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09/20/2004 08:34:39 PM · #26 |
Oh come on. Let's see some pictures in this challenge or it won't be much of a challenge.
This could be a growing experience for the newbies. To not just take a pretty picture but to also add a story to it.
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09/20/2004 08:40:00 PM · #27 |
Jeez! All this over a photo submission? Man, it's not as if you have your finger on the doom's day device. Just submit something and move on to something else.
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09/20/2004 08:44:20 PM · #28 |
My advice is not to submit something UNLESS you really like it and feel it's a fine photograph. If you are proud of it, and would hang it on your wall, then submit it.
That's why I haven't entered many challenges lately (besides having a broken camera for a while). I took pictures with my new Canon for Stop Motion II, but I didn't like any of them enough to enter one. I had two that weren't bad, and it might have been fun to enter them anyway, but I didn't like them enough myself, so how could I expect others to!
I think I can say that I've applied that rule to at least 90% of the 31 challenges I entered over the course of my first year. I'll exclude the first few entries from that as I was acclimating to the environment.
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09/20/2004 08:50:21 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Jeez! All this over a photo submission? Man, it's not as if you have your finger on the doom's day device. Just submit something and move on to something else. |
: ) My thouhgts exactly. |
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09/20/2004 09:32:25 PM · #30 |
| I was the third person to upload a submission to the master's challenge, so yes, I will definetely be submitting. I am, as usual, submitting with little to no hope of winning a ribbon. There have been a few occasions when I have a photo that I think is perfect for a challenge but generally I just like to submit my own kind of thing. I've been getting very positive feedback lately and have managed to get most of my recent shots in the low 6's. The most important statistic on the site, in my opinion, is favorites. I hope to get at least 10 favorites on my Master's photo and come in the top 25. Should I not submit without the goal of getting a ribbon? I don't think so... |
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09/20/2004 10:51:07 PM · #31 |
Thanks to everyone for your feedback on this issue. I think I have made a decision finally :)
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09/21/2004 01:17:43 AM · #32 |
The main reason I am here at DPC and I guess most other people too is to take part in the challenges, in the battle to score as highly as possible and hopefully even win a ribbon. In order to do this and gain a high placing one has to submit a photo which uses the winning recipe you mentioned as much as possible, it's as easy as that!
If I whan to do emotive and other kinds of phtography then I can do that for myself or other people/websites or put them in my portfolio, whatever. There is a whole large world out there besides DPC. |
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09/21/2004 01:41:23 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Thanks to everyone for your feedback on this issue. I think I have made a decision finally :) |
And will we find out what it is?
Or do we HAVE to wait until the end of the month?
:)
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09/21/2004 01:48:18 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Thanks to everyone for your feedback on this issue. I think I have made a decision finally :) |
And will we find out what it is?
Or do we HAVE to wait until the end of the month?
:) |
I have decided to submit to the challenge :)
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09/21/2004 03:08:55 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by kiwiness:
The main reason I am here at DPC and I guess most other people too is to take part in the challenges, in the battle to score as highly as possible and hopefully even win a ribbon. In order to do this and gain a high placing one has to submit a photo which uses the winning recipe you mentioned as much as possible, it's as easy as that!
If I whan to do emotive and other kinds of phtography then I can do that for myself or other people/websites or put them in my portfolio, whatever. There is a whole large world out there besides DPC. |
I agree with this completely. However, I think I have found a possible new 'self challenge' in it as well. I am going to try to win a ribbon in some challenge with a candid/emotive photo. That would possibly prove to be more of a challenge for me in the long run. The free study is probably a good forum for that. A lot of challenge topics don't lend themselves well to the idea.
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09/21/2004 03:13:50 AM · #36 |
john you have some great pics,
to me photography is fun and i shoot a shot that has a value to me, if it does well in a challenge fine if not it still has that value to me, the best option would be to submit one of your shots you have been working on cos you know that shot will mean more to you than shooting a set up picture for the challenge
neil (tragicharpy) |
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09/21/2004 03:14:35 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by JPR:
I was the third person to upload a submission to the master's challenge, so yes, I will definetely be submitting. I am, as usual, submitting with little to no hope of winning a ribbon. There have been a few occasions when I have a photo that I think is perfect for a challenge but generally I just like to submit my own kind of thing. I've been getting very positive feedback lately and have managed to get most of my recent shots in the low 6's. The most important statistic on the site, in my opinion, is favorites. I hope to get at least 10 favorites on my Master's photo and come in the top 25. Should I not submit without the goal of getting a ribbon? I don't think so... |
I was first to submit so neh neh neh :)
Hehe :)
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09/21/2004 05:09:09 AM · #38 |
Personally I always submit what interests ME rather than the voters.
I actually don't agree that door number 1 (trying to shoot according to the winning formula) is done for others. You do that in order to give yourself the good feeling of winning and being admired. This is just as selfish as door number 2 where you submit only what you like yourself.
