The Masters Dilemma - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

09/30/2004 12:27:59 PM · #126

Originally posted by jjbeguin:

Carry on; just make sure youâ��re constantly and consistently disappointed with your work.
Thatâ��s my secret recipe.
All the best, JJ

Then I'm off to a great start! How ironically encouraging.

Imagineer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/30/2004 12:33:09 PM · #127

As far as winning challenge recipes go, I reckon a lot of the results are down to how much you want to win a ribbon. Apart from my 'Words', 'Feet' and 'Flight' entries I have seldom put more than 15-30 minutes of effort in. If you look at most of the set-up shots they have taken much more time and dedicated thought.

I'm not normally willing to invest in them that much time just to win a Gif, so I'm not surprised that I'm excluded from this one!

And JJ - I am at least on a par with you for constant disappointment. : )

PS. thatcloudthere - my suggestion was with tongue firmly in cheek ; )

09/30/2004 12:37:01 PM · #128

Originally posted by Imagineer:

PS. thatcloudthere - my suggestion was with tongue firmly in cheek ; )

My apologies...I'm still trying to get to know everyone around here, so I never know how to respond when somebody presents a whacky idea!

:0)

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 12:37:45.

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/30/2004 01:35:12 PM · #129

...and here I thought I was going to launch a hornet's nest of discussion. My biggest epiphany's seem to draw a "Yeah, whatever" response. Nothing but crickets and tumbleweeds. Maybe it's only a breakthrough realization to me?

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 13:35:41.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

09/30/2004 01:49:17 PM · #130

Originally posted by scalvert:

The ideas you posted are correct. The subject choice seems to be the most important element. The rest of the criteria don't matter much if the subject is not strong. I have only seen one or two instances here where I thought the subject choice was overridden by technique on a winning photo.

09/30/2004 01:51:10 PM · #131

Originally posted by scalvert:

I disagree, but maybe the problem is that we're talking about two different things...I'm not sure.

There is a whole other world of photography out there. Generally speaking, DPC attracts a certain type of photographer and certain types of photographs win.

The "recipe" includes the things you described, but I believe that there are certain types of images that are much more likely to win on this site.

It doesn't mean that they don't deserve to win. It just means that if you know the culture of dpc and the types of photos that are preferred at this site, you will get better scores by submitting photos that are given higher scores by the dpc population. These same photos could very well score low on other sites which focus more on the emotive and "moment-capturing" aspects of photography.

09/30/2004 02:03:50 PM · #132

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

The subject choice seems to be the most important element. The rest of the criteria don't matter much if the subject is not strong. I have only seen one or two instances here where I thought the subject choice was overridden by technique on a winning photo.

Agreed, and that's why I put those three steps in order. Each steps builds upon the prior one, and the concept or subject matter is the foundation. It's hard to take a good picture of a bad idea, and you can't really tweak a bad composition in Photoshop (cropping is your only hope).

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Generally speaking, DPC attracts a certain type of photographer and certain types of photographs win. The "recipe" includes the things you described, but I believe that there are certain types of images that are much more likely to win on this site.

I believe this premise is a misconception that isn't supported by the challenge history. I can find winning examples of cats, kids, flowers or anything else that voters supposedly hate. Any photographer can win with any type of photograph if those three basic rules are applied well.

09/30/2004 02:07:43 PM · #133

Originally posted by scalvert:

Any photographer can win with any type of photograph if those three basic rules are applied well.

Although I don't disagree that this is a possibility, would you not agree with my opinion that the images on DPC aren't representative of the full spectrum of photography?

09/30/2004 02:31:44 PM · #134

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

...the images on DPC aren't representative of the full spectrum of photography?

Of course they're not... they're challenge-specific because this is a focused site. Many challenges lend themselves to (or even require) a particular technique or subject. The free studies have a broader range of subjects and techniques.

09/30/2004 03:00:04 PM · #135

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
...the images on DPC aren't representative of the full spectrum of photography?

Of course they're not... they're challenge-specific because this is a focused site. Many challenges lend themselves to (or even require) a particular technique or subject. The free studies have a broader range of subjects and techniques.

um...I meant overall.

I'm not sure how else to try and explain my thoughts on this...I'm simply opining that studio-esque shots have a much better chance of pleasing the average dpc-voter than photojournalistic or candid shots which capture emotion and moment.

Part of this is definitely due to the fact that studio/setup shots can be adapted and created to suit the challenge whereas photos that emphasize emotions/moments can usually only capture what's already there.
I'm not trying to create a false dichotomy between two different "kinds" of photos, but on this site I certainly see a tendancy towards crispness and technical excellence (which are good things) more than towards emotion and candour (also good things) in the winning photos.

09/30/2004 03:12:03 PM · #136

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm simply opining that studio-esque shots have a much better chance of pleasing the average dpc-voter than photojournalistic or candid shots which capture emotion and moment.

