the pathetic PM's. Also I been on many different photography site and most of them suck just because of this. They don't have anonimity, people develop in gangs of so called "friends" and vote eachother higher scores, leave the nicest comments, but only if you are in a gang by your gang members. Vote me to vote you comment me and I comment you, I been on one of those sites and when I whas commenting and voting everyone, I got alots of pure maximum scores and nicest comments. Now that I didn't commented on anyone's image for a few months I uploaded one for curiousity and recived 2 comments, before I whas getting 30-40. Without the anonimity it becomes more like a popularity contest and moves as far away from photography as it's possible, that's why I belive anonimity is the strongest point of this site and we should all respect it regardless.
Also to proove my point I can give you an example of someone who really respects anonimity. During the poverty challenge Tiberius PM'd me to tell me something else and also to thank me for my comment, but he insisted on not giving me any details about wich image is that. He knew that if he would tell me just because we are both romanians and friends, I might be tempted to higher his score. I so much liked that. I mean that's the stuff an artist should be made of, he is honest he really wanned to see the outcome of his work without any other intervention, and he did verry good he ribboned. And I bet he's more happy that he ribboned that way than another who riboned by calling on his gang to vote him or by explaining things in PM's.
P.S. I whas so happy to see I gave him a 10 when it whas over, a honest 10 not one because hes my romanian friend here.
Message edited by author 2004-11-18 20:57:27.
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11/18/2004 09:22:06 PM · #41 |
Gotta say...my images, generally speaking, are atrocious...and I appreciate every comment (and I mean every comment...including the ones that make no sense to me...) made. I have never once tries to explain my image. I figure...if I gotta explain it....the image probably deserved a low score because it sucked...
Just my 2 pennies.... |
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11/18/2004 09:27:32 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by hardwaybets:
Gotta say...my images, generally speaking, are atrocious...and I appreciate every comment (and I mean every comment...including the ones that make no sense to me...) made. I have never once tries to explain my image. I figure...if I gotta explain it....the image probably deserved a low score because it sucked...
Just my 2 pennies.... |
That's the spirit!!! :)) the image should explain itself not you...
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11/18/2004 09:45:35 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by vince31874:
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Hmmm...??? Vince, I just noticed that the well thought-out comment you left on my image has disappeared. Why would you have done that? I didn't PM you. |
I've just noticed a very constructive comment, the last one left I think, has also vanished. What a shame if someone, not sure if mine was from Vince or not, has taken the trouble to write a constructive comment and then remove it. |
No. I know I didn't take any away. As a matter of fact I didn't think you could. I have also noticed in my profile the number of my comments has dropped dramatically,yet helpful comments are still up there. Could this be a glitch? Whats going on? Where did my comments go? |
same thing happened to me, your comment disappeared |
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11/18/2004 09:48:29 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by vince31874:
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Hmmm...??? Vince, I just noticed that the well thought-out comment you left on my image has disappeared. Why would you have done that? I didn't PM you. |
I've just noticed a very constructive comment, the last one left I think, has also vanished. What a shame if someone, not sure if mine was from Vince or not, has taken the trouble to write a constructive comment and then remove it. |
No. I know I didn't take any away. As a matter of fact I didn't think you could. I have also noticed in my profile the number of my comments has dropped dramatically,yet helpful comments are still up there. Could this be a glitch? Whats going on? Where did my comments go? |
Maybe the admins decided that if you were going to automatically give someone a "1" for PMing you with a thank you, they'd solve the problem by removing/hiding your comments.
Edit: typo
Message edited by author 2004-11-18 21:49:15.
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11/18/2004 09:49:41 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by hardwaybets:
...I appreciate every comment (and I mean every comment...including the ones that make no sense to me...) made. I have never once tries to explain my image. I figure...if I gotta explain it....the image probably deserved a low score because it sucked... |
Me 2. Even bad comments can show the photographer where clarity is required. I once sent a PM to a commenter suggesting that I remove an element that was the whole point of the photo. I sent a quick PM with little more than a "look again" statement, but probably embarrassed the commenter because it was so painfully obvious. In hindsight, I shouldn't have bothered. The photo wasn't scoring well anyway and, even if the comment was annoying, one opinion wasn't going to change that.
Sometimes a visual illusion is convincing enough for voters to leave negative comments based on an assumption that it's real (it's happened more than once to me). I could send a PM to point out the trick, but it's just a game, and I can take some satisfaction in knowing that someone was fooled. ;-P |
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11/18/2004 09:58:30 PM · #46 |
The truth of the matter is that not all voters are ina position to actually judge the means. However, they hold the power to think whatever they want and to characterize your image however they want.
Each of us reach a level of satisfaction with our observation powers or sheer lack of them and we do not enjoy being corrected. Many of us search to improve, but some of us remain retards and what we perceive whether right or wrong is defended.
I once had an image in stopped motion. The voter said he is low balling the image because there is no way that this shot is as presented because the lighting is contradictoty and the pieces are suspended rather then stopped in mid air. I PM him. Very nicely I explained that the shot is true stopped motion and described how it was achieved. The voter did not even wish to extend me the courtesy of the doubt. He replied that he will let the site counsil decide and if he is wrong he would accept it.
Of course, not all voters are as thick headed, but you just do not know who you are dealing with. If there is any sign of animosity be careful because they will change the two to a one.
Always remember that the voter is given a power and some will use it in a punative manner. The majority accept this power as a responsibility to be fair but nevertheless, this is their power and you must very careful in risking an encounter. |
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11/18/2004 10:01:31 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Not upset reather I feel there is a total lack of respect atleast for my time spent on that image, lack of respect for my privacy, and spammed with unwanted messages, but maybe you are right, morons will be morons regardless if during the challenge or after. |
1. You write as if you are upset.
2. A reply to your comment is not spam, unless they have sent the identical message to a large group of people. Please do not label people's actions inappropriately with negatively-charged terminology.
3. I don't see how sending you a PM either constitutes a lack of respect or "violates your privacy." If you don't want to receive messages from DPC members, then set your email/spam filter to block them all. Otherwise, a PM is a PM, and you can either respond to it or delete it, but to go and change your votes in response seems illogical and petty, and is a violation of the rules IMO.
4. Labelling people with inappropriate pejorative adjectives is not allowed by site policy -- please stop. |
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11/18/2004 10:02:45 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
...Each of us reach a level of satisfaction with our observation powers or sheer lack of them and we do not enjoy being corrected. Many of us search to improve, but some of us remain retards and what we perceive whether right or wrong is defended... |
LOL. How true this statement is.
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11/18/2004 10:08:51 PM · #49 |
PMing someone to explain your image is very weak...
Your image is inferior...swallow your pride and get over it.
Don't PM someone to give an explanation...it's stupid and weak.
Now I got 4 pennies into this discussion.
P.S. General...your last comments are uncalled for...this is a message board and if this is how this participant feels then so be it...no need to browbeat him for it..... |
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11/18/2004 10:12:09 PM · #50 |
| As an aside...how "spaming" constitutes a "pejorative adjective" is beyond me! |
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