Doors 1 and 2 are both "for yourself". The only difference is that door 1 is ultimately shallow.
For those of us that haven't yet mastered how to take a photo that fits the "winning formula", however, I believe there is still value in attempting it. Only when we have improved our basic photography skills can we start to develop our own style. Congratulations to all you masters that have passed beyond the basics and who are now developing their style like Setz.
John
Message edited by author 2004-09-21 05:09:32. |
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09/21/2004 05:37:38 AM · #39 |
I think it would be a shame if the masters challenge became a king of the hill challenge. I think it would be that way if all who entered, entered to please the masses.
The masters challenge would be much more interesting if everyone who entered, sent in an image that protrays their style or what they are working on, on their own time. Their passion.
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09/21/2004 11:46:37 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by floyd:
Doors 1 and 2 are both "for yourself". The only difference is that door 1 is ultimately shallow.
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Door #1 is a very important door though. Pursuing door #1 in the past, in my opinion, has made me a much stronger photograper in general. Choosing that option is where I learned how to control my camera instead of letting it control me. I don't think it's 'shallow'. I think it's an important step in learning good photography. The resulting shots of the door #1 shooting may or may not have emotional depth, but the lessons we learn from doing those shots will flow into any other avenue of photography we choose in the future.
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09/21/2004 12:00:31 PM · #41 |
| John, I think I can understand your dilemma but would not presume to tell you which door to choose. However, you have gained an additional measure of respect from me (and it should also come from the entire dpc community) for starting this thread. Bringing the debate about formulaic/recipe type shots versus high quality emotive/candid images to the fore is a service to us all. All newbies should be forced to study up on the subject before they can vote. Thanks. |
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09/21/2004 12:06:52 PM · #42 |
I think door #1 is important for some other reasons as well. If you have aspirations of doing professional work for clients, you need to produce the type of images that they want, not the ones that you think are important. From my perspective, door #1 is the same as an assignment from a client and your are competing with other photographers to best meet that assignment. Door #2 is like any self motivated and funded project.
Message edited by author 2004-09-21 12:27:15. |
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09/21/2004 12:09:22 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Konador:
I was first to submit so neh neh neh :)
Hehe :) |
I was the first to submit to complexity!
Loser!
hahaha :) |
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09/21/2004 12:11:47 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
I think door #1 is important for some other reasons as well. If you have aspirations of doing professional work for clients, you need to product that type of images that they want, not the ones that you think are important. From my perspective, door #1 is the same as an assignment from a client and your are competing with other photographers to best meet that assignment. Door #2 is like any self motivated and funded project. |
I agree, marketability isn't the devil and it would be too easy to swing the pendulum too far the other way...
It is important to recognize a difference between 1 and 2, however, and I think this thread has been an interesting discussion of that. |
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09/21/2004 12:25:52 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I agree, marketability isn't the devil and it would be too easy to swing the pendulum too far the other way...
It is important to recognize a difference between 1 and 2, however, and I think this thread has been an interesting discussion of that. |
There definitely is a difference. And like I said before, there is nothing wrong with choosing either path. I think my point, in a nutshell, is that door #2 photos can't really compete with door #1 photos on a mass appeal scale. The real challenge, for me, is to produce a winning photo that comes from the candid/emotive school of thought while competing against the formulaic 'winning' shots.
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09/21/2004 12:37:21 PM · #46 |
So, now that you have made the decision can I ask some question about your approach to candid/emotive work with digital? The 35mm rangefinder, Leica M series mostly, is/was probably the most common film based camera system for this style of photography. It was small, quiet, and it skill hands could be operated very quickly (zone focus at the hip, to the eye, and snap). Are you using your 10D for this type of work or having you been looking at other options.
I ask because my 10D attracts a lot more attention than my old Nikon F3 SLR and I find even entering a room with it can be more disruptive than I would want for true candid work. |
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09/21/2004 12:40:17 PM · #47 |
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09/21/2004 12:46:17 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
I ask because my 10D attracts a lot more attention than my old Nikon F3 SLR and I find even entering a room with it can be more disruptive than I would want for true candid work. |
Responding in the 'candid' thread...
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09/21/2004 12:49:12 PM · #49 |
| Ok... I have moved myself over to the candid thread for this discussion. |
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09/21/2004 03:03:29 PM · #50 |
I think a major factor is who will be voting. Quite possibly, many of us 'masters' are more receptive to exploratory methods and techniques in photography than the average voter (granted, that may not be true, but it's the sense I get). If so called 'masters' are the only ones voting, I strongly suspect that more emotive photos such as John posits will do better than if everyone votes. It could just be that some 'masters' know the 'rules' of photography well enough to break them once in a while (or see them broken effectively) when other elements, such as emotive qualities, are more important.
Or am I 'up in the night?'
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