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10/18/2004 07:34:34 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by ScottK: I read the transcript Gordon referenced. Maybe I missed something in all the (CROSSTALK). Seemed to me he pretty much got spanked and man-handled. How, exactly, did he "tell it like it is"? |
I've not read the transcript, but this is one of those instances where text just won't do justice to the video clip -- what do they say about pictures and words and ten thousand!?
Jon basically had just one point to make, and that's that programs like CROSSFIRE (and similar talking-heads programs) damage public discourse, rather than inform it. In the clip, Jon's point -- in his always self-deprecating maner -- is hulariously clear.
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10/18/2004 07:36:06 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by achiral: i think stewart is right but he could have said what he wanted to say in a much more convincing way if he had anything to back up what we was saying other than what you're doing is wrong. he didn't seem as smart as i thought he was. |
he wanted to say more but didnt get a chance to, he got cut off more than once |
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10/18/2004 07:49:32 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by riotspyne:
he wanted to say more but didnt get a chance to, he got cut off more than once |
True. Regardless, he did a good job and if more people came on and complained about the partisan bickery BS that happens on all those shows, maybe things would change.
Props to Jon Stewart; and he is a comedian..
Strongest point:
QUESTION: Renee (ph) from Texas. Why do you think it's hard or difficult or impossible for politicians to answer a straight, simple question?
STEWART: I don't think it's hard. I just think that nobody holds their feet to the fire to do it. So they don't have to. |
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10/18/2004 09:32:01 PM · #29 |
That was actually where I thought he got spanked the most soundly. As both Carlson and Begala pointed out, he claims nobody holds their feet to the fire, when he started out chastising them for arguing and not being nice.
On the one hand, he does have a point, and I'm not a huge fan of these shows because (as the transcript actually makes painfully clear, even more than listening) of the amount of time wasted while everyone talks over each other - practically every third line of the trnascript is "(CROSSTALK)". On the other hand, so to Carlson/Begala, because these shows do tend to be the one place you can see politicians and pundits actually getting called out to defend what they say. You just can't hear it half the time.
It is a sad example of how uncivil the discourse has become in America.
Now we can all point the finger of blame at each other for why its become that way. Let the ranting begin...
Message edited by author 2004-10-18 21:32:44. |
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10/18/2004 09:33:26 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by bdobe: Originally posted by ScottK: I read the transcript Gordon referenced. Maybe I missed something in all the (CROSSTALK). Seemed to me he pretty much got spanked and man-handled. How, exactly, did he "tell it like it is"? |
I've not read the transcript, but this is one of those instances where text just won't do justice to the video clip -- what do they say about pictures and words and ten thousand!?
Jon basically had just one point to make, and that's that programs like CROSSFIRE (and similar talking-heads programs) damage public discourse, rather than inform it. In the clip, Jon's point -- in his always self-deprecating maner -- is hulariously clear. |
I'll try and remember to watch it when I get home tonight... |
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10/18/2004 09:45:33 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by ScottK: That was actually where I thought he got spanked the most soundly. As both Carlson and Begala pointed out, he claims nobody holds their feet to the fire, when he started out chastising them for arguing and not being nice.
On the one hand, he does have a point, and I'm not a huge fan of these shows because (as the transcript actually makes painfully clear, even more than listening) of the amount of time wasted while everyone talks over each other - practically every third line of the trnascript is "(CROSSTALK)". On the other hand, so to Carlson/Begala, because these shows do tend to be the one place you can see politicians and pundits actually getting called out to defend what they say. You just can't hear it half the time.
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Actually, you point out mainly what is wrong. They call them out, then totally ignore the answers. They rant, they rave, they argue. All the while totally ignoring the actual subtle realities of the situation, in favour of point scoring, or distortions to make the 'other side' always look bad.
It is all about opinions, rather than facts. It is all about scoring points, rather than debating issues. None of the news shows appear to actually want to inform, they want to share opinion and comment, rather than educate, debate or resolve. It would be more funny if it wasn't supposed to be the greatest democracy in the world.
But then, I don't get why WWE is popular either.
