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11/01/2004 11:23:54 AM · #101 |
FWIW, here's my opinion, as a single ribbon winner and someone who has placed top 10 a number of times:
I have no problem with the Master's Challenges. They've earned it. I also think it's a great thing that they have a topic this time. If people have earned a number of ribbons for shooting in one style, giving them a free study just lets them have an advantage because they can shoot what they're good at anyway. Now they have to work outside of their comfort zone a bit.
I question the decision to up the "entry fee" to 3 ribbons. For me personally, 2 was within reach (because I only have to win one more ribbon to get in). 3 seems like a stretch, and I have a headstart on a lot of people. I am guessing that a lot of people are upset because earning 3 ribbons just to get into another challenge appears completely out of reach. I would like to hear more discussion as to why this change was made. I thought that the number of entries in the last master's challenge was perfect, and there was still some room to grow.
Personally, I feel that there are a number of people who enter far too many challenges. At some point in time, there has to be a better balance between "quality" and "quantity." I believe quality is frequently sacrificed here in order to "beat the deadline" or because they feel they "HAVE" to enter the challenge. That's unfortunate, and I think that shows in a lot of entries. I've taken a number of 6+ month breaks where I've still be active photographically and on DPC and I don't feel I've suffered at all. In fact, I think it's really really helped.
If you feel cheated or shorted because this is one less challenge you get to enter, maybe you should focus more on your efforts for the other challenges. If you spent more time improving your techniques, etc, this would all be a moot point: you'd be earning ribbons and be able to enter the Master's challenge.
Rob
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11/01/2004 11:33:24 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I posted this below and I'd love to hear from you, Jon (or anyone else):
I don't want to seem like I'm against the idea 'in principle'. I was excited about the first Master's Challenge. In a nutshell, here's my question:
The first Master's Challenge was deemed 'an experiment'. By what criteria was this experiment a success? |
By having more votes and far more comments than any other challenge?
I'd say the membership voted it a success with their, um, votes.
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11/01/2004 11:43:11 AM · #103 |
Personally I think it is quite inspired.
Take a challenge theme that encourages shots that traditionally don't do very well on dpc - if you assume that impressionistic shots are in many ways the antithesis of standard 'stock-like' shots.
Then, mark it as a 'Masters' challenge, which in general might mean that viewers will at least assume the person taking the picture has a vague clue about what they are doing and it isn't a 'mistake' that it is blurry, out of focus or whatever.
Has a lot of potential, both for interesting shots and an educational voting experience.
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11/01/2004 11:44:40 AM · #104 |
The latest free study is always likely to have the highest number of votes/comments, isn't it? Especially when there are only 69 entries.
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted?
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11/01/2004 11:51:11 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Personally I think it is quite inspired.
Take a challenge theme that encourages shots that traditionally don't do very well on dpc - if you assume that impressionistic shots are in many ways the antithesis of standard 'stock-like' shots.
Then, mark it as a 'Masters' challenge, which in general might mean that viewers will at least assume the person taking the picture has a vague clue about what they are doing and it isn't a 'mistake' that it is blurry, out of focus or whatever.
Has a lot of potential, both for interesting shots and an educational voting experience. |
I don't disagree with most of what you say...but I'm not sure what purpose is served by limiting it to Masters.
Like I said, I thought it was a neat idea at first but after looking through the results of the last Master's challenge the only difference I saw was that a lot of the lower scorers were weeded out...what good does that do?
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11/01/2004 11:56:27 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
but I'm not sure what purpose is served by limiting it to Masters.
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well I did say why I thought that.
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11/01/2004 11:58:14 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
but I'm not sure what purpose is served by limiting it to Masters.
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well I did say why I thought that. |
Yeah, I figured with an Impressionist challenge that everyone would assume the intentionality of the shot whether it was a "Master" taking the photo or not...
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11/01/2004 12:01:08 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted? |
It's a bit like buying a record then complaining when it gets to number 1.
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11/01/2004 12:07:17 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Yeah, I figured with an Impressionist challenge that everyone would assume the intentionality of the shot whether it was a "Master" taking the photo or not... |
never seems to have worked that way before
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11/01/2004 12:07:34 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted? |
It's a bit like buying a record then complaining when it gets to number 1. |
That's flawed in many ways.
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11/01/2004 12:08:26 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted? |
It's a bit like buying a record then complaining when it gets to number 1. |
Record ? What's that then ? Are they still sold ? :)
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11/01/2004 12:11:47 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Watch all these people go quiet once they have 3 ribbons. hehe |
You have to be out shooting pictures, studying your pictures, and editing your pictures for this to happen.
NOT WHINING IN THE FORUMS ALL DAY LONG ABOUT SOMETHING YOU THINK YOU DESERVE, BUT HAVEN'T WORKED FOR. |
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11/01/2004 12:12:22 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted? |
What factors should be used in determining success/failure?
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11/01/2004 12:16:01 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Originally posted by jonpink:
Watch all these people go quiet once they have 3 ribbons. hehe |
You have to be out shooting pictures, studying your pictures, and editing your pictures for this to happen.
