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02/03/2012 06:07:09 AM · #1 |
Hi everyone, has this happened to you? As a lot of you know, it has been a while since I have entered challenges. I have been enjoying my camera and taking pictures but when it comes to editing them, I feel lost.
I will go out and take pictures for challenges, come home and edit them but nothing I do in editing seems to take the out-of-camera photo to the next level. I have read the rules on the different editing types but for some reason I cannot pull the trigger and enter. The photos just do not emotionally charge me.
When I do go deep, into editing I am scared I have may have done something that would violate a rule and when I hold back on editing, I may as well enter a photo straight out of the camera. I feel trapped in the editing phase with no way out.
Any advice?
/Scott
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02/03/2012 06:10:59 AM · #2 |
| Scott, I am like this with EVERY challenge I think about entering - and you'll note, I mostly don't end up entering at all. So, advice for you is the same as advice for me. Stuff it, edit how you want, get opinions via pm or otherwise about the legality of said editing, and enter regardless. We should make a pact - enter at least two challenges a month each. That'll force us to do something. :) |
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02/03/2012 06:12:35 AM · #3 |
| What she said. Just enter - get feedback in advance if possible, take feedback during voting and just keep doing it - you will get better. |
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02/03/2012 06:27:46 AM · #4 |
| Post processing (pp) is overrated. It's all about the light. If you are not getting the end product you desire, it will be most productive to spend more time and energy on the image capture process. It's not that pp can't make a very good photograph better. The fact remains, to produce a compelling image presentation, you'll need to start with an excellent image. This is just me, but I allocate my time 85% image acquisition and 15% computer work. I fear I see some newer photographers reversing that time allocation on the misguided thought the pp produces the end result. It isn't so. |
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02/03/2012 06:31:57 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Post processing (pp) is overrated. It's all about the light. If you are not getting the end product you desire, it will be most productive to spend more time and energy on the image capture process. It's not that pp can't make a very good photograph better. The fact remains, to produce a compelling image presentation, you'll need to start with an excellent image. This is just me, but I allocate my time 85% image acquisition and 15% computer work. I fear I see some newer photographers reversing that time allocation on the misguided thought the pp produces the end result. It isn't so. |
it took me too long to realize this. |
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02/03/2012 06:45:26 AM · #6 |
| My most recent Blue ribbon was a result of 50% of having an idea of what to photograph and 50% of PP. In fact most of my ribbons would not happen without a lot of PP. You are welcome to PM me for feedback before you submit to a challenge. PP takes time to learn but it is essential for any serious photog. Unfortunately there are very few ribbon winners who would show their before and after images, and explain how they did it. |
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02/03/2012 07:09:13 AM · #7 |
Scott, first thanks for all that you do around here. Now onto the topic at hand. You have been without a camera for awhile so I say just get to shooting and posting. As was said the lighting  and proper camera capture is very important but from there the post can either take it to the next level or hurt the image. Most of my first entries were hurt from my post work and I am just getting a better feel for it now. A few ways I am getting to the point where my editing enhances my shots are from feedback and some very generous members giving suggestions. And a BIG way is when I shoot something I really like, if I shoot something that really isn't in my style it is harder for me to process it. I still shoot stuff not really in my style because I think that helps me as a photographer but I can tell my heart isn't in it as much. That being said what do you really like to shoot? What styles do you enjoy? Looking through your port I came across these shots of yours that I think may help make my point I am trying to make.
  
I wouldn't worry about pushing the processing. If in doubt about a rule you can get feedback or send sc a ticket but don't forget about the wonderful world of side challenges. No worries about a dq there and a wonderful place to learn and get feedback. So click away and have fun.
Message edited by author 2012-02-03 07:09:46. |
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02/03/2012 07:31:59 AM · #8 |
I am not sure if I understand correctly, but it sounds like you are in doubt on how to photograph to get what you want and then on how to PP the images to further your aims. So you find the result not too moving by your own standards.
Not sure if this helps, but I have been recently looking in a few books which might be useful.
One is 'the photographers's eye' by Michael Freeman. which is all about composition and looking at your image-making as it was design, so to make it more effective.
Link
The other one is DuChemin 'Defining your vision in adobe photoshop Lightroom', which focusses on thinking before processing what PP should do for your image and concept, so not to get lost in the millions different alternatives you have. It's not quite as straightforward as one would hope, and it's not a tips&tricks cookbook, but it has images to follow along step by step, and many like it a lot.
link
I found one of those at my local library, maybe yours will have them too, or some bookshop will have them for you to have a browse.
