Required Reading? - DPChallenge Forums

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

03/03/2012 11:00:21 AM · #1

So my question is - Should Challenge Suggestion and Current Challenge forum threads be required reading before one places their entry in a challenge?

I've noticed that there is a lot of discussion about topics and that sometimes the stated challenge rules even get twisted or things get added. Here are my two recent cases in point:

1. In the case of the Ken Challenge, there were extra rules in the challenge description about allowing the "borrowing" of other people's source images, but none of them pointed to the page of godzillas and woodies that were offered in the challenge thread. I, for one, was really surprised to open up the gallery and find most of the entries covered with similar, albeit appropriate, images that belonged to Ken! Was there adequate information in the challenge description?

2. In the upcoming art challenge, there is ongoing question and discussion about whether or not we are allowed to use images that exist in our portfolio but have never been entered in a challenge. Well of course we can, the rules state: "you may NOT use the same original image in more than one challenge". But when the thread gets going and people start responding with their opinions about this, people don't know what the real answer is. This challenge was not planned for as the Best Of 2011 was so what do we do?

I know these are slightly different cases, but I so wish that if rules get changed or added as a result of a forum thread, that they be brought to Langdon's attention and that the actual challenge description be reworded... that is unless, of course, the forum threads are considered required reading.

Message edited by author 2012-03-03 11:01:18.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/03/2012 11:06:06 AM · #2

I'm not really a fan of the threads you note, in any case. I think they make everybody think there is only one means of going about it, that there is a strictly correct idea. I'd rather have some folks suffer the depression of missing the boat than a whole slew of boring shots.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/03/2012 11:16:23 AM · #3

Penny,

I see your point on the Roflmao challenge. A lot of people will not have read the thread associated, and will not have been aware of the library of images released by Art or, indeed, the blanket usage permissions being given by various members. But all of that came up kind of after the announcement, and it was sort of hard to plan for; the challenge took on a very ARTistic life of its own :-)

But for the current "Art of 2011" challenge the challenge page itself says all anyone needs to know. Nothing is changed from any normal challenge/challenge rules except that the legal image timespan is all of 2011 and we have 2 weeks to choose and enter our image. And a jury's been added, of course, but that doesn't affect what's legal/illegal at all. The advanced editing rules for this challenge are the same as they always have been.

And anyway, there IS a link in the "Art of 2011" challenge rules/description to the page that is discussing the challenge: "Extra Rules: This challenge has the added benefit of being juried. See discussion here."

So I'm not sure what you mean when you say "This challenge was not planned for as the Best of 2011 was so what do we do?" To whatever extent the usage of previously posted, but not entered, images is an issue to be explored, it's always an issue for any of the month-long or year-long free studies, and there never has been a rule against it, and different members have different opinions as to whether or not it's cool to be doing that, and what else is new?

None of this is meant to refute you, btw: juist my attempt to look at the situiation myself.

R.

03/03/2012 11:20:58 AM · #4

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

I'm not a particular fan either, but that's my point... if things are discussed there that challenge the topic description, shouldn't the official description change?
As it stands now, there is real possibility for feeling like the odd man out at rollover unless you've worked your way through pages and pages of chat. (Ha ha ha... okay maybe being the odd man out isn't such a bad thing, and I'm pretty sure that may be your point but you get what I mean).

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/03/2012 11:30:12 AM · #5

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

So I'm not sure what you mean when you say "This challenge was not planned for as the Best of 2011 was so what do we do?" To whatever extent the usage of previously posted, but not entered, images is an issue to be explored, it's always an issue for any of the month-long or year-long free studies, and there never has been a rule against it, and different members have different opinions as to whether or not it's cool to be doing that, and what else is new?

None of this is meant to refute you, btw: juist my attempt to look at the situiation myself.

R.

I guess I just don't know what to do here myself - I usually don't post FS images that I've put out anywhere in public. And I knew the "best of" challenge was coming so I looked for it and saved it. But in this case, what do I do if what I like has already been in my portfolio? What if it only had 8 hits? What if it had 180 hits and 20 comments? And when it comes up in the thread (yes, the one that is linked to) everyone has something different to say about it. I wish there were a definitive answer.