Message edited by author 2004-10-18 21:49:31. |
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10/18/2004 10:21:06 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Russell2566: I'm also worried about the numerous investigations into voter fraud, mostly by liberal run groups. |
I was beginning to worry that perhaps Russell was hurt or in some way kept from his keyboard so he couldn't elaborate on the allegations of "liberal groups" instigating voter fraud... But I think I figured it out... He's talking about the Republicans :) After all, which party took a budget surplus and spent their way in to a record deficit in just 4 short years? Damn liberal Republicans!!! Spend spend spend...
edit : Maybe he was arrested and is being held without charges or a lawyer, or notification to his family, for an indefinite period of time as allowed by the "Liberal" use of the Patriot Act :)
Message edited by author 2004-10-18 22:24:33.
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10/18/2004 10:30:11 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by myqyl: Originally posted by Russell2566: I'm also worried about the numerous investigations into voter fraud, mostly by liberal run groups. |
I was beginning to worry that perhaps Russell was hurt or in some way kept from his keyboard so he couldn't elaborate on the allegations of "liberal groups" instigating voter fraud... But I think I figured it out... He's talking about the Republicans :) After all, which party took a budget surplus and spent their way in to a record deficit in just 4 short years? Damn liberal Republicans!!! Spend spend spend...
edit : Maybe he was arrested and is being held without charges or a lawyer, or notification to his family, for an indefinite period of time as allowed by the "Liberal" use of the Patriot Act :) |
Maybe he was refering to this editorial from the NY Times:
October 18, 2004
Allegations of Electoral Crimes
Reports out of Nevada and Oregon indicate that a company paid to register voters for the Republican Party may have systematically destroyed registration forms filled out by Democrats. If so, thousands of voters who made a good-faith effort to register may not find themselves on the rolls on Nov. 2. Intentionally destroying voter registration forms is a crime against the heart of democracy. The allegations should be vigorously investigated. The immediate concern is ensuring that criminal actions by partisans do not disenfranchise any eligible voters.
A former employee of Voters Outreach of America has come forward to say that he saw the company, which was being paid by the Republican National Committee, destroy Democrats' registration forms in Nevada, while it was handing in forms filled out by Republicans.
The Oregon attorney general's office has opened its own criminal investigation into allegations that Voters Outreach may have destroyed voter registrations there. A public library system in Oregon has said that it barred the firm from library property after finding that it had misrepresented itself as being nonpartisan.
Nathan Sproul, a Republican political operative who heads the consulting company that hired Voters Outreach, attributed the reports of destroyed registration forms to a disgruntled former employee. He said the firm had a "misunderstanding" with the Oregon public library.
Destroying voter registration forms is not merely an ugly political trick; it can be a felony. The Department of Justice, and the states of Nevada and Oregon, should quickly and thoroughly investigate these allegations, and look into any registration work being done by Voters Outreach and Mr. Sproul in other states. The charges should be pursued wherever they lead. Since the Republican Party was paying the bills, questions should be asked about what instructions it gave for its registration drives, and what it knew about the alleged malfeasance.
It is vital that no eligible voters be denied a ballot because their registrations were destroyed. The Nevada Democratic Party has, quite reasonably, sued to extend the voter registration deadline. If the Nevada and Oregon registration deadlines are not extended, those states should announce that they will accept late registrations from any eligible voters who submit affidavits saying they filed registration forms with Voters Outreach canvassers.
No matter what, voters should show up to vote. If they are not on the rolls, they should insist on their right to a provisional ballot. If the election turns out to be as close as polls suggest in both states, people who voted provisionally will have a chance after Nov. 2 to insist that their votes be counted.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company |
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10/18/2004 10:58:52 PM · #34 |
^^^ That situation had better get addressed and right. When its happening to 2 states, how many is it happening to that we arent hearing about? And if this type of fraud is in full affect, what other types of fraud are we being subjected to?
