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02/16/2016 12:35:39 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I have not gotten past the fact that a single outlier's "misuse" of it can cost a good image a top 10 or even a ribbon because for them 3 is "OK" and it drops a score in the mid-6's three spots with a single vote when only 50 are being cast. But that's the way it works, whether or not you or any one else understands. |
that's why this outlier votes the whole challenge. My vote is not going to bring a photo down unless it's relative to other photos I like more. |
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02/16/2016 02:09:56 PM · #52 |
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02/16/2016 04:16:19 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I have not gotten past the fact that a single outlier's "misuse" of it can cost a good image a top 10 or even a ribbon because for them 3 is "OK" and it drops a score in the mid-6's three spots with a single vote when only 50 are being cast. But that's the way it works, whether or not you or any one else understands. |
that's why this outlier votes the whole challenge. My vote is not going to bring a photo down unless it's relative to other photos I like more. |
Exactly. Please listen to reason and vote more not less. Thanks. |
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02/16/2016 04:29:49 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I have not gotten past the fact that a single outlier's "misuse" of it can cost a good image a top 10 or even a ribbon because for them 3 is "OK" and it drops a score in the mid-6's three spots with a single vote when only 50 are being cast. But that's the way it works, whether or not you or any one else understands. |
that's why this outlier votes the whole challenge. My vote is not going to bring a photo down unless it's relative to other photos I like more. |
Exactly. Please listen to reason and vote more not less. Thanks. |
Just so folks are clear, when I vote I vote on all entries (with rare exception - and if I skip an entry I'll usually comment saying why), and I do vote on most challenges provided I have a block of time to give each entry its due. |
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02/16/2016 04:37:42 PM · #55 |
The OP read:
"Tell EVERYONE the truth about their image.
Comment, folks.
Tell people... honestly... what you think of their image... If they complain... SC will let you know! Ha! But... even SC knows that honesty is the best policy. People are here to ... hear the truth about their image. They want to know ... ACTUALLY KNOW ... what you think about their image. "
My understanding was that the request was to help everyone be better by finding this mystical elusive "truth" and pure "honesty" that will somehow make people better photographers.
My suggestion is to take a look at photos that you like and/or did better than yours and research how they were done and come to an understanding why they are better.
Expecting DPC voters to enlighten all the photographers who need help during voting won't do much IMHO.
Also there is no way my so-called truth will go-over well; even stating my opinion of this topic here will get me flack =)
ETA: when you rate a photo low, you are telling the photog what you think. I would love to dig into my aesthetics and criticism literature and begin an analysis of every image in every challenge - andI could imagine doing that for a gallery show with 20 images that were up for 2 months. But at DPC there are 3+ challenges going on for only a week at a time. As if you didn't know ;)
Originally posted by tnun:
"But to expect someone to teach everyone how to take, edit, or find better photos in every comment is unrealistic."
But who was suggesting that? |
Message edited by author 2016-02-16 16:44:55. |
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02/16/2016 04:49:07 PM · #56 |
to GIVE criticism is rarely easy.
To take it you have no choice.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by tate:
I've said it before. Constructive criticism is rarely easy. |
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02/16/2016 05:03:06 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by tate:
The OP read:
My understanding was that the request was to help everyone be better by finding this mystical elusive "truth" and pure "honesty" that will somehow make people better photographers.
My suggestion is to take a look at photos that you like and/or did better than yours and research how they were done and come to an understanding why they are better.
Expecting DPC voters to enlighten all the photographers who need help during voting won't do much IMHO.
Also there is no way my so-called truth will go-over well; even stating my opinion of this topic here will get me flack =)
ETA: when you rate a photo low, you are telling the photog what you think. I would love to dig into my aesthetics and criticism literature and begin an analysis of every image in every challenge - andI could imagine doing that for a gallery show with 20 images that were up for 2 months. But at DPC there are 3+ challenges going on for only a week at a time. As if you didn't know ;)
Originally posted by tnun:
"But to expect someone to teach everyone how to take, edit, or find better photos in every comment is unrealistic."
But who was suggesting that? |
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Actually, receiving and giving comments here on DPC is exactly how I came to know what I know about photography. People here used to comment on the good and the bad... give suggestions about how to make it better... what they liked and what they didn't.
Then, they stopped. *sigh*
Now... if I get a 4.5 image (as I have now)... and either no comments or "fluffy" comments... I don't know what's wrong with it... I want to know. I don't want another 4.5 image.
My feelings don't get hurt if someone tells me the truth (as they see it, of course) about why they don't like my image. I WANT to know why they don't like my image. Finding out what's wrong with my image is SO MUCH more helpful to me. My family and friends tell me the good stuff.
I don't need a discussion afterward... just the comment that says what you think.
Actually think.
It's how all of us grow... learning what's good and what's bad about us in all areas of our lives. Here, it's photography.
That's my opinion. We all have one. :D
Message edited by author 2016-02-16 17:03:45. |
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02/16/2016 05:19:16 PM · #58 |
| OK. How do I tell which one is yours? During voting? |
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02/16/2016 06:12:31 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
OK. How do I tell which one is yours? During voting? |
LOL! You can't... Just comment with candor on all twenty-four of them... to encourage us all. :D
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02/16/2016 07:01:49 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I have not gotten past the fact that a single outlier's "misuse" of it can cost a good image a top 10 or even a ribbon because for them 3 is "OK" and it drops a score in the mid-6's three spots with a single vote when only 50 are being cast. But that's the way it works, whether or not you or any one else understands. |
that's why this outlier votes the whole challenge. My vote is not going to bring a photo down unless it's relative to other photos I like more. |
Yes. Very well put.
There was a psychology study a long time ago about studying, over different contexts, what people feel is morally permissible, obligatory, and forbidden. I will always remember one statistic. About 100 people were asked whether, if a child was drowning in a shallow and still pond, would they wade in to save the child knowing that you would ruin your trousers if they did. Three people said they would have declined. The fact of the matter is that a small number of people disagree with everybody else when it comes to drowning children. I don't view saving the child as a matter of choice, I would feel it's morally obligatory.
Back to photography. If we can't understand how people can make a 'let the child drown and save my pants' choices above, how the hell can we even begin to understand how people act in a vehicle that's literally fueled by personal preference? Just get over it! You're doing too much accounting if you're counting individual votes.
But, here's an interesting bit of accounting you may not have considered. Let's say that after voting your image received a final score of 6.0. It's a decent enough score. Now, here's a fact. You might grimace at receiving a 3, but a vote of 10 is of equal deviation from the mean. It's an equal outlier.
Anyway, if you come 11-th, you can always hope for a DQ! :-P
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02/16/2016 07:09:05 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Lydia:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
OK. How do I tell which one is yours? During voting? |
LOL! You can't... Just comment with candor on all twenty-four of them... to encourage us all. :D |
No. Respectfully, I decline. |
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02/16/2016 07:09:38 PM · #62 |
I thought you might. :)
It's all good.
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02/16/2016 09:38:00 PM · #63 |
| The "why did my image score low?" Threads get good traffic / responses ... |
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02/16/2016 09:47:36 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by tate:
The "why did my image score low?" Threads get good traffic / responses ... |
That's not how this started... but I can see how ... if you just joined in... you could get that idea.
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02/17/2016 03:21:48 AM · #65 |
I decided to do what Lydia challenged us to do and leave honest and frank comments. I didn't enjoy doing it. i won't be doing it again. I dislike having my comments steeped in judgement even if the judgement was explaining my expectations and how images didn't match these. my average vote was significantly lower than average, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with commenting on the images, or that this was a hard challenge to shoot interesting images for.
I felt I had to find fault with images and their context. Normally I prefer to do it the opposite way. Find something to like. It was an Interesting exercise all the same.
With 24 images it was not too much effort either. Would recommend to a friend.
Message edited by author 2016-02-17 03:24:21.
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02/17/2016 02:33:57 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
I decided to do what Lydia challenged us to do and leave honest and frank comments. I didn't enjoy doing it. i won't be doing it again. I dislike having my comments steeped in judgement even if the judgement was explaining my expectations and how images didn't match these. my average vote was significantly lower than average, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with commenting on the images, or that this was a hard challenge to shoot interesting images for.
I felt I had to find fault with images and their context. Normally I prefer to do it the opposite way. Find something to like. It was an Interesting exercise all the same.
With 24 images it was not too much effort either. Would recommend to a friend. |
Ah that explains it. Thought your comment wasn't really your style. However you did make fair points about my shoe horn. |
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02/17/2016 03:03:39 PM · #67 |
The interesting thing about negative comments here is that they are relatively few and far between. So for me, I must admit, they stuck with me and I DID for the most part remember them and use them as a learning tool.
So even though I've been a bit cynical in my posts, I do appreciate critical comments when they are provided on certain images. I think simple images where focus or exposure is obviously off - images that beginners might submit, fall into the category where somewhat objective truth in comments will help.
As for the number of comments here at DPC. I compared the following challenges:
Rain (08-05): 227 entries, 3,764 total comments, 67,692 votes--> ETA: avg # of comments: 17
Rain II (09-06): 127 entries, 1,712 comments, 42,585 votes
Rain III (08-13): 72 entries, 181 comments, 5,447 votes
Rain IV (08-15): 60 entries, 111 comments, 3902 votes--> ETA: avg # of comments: 2
Drastically reduced interest in DPC is a major cause, obviously. But statistically, comments are proportionally reduces as well. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive though - if the pool of images is smaller, the overall awesomenss of the results will likely draw less of a crowd.
Anyway, my renewed interest in DPC .. I don't know where it came from. I'm guessing Obama.
Message edited by author 2016-02-17 15:58:27. |
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02/17/2016 03:45:43 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
I decided to do what Lydia challenged us to do and leave honest and frank comments. I didn't enjoy doing it. i won't be doing it again. I dislike having my comments steeped in judgement even if the judgement was explaining my expectations and how images didn't match these. my average vote was significantly lower than average, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with commenting on the images, or that this was a hard challenge to shoot interesting images for.
I felt I had to find fault with images and their context. Normally I prefer to do it the opposite way. Find something to like. It was an Interesting exercise all the same.
With 24 images it was not too much effort either. Would recommend to a friend. |
I applaud you for doing it (it must be the one challenge I'm not in. I won't be following your lead. Though I came here in search of honest and quantitative feedback in the time I've been here I've learned that I'm in the vast minority where that's concerned. I will be brutally honest in my assessment where I find I don't need to dig into my head instead of my heart to find it. If the image has no real affect on me I will judge it with a number as usual but not with words I need to dig for.
Constructive criticism is as far as I'll go with any critical comment here. The rest demand a conversation that would probably start with, "What are you trying to show me in this photo - or is this just about entering a picture that manages to meet the challenge category?" I'm more than willing to have that conversation, but I'm not going to ask for it, and I certainly won't invite open hostility with words that weren't asked for. |
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02/18/2016 09:16:11 AM · #69 |
You have rated 24 of 24 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 24 images (96%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.9167.
I started out thinking critically, but I just don't see the point of putting my thoughts of that direction on paper.
So I commented on all, bumped a few. I do find that my votes go higher when I comment. Try it!! |
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02/18/2016 11:47:50 AM · #70 |
| I'm fascinated by this thread - it's been all over the board, and is now also a scores thread! |
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02/18/2016 11:56:38 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
I'm fascinated by this thread - it's been all over the board, and is now also a scores thread! |
That was the scores for my voting only.... and my point was that I made comments on all the images in the challenge but didn't critique. |
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02/18/2016 03:04:01 PM · #72 |
| This is an i don't like my 4.5 thread in disguise. I reckon it must be because of a flash of genius. |
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02/21/2016 10:20:47 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
You have rated 24 of 24 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 24 images (96%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.9167.
I started out thinking critically, but I just don't see the point of putting my thoughts of that direction on paper.
So I commented on all, bumped a few. I do find that my votes go higher when I comment. Try it!! |
I'll give it a go...24 images isn't huge. I'll comment as I would in a face to face crit. The comments will be short-ish...a gut reaction sort of thing, a starting point. |
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02/21/2016 11:42:03 AM · #74 |
"Congratulations, you have already commented on every photograph! Give yourself a pat on the back."
Is that new? I love it! It's been a while since I commented 100%.
You have rated 25 of 25 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 25 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.0400.
I was generous to some, not so much to others...it is but one opinion. |
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