I understand where you're going with this, but I don't think it's a cause-and-effect relationship. If there are more studio setup shots, it's because they are more convenient and potentially easier to shoot, not because they score better in the voting. Fewer people are willing to leave the comfort of a well-compressed desk chair to go out and shoot candid or photojournalistic shots in return for a chance to win a few colored pixels. Recent security/privacy concerns make those type of shots even less attractive, whereas anyone can gather a few props and a desk lamp.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/30/2004 04:17:43 PM · #137

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I'm simply opining that studio-esque shots have a much better chance of pleasing the average dpc-voter than photojournalistic or candid shots which capture emotion and moment.

I understand where you're going with this, but I don't think it's a cause-and-effect relationship. If there are more studio setup shots, it's because they are more convenient and potentially easier to shoot, not because they score better in the voting. Fewer people are willing to leave the comfort of a well-compressed desk chair to go out and shoot candid or photojournalistic shots in return for a chance to win a few colored pixels. Recent security/privacy concerns make those type of shots even less attractive, whereas anyone can gather a few props and a desk lamp.

That may be why, in my opinion, dpc attracts a certain genre of photographer who will often vote according to what he/she prefers...or, if you will, you could say that dpc repels a certain type of photographer...the type that doesn't enjoy the technical excellence nearly as much as the moment.

Of course, achieving both 'technical excellence' and 'capturing the moment' would be preferrable but it can also be a matter of priority, which I believe this site exemplifies.

This is all speaking very generally as I admit there are exceptions...

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

09/30/2004 04:33:59 PM · #138

Again I am drawn to comment with great pleasure.

This is a learning site and as such it makes little sense to handle a camera if you do not know thr basics. Once you sharpen your skills you will be much more prepared for all the candid and emotive images you love. DPC is assignment driven and while it does a lot to help many improve their technique, it also offers the more advance mental stimulation in the creative process by presenting the assignments in a novel manners.

This is not a fine art site, but it emcompasses enough to keep someone who wants feed back on their work, and a grading system. The place is great.

Look at the last two challenges. Look at the touch winner...is that not beautiful or what. And look at the Terje shot...is that not technically perfect.

So, there is enough variety, as much as can be allowed for a learning place. Not all here are so inbred. Many have outside photography interests and even business.

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 16:43:28.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/30/2004 04:41:13 PM · #139

Maybe a "Fine Art" challenge would be fun... Descrpition: Submit a photo that you believe qualifies as "Fine Art"... Could be a good topic for a second masters challenge...

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 16:42:15.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/30/2004 04:44:20 PM · #140

It's interesting that people seem to be drawn into the defensive when somebody says that a certain recipe for a photo will do better on this site than another recipe.

Nobody (at least not I) says that this makes dpc a bad place. I'm simply presenting the thought (which graphicfunk seems to confirm) that there is a whole other world of photography out there which is not represented in here.

I love this site too! There are no 'buts' about that...

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

09/30/2004 04:48:12 PM · #141

I second that. I am surprised that such events have not taken place. If so, then Setzler's idea is on the money. I think it would be a great vehicle for instruction and expand DPC's realm.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/30/2004 04:57:02 PM · #142

Thank goodness the grizzling stops tomorrow!

Anyone would think you are on a death sentence, it's a challenge.

Only let 'masters' judge the 'masters challenge', what a cop out. Feeling the pressure?

I suppose the 'general masses' don't know a good photo if it jumps out and bites them?

Unfortunately, 'Masters', we, the lowlifes get to judge this:)))

Stop whining, brace yourselves and think of England...USA...Europe...Oz...whichever fits. It is your world today, but tomorrow it becomes our world. Maaaawwwhhhaaaaa!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/30/2004 04:59:43 PM · #143

When I read your post, I noticed that Wolfie is just one letter away from being an anagram with lowlife!

I'm not calling you a lowlife or anything, it just sort of jumped out at me! :0)

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 16:59:59.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/30/2004 04:59:45 PM · #144

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

This is a learning site and as such it makes little sense to handle a camera if you do not know thr basics.

Once you sharpen your skills you will be much more prepared for all the candid and emotive images you love. DPC is assignment driven and while it does a lot to help many improve their technique, it also offers the more advance mental stimulation in the creative process by presenting the assignments in a novel manners.

I broke up your paragraph, because the first sentence seemed to contradict the rest. As is clear from my scores, I concentrate on the interpretation of the topic, trying to find and (competently) compose an interesting and original presentation, while placing less emphasis on technical tricks or quality.

Not that I don't try to improve my technical skills (finally got a shot of the moon which is not just a blob of light!), but of the two major aspects of photography, my own priority leans towards conception and composition.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/30/2004 05:00:59 PM · #145

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

When I read your post, I noticed that Wolfie is just one letter away from being an anagram with lowlife!

i.e. fowl?