Then you can always pester you favourite DPC people about their images you liked a lot and have things you would like to see in your photography too. I am sure many will be glad to help and explain how they photographed and then processed.
Message edited by author 2012-02-03 07:33:52. |
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02/03/2012 08:17:34 AM · #9 |
| Start a side challenge on something that interests you, and get others to join in. Then you can get feedback without pressure on your editing. When you start feeling more comfortable you can jump back in to the challenges. |
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02/03/2012 08:18:46 AM · #10 |
Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to head out this morning and just take pictures of anything and everything that draws my attention, even if I don't know why it drew my attention. I think I'm trying to look for the perfect shot instead of feeling for the emotion within.
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02/03/2012 08:58:39 AM · #11 |
Oh, on photography outings, it usually helps me to pre-visualize what I would like to capture. Then, when looking for the objective in a place with the right light, I'll often stumble upon a subject or scene of equal or better interest. That serendipity experience is worth nurturing. It's not a terrible idea to just walk around, but you'll be more productive if you have some kind of idea in mind.
For example, we have a few inches of fresh snow this morning. I'm going to look for the tracks of our neighborhood bobcat. Upon finding the tracks, I will track him as long as I can stand the cold. I may or may not find him, but in the process, with camera in hand, I may get to photograph a golden eagle in that same area. This is just an example, but it helps to pre-visualize your future image captures. |
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02/03/2012 09:17:59 AM · #12 |
| I feel this way every time. I still torture myself and enter anyway. I guess I am sick that way. :) Totally know where you are coming from. |
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02/03/2012 10:48:12 AM · #13 |
The Flip and Blend side challenge may be useful to you as a way to PP for fun. Also, it will remind you what layer blending is & what it can do. You can start out with the traditional Flip'n'Blend and then put your own spin on it. Warning--this PP fun is addictive!
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02/03/2012 10:56:33 AM · #14 |
I will be getting up at 3am tomorrow morning, drive over 50 miles (100 return) to get to a bird hide by 4:30am. Whilst there I will get as many early morning shots of tiny fast moving subjects in near darkness. Half an hour after the sun has peeked over the horison I will be returning home unless the light and birdlife is still in the vicinity and worth shooting.
How do I now shoot for "50 ways to leave your lover"? I have to actively think about bird "x" flying away from bird "y" in a human emotional sort of way and try shoehorn it in! "Rock, paper, scissors"? "Sports V"? Shoehorns bomb. If I show an image of two birds playing catch with talons locked in the air and submit it to "Sports V" it will get hammered because it's not a baseball shot.
This has always been my dilemma on DPC. Slowly I have learned to shoot what I like when I like and only submit if it fits. If I get nothing that month to fit a challenge I have at least had camera in hand and can submit one of those images into the FS.
If inspiration comes for a challenge, then at least DPC has removed me from my comfort zone and I have tried other things, irrespective of the placement and my PP skills, or lack thereof.
Message edited by author 2012-02-03 11:01:13. |
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02/03/2012 11:31:26 AM · #15 |
| It all depends on what your motive is. If you're looking for respect and admiration, its going to be tough - there are many extremely talented folks here. If you're looking to learn and grow as a photog, getting independent opinions / suggestions is essential to the process. There are many great suggestions so far, but all of them involve getting your work in front of others, and entering challenges is one way to do that. The scores and ribbons will come, and you will learn and improve. |
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02/03/2012 11:58:37 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
My most recent Blue ribbon was a result of 50% of having an idea of what to photograph and 50% of PP. In fact most of my ribbons would not happen without a lot of PP. You are welcome to PM me for feedback before you submit to a challenge. PP takes time to learn but it is essential for any serious photog. Unfortunately there are very few ribbon winners who would show their before and after images, and explain how they did it. |
I think it is a combination of that and a combination of not really knowing how to explain what we do, much of what I have learned I have learned by trial and error or a happy accident. When I process a photo half the time I don't even know how I got from point A to point B I just keep messing until it looks right. I have tried to go back and reprocess the same photo the same way and it doesn't turn out the same. |
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02/03/2012 12:27:56 PM · #17 |
For a long time I was eager to submit to 2 or 3 challenges a week. Now I'm tapering off and entering when a subject enthuses me or I happen to have shot something that fits. Of course, I keep the topic in mind while