NOT WHINING IN THE FORUMS ALL DAY LONG ABOUT SOMETHING YOU THINK YOU DESERVE, BUT HAVEN'T WORKED FOR. |
I'm done here. I rolled my eyes when I saw that there was another forum complaining about the Master's challenge, but began to sincerely wonder why the decision was made and on what basis...
Rather than addressing my simple inquiry, I've been pigeon-holed.
Great community, indeed.
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11/01/2004 12:25:36 PM · #115 |
| Just wondering if anyone knows how many people will qualify to be in this challenge? |
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11/01/2004 12:28:40 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I voted. I didn't find it successful. Did I contribute to the impression of success just because I voted? |
It's a bit like buying a record then complaining when it gets to number 1. |
That's flawed in many ways. |
Hence the bit like bit.
Edit: How about: It's a bit like voting on Big Brother then complaining about all the reality TV shows.
Message edited by author 2004-11-01 12:42:48.
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11/01/2004 12:30:52 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Record ? What's that then ? Are they still sold ? :) |
Hey, music isn't music without all those pops, crackles and skips. Kids today don't know what their ears are for.
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11/01/2004 12:39:38 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Record ? What's that then ? Are they still sold ? :) |
Hey, music isn't music without all those pops, crackles and skips. Kids today don't know what their ears are for. |
You guys and all your fancy gadgets...here I am listening to my Edison Wax Cylinders!
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11/01/2004 12:48:07 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by bod:
It's a bit like buying a record then complaining when it gets to number 1. |
Yeah, I bought "The Birdie Song" by The Tweets too. |
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11/01/2004 12:51:29 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Then, mark it as a 'Masters' challenge, which in general might mean that viewers will at least assume the person taking the picture has a vague clue about what they are doing and it isn't a 'mistake' that it is blurry, out of focus or whatever.
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Mark it as a master because non-ribboners have no clue about impressionism?
Hmm, fortunately you can also read it with this in mind: "Perhaps this says more about the viewers/voters than it does about the photographers." :)
And to avoid double posts:
I too wonder why you now need three ribbons instead of two.
Next time four, than five, than six to ultimately get the Uber-master of DPC with 30 ribbons who gets an Emperor challenge with gold and diamants all for himself? And than we still have to put up with complaints about "who just gave me a 1?" and "400 votes and only 120 comments". :)
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11/01/2004 01:02:17 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by jadin:
Haha, or vote angry. 1's 2's and 3's across the board. ;) |
Why? What will this prove? |
As in "I'll show them!" and vote low. 1's 2's and 3's instead of 1's to make sure your votes count instead of are nullified for voting the same across the board.
It was complete sarcasm. Thus the winky face.
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11/01/2004 01:03:46 PM · #122 |
I am still convinced that something has been taken away from me. When an extra challenge is added that the vast majority of the community, registered users and paid members alike, are not eligible to enter, it:
1) takes away a chance for me to compete against the so-called Masters, and hopefully get a constructive comment from one of them;
2) takes away a challenge topic for which I may have had an inspiring idea for an entry (regardless of whether it was my suggestion or someone eles's);
3) takes away viewings, votes and comments from my entries in the other challenges by diluting the pool of potential viewers, voters and commenters;
4) it makes it more difficult for members like me to catch up with the Masters in ribbons;
5) it skews the statistics we use to measure our progress, and to compete with others, by giving the Masters a challenge where they don't have to compete against the general population of the community (think about how often we have seen ribbons go to first time entrants);
6) it reinforces the idea that the ribbon is the best measure of a persons contribution to the site, that the Masters somehow deserve a reward; and thereby belittles the contributions of the rest of us non-Masters.
Even if you can't see that it takes away from those not eligible, please try to come up with a better arguement in favor of it. |
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11/01/2004 01:05:39 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
I too wonder why you now need three ribbons instead of two. Next time four, than five, than six to ultimately get the Uber-master of DPC with 30 ribbons who gets an Emperor challenge with gold and diamants all for himself? And than we still have to put up with complaints about "who just gave me a 1?" and "400 votes and only 120 comments". :) |
The first challenge was three ribbons to enter. After many people saying "why not two?" they changed the requirement. I personally prefer three since it shows you've really mastered umm, something. One ribbon, you're a one hit wonder. Two ribbons you're on your way. Three, you've made it. If it was just two you'd go from one hit wonder to master. Not very logical.
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11/01/2004 01:09:39 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Me, me, me. |
What about a "qualifiers" challenge? Then we wouldn't have to listen to these endless complaints.
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11/01/2004 01:14:28 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I don't want to seem like I'm against the idea 'in principle'. I was excited about the first Master's Challenge. In a nutshell, here's my question:
The first Master's Challenge was deemed 'an experiment'. By what criteria was this experiment a success? |
cloud has raised a legitmate question. We've heard from ClubJuggle. But I'd like to see cloud's question addressed by some others of the people who were involved in making the decision. |
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