Also, to those who buy the "liberal media" myth, how is this story not #1 subject in the news? The elections are 2 weeks away; there should be no larger subject. |
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10/18/2004 11:04:51 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by myqyl: I was beginning to worry that perhaps Russell was hurt or in some way kept from his keyboard so he couldn't elaborate on the allegations of "liberal groups" instigating voter fraud... |
Are you fucking kidding me... I go home after work and you guys turn into 4th graders because I wasn't immediatly available to answer a post on a website?
voter registration-crack cocaine scheme
Dead man on voter rolls sparks inquiry
1,000 cases of suspicious voter registrations
Some more fraud
Feds Probe Voter Fraud in South Dakota
That was with about 45 seconds on google, it wasn't too hard, and yes there are conservatives or republicans doing it as well. They are all scum bags. But lets be honest, the Libs are by far the best at getting illegal aliens, unregistered voters, ficticious or dead people and babies to vote for their canidates. Be proud about it for once :)
The Libs are so choked full of hate and anger this election that I think they could justify almost anything. Who knows, they might even be so blinded by their own hate that they think they are just evening the battle field by signing up thousands of illegal voters, and of course on the side trying to do things like not count the military vote... Did you all block out what they tried to pull and in some cases did pull in florida on the absentee military voters?
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Above I posed a question about the voting early. From the partial CNN article I read, I though actual polls were open. I didn't realize they were talking about the absentee ballots... Guess I read to quickly.
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And if I don't reply right away, its because I'm sleeping :) |
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10/18/2004 11:06:59 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon: Also, to those who buy the "liberal media" myth, how is this story not #1 subject in the news? The elections are 2 weeks away; there should be no larger subject. |
Becaue then they would have to highlight their own... It's funny how I can't even find an article on CNN about most of the voter fraud period. At least the Fox News' website seems to have lots of damning stories on both side... |
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10/18/2004 11:08:37 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon: ^^^ That situation had better get addressed and right. When its happening to 2 states, how many is it happening to that we arent hearing about? And if this type of fraud is in full affect, what other types of fraud are we being subjected to?
Also, to those who buy the "liberal media" myth, how is this story not #1 subject in the news? The elections are 2 weeks away; there should be no larger subject. |
Because, their is no proof they are true. They are allegations.
If its proven, then trust me the media will be all over it.
That being said, a fair election for both sides is what everyone wants. 99.9999 percent of people would say rigging an election is not the way to win.
Take this with a grain of salt, but it is amusing.
Message edited by author 2004-10-18 23:23:59. |
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10/18/2004 11:56:03 PM · #38 |
^^ Part of the media's job is to research allegations like this to determine there factualness, or lack there of. That is what media does (or is suppose to do), researches "stories" and then report what they find. |
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10/19/2004 12:09:13 AM · #39 |
Incredible! I guess our Republican friends belive that the examples cited below have not "occurred" -- please note #3, where a Republican party official has admitted guilt in court. The most malignant of these offenses is #1. Given that we live in America -- a shinning example of democracy to the rest of the world -- all citizens should be OUTRAGED that anyone would tarnish the name of American democracy by preventing our fellow citizens from exercising their RIGHT to vote. I am pissed off about the Oregon and Nevada voter registration card destruction (#1), which I see as the sort of thing I have come to expect from the Republican party. In my eyes, with this example, that party has proven once again how their rhetoric is completely empty of meaning, and how they'll do anything to win -- even if it means subverting the Constitution and trampling on basic human decency (not to mention federal law).
1. Republicans tear Democratic voter registration cards:
"I personally witnessed my supervisor at VOA, together with her personal assistant, destroy completed registration forms that VOA employees had collected," said Russell. "All of the destroyed registration forms were for registrants who indicated their party preference as 'Democrat.'" (link)
2. Ohio Secretary of State, a Republican, tried to invalidate voter registration cards because some of those new voter registration cards did not conform to an "archaic" rule requiring that the cards be on 80 lbs paper. Since the initial announcement the Secretary of State backpedaled and is now allowing those new registration cards to be counted. (link)
3. Phone jamming, initiated by Republican campaign operatives to suppress Democrats from voting in 2002 congressional election.
"Chuck McGee, the former executive director of the state Republican Party, pleaded guilty a few months ago to paying $15,600 to a Virginia telemarketing company to make the calls that jammed the get-out-the vote lines of Democrats the morning of the 2002 election." (link)
Message edited by author 2004-10-19 00:10:41.
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10/19/2004 12:17:22 AM · #40 |
Also Russell, I realize you don̢۪t have respect for the medium of conversation between multiple parties and how to keep it civil but; please stop making such extreme generalizations.
Originally posted by Russell2566: But lets be honest, the Libs are by far the best at getting illegal aliens, unregistered voters, ficticious or dead people and babies to vote for their canidates. |
Originally posted by Russell2566: The Libs are so choked full of hate and anger this election that I think they could justify almost anything. Who knows, they might even be so blinded by their own hate that they think they are just evening the battle field by signing up thousands of illegal voters, and of course on the side trying to do things like not count the military vote. |
I would be considered liberal many peoples meaning of the word and I subscribe to none of the above. Of all the people who participate in these discussions, you would be my 1st choice if asked "who has the most hate towards the other side". |
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10/19/2004 12:24:04 AM · #41 |
If anyone is proven of tampering with votes, or any kind illigal activity involving the voting process.....throw em in jail until they are old men, or for as long as the law lets them put them their.
I certainly have no compassion for any dirt bag that would sink that low. |
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10/19/2004 12:26:42 AM · #42 |
Ha, ha... if downloads are any way of measuring who won the Stewart vs. Crossfire match, I'd say that Jon Stewart delivered a knock-out blow. According to iFilm.com the clip has been downloaded over 500,000 thousand times from it's site, see here.
Of course, the iFilm.com count doesn't even include the views from the clip I posted on this thread. :)
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10/19/2004 12:32:35 AM · #43 |
Reading through the list it strikes me as humorous that your most reliable source is "Fox News" :) And even the Fox News story was about voter fraud that was UNCOVERED by the Democrats, not committed by them!
Curious... You say Liberal alot... How do you define it? Is a liberal someone that spends a lot more money than they have on their own self promoting projects? If so, President Bush is the biggest liberal in US political history :) I personally am a fiscal conservative, which is precisely why I support Senator Kerry.
But the simple fact of the matter is that you support President Bush and will not change no matter what is said, and that I support, well, anyone except President Bush and will not change no matter what is said... So to paraphrase a great quote... "nuff said" :)
Message edited by author 2004-10-19 00:34:47.
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10/19/2004 12:37:10 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by Riggs: If anyone is proven of tampering with votes, or any kind illigal activity involving the voting process.....throw em in jail until they are old men, or for as long as the law lets them put them their.
I certainly have no compassion for any dirt bag that would sink that low. |
Show some respect... That's the President's brother you're talking about :)
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10/19/2004 12:40:37 AM · #45 |
With the Diebold company providing the touch screen computer voting machines, and the same company having been large campaign contributors to Bush and the republicans, can anyone doubt that if there is election fraud to be had it's going to come from the republicans? This promises to be one of the most devisive elections in the history of this country and no matter what the results be, no one will be happy and there will be lawsuits. We may not know the next president until inauguration day. |
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10/19/2004 12:46:24 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Riggs: Originally posted by MadMordegon: ^^^ That situation had better get addressed and right. When its happening to 2 states, how many is it happening to that we arent hearing about? And if this type of fraud is in full affect, what other types of fraud are we being subjected to?
Also, to those who buy the "liberal media" myth, how is this story not #1 subject in the news? The elections are 2 weeks away; there should be no larger subject. |
Because, their is no proof they are true. They are allegations. |
That seems to make no difference in other legal situaltions, as Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson could tell you. |
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10/19/2004 12:55:54 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi: With the Diebold company providing the touch screen computer voting machines, and the same company having been large campaign contributors to Bush and the republicans, can anyone doubt that if there is election fraud to be had it's going to come from the republicans? This promises to be one of the most devisive elections in the history of this country and no matter what the results be, no one will be happy and there will be lawsuits. We may not know the next president until inauguration day. |
If computerized voting machines are used our next president will be a 14 year old from Ohio named Captain Hack
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10/19/2004 10:45:21 AM · #48 |
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10/20/2004 10:32:57 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by myqyl: Sorry, I mean the internetS :) |
Ya I didn̢۪t know there was more than one; apparently I was mistaken since the president said so.
Message edited by author 2004-10-21 02:49:02. |
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