But I'll be honest, the Roflmao challenge is my real issue.

LevT

OM System OM-1

03/03/2012 11:42:08 AM · #6

I think you can put a previously posted image in one of these "Best of" challenges regardless of how broadly it had been exposed, whether it had 8 or 8000 views, without feeling bad. As long as it had not been in any of eariler challenges, you are fine. (well-recognizable) people put their self-portraits in regular challenges all the time, so how can this be any worse?

LevT

OM System OM-1

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/03/2012 11:43:49 AM · #7

of course people may deduct points after recognizing it, but that's the risk you would be taking. Some other people can up their votes, to balance this out :)

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

03/03/2012 11:48:26 AM · #8

Originally posted by LevT:

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/03/2012 01:11:14 PM · #9

I think the discussions do serve a purpose for those interested. My wife was voting on the oscars challenge and was complaining that many of the entries were not Oscar winning movies. I informed her that any movie is ok for this challenge. If she had been in the discussion or just read the description in addition to the title, she would have known that. Just the title alone often gets misinterpreted.

I'm often in those discussion, or at least lurking in them, but I don't feel it influences my decision on what to enter, other than perhaps sometime giving the the spark of an idea.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

03/03/2012 01:22:06 PM · #10

i wasn't aware of the free usage material made available. in fact its why i didn't enter, i was going to makeshift a Godzilla out of a toy story rex, but thought it would work well so i didn't.

i wish i had known about this.

i made a point in the other thread placing special rules in the discussion threads, i frequent this discussion board but i don't read every thread. i didn't read that one. i just happen to click on the other thread to ask a question and low and behold there is a jury voting?

maybe highlight the threads so they standout like langdon does or at least maybe edit the title to include "SPECIAL RULES..." or even better put it all in the challenge description.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

03/03/2012 02:56:41 PM · #11

There are two choices, as I see it.
1. Add the additional info in the challenge description.
2. Add a link to the forum thread in the challenge description with a note that rules (maybe that's not the best word) may change based on what may be found there.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/03/2012 03:25:23 PM · #12

there was a link added to the art of 2011 thread. the problem is that thread i last checked was 6 pages deep, could we consolidate it?

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/03/2012 03:32:27 PM · #13

Originally posted by mike_311:

there was a link added to the art of 2011 thread. the problem is that thread i last checked was 6 pages deep, could we consolidate it?

Just read every other word. ;D

Seriously though, most challenge have a thread devoted to them. In most cases it's just people arguing over interpretation. There's the occasional question about rules. But I've been burned sometimes for not reading them only to find everyone is voting against a particular something or other and that happened to be my interpretation. I almost missed Ken's announcement releasing his portfolio. But I really don't think there is anyway to avert these things unless you read the threads.

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

03/03/2012 05:02:51 PM · #14

I totally agree that there was a problem with the description on Art_Roflmao challenge. I read the description and, although I do call Ken a friend, I would not have wanted to bother him, as I assumed everyone was, with permission to use a photo. I'd have done something else if I had not seen the thread.

I agree with Penny that the description in this case should have been altered to include the links to the generous gifts Ken gave to us to use (especially since the description itself said it might change... *hilarious!*).

Raw deal on that one, for sure, for anyone who did not see the thread and the offerings which were lost in the chatter of the thread.

It's hard to be perfect... I don't think it's Langdon's fault at all ... well, unless someone pointed it out to him and he did nothing.

Of course, I did nothing... *sigh* I'm ashamed.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/03/2012 06:22:54 PM · #15

Penny,

This is always a good topic to bring up. The problem I have is when the Challenge has no description and then, through some thread, the general feelings about dnmc are laid out and group think acquiescence.

But for a challenge like The ROFLMAO challenge, it could have been useful and set up better.

But in the challenge description,

"Ken has a unique and comical style. Specializing in off the wall imagery, Ken has a way of putting a smiles on faces. Take a photo... er... just upload an original work of Art while taking inspiration from Ken's epic portfolio." it was pretty confusing.

and in the extra rules, they basically said do whatever you want- just without going to far? without text? I'm with Lydia, I assumed permissions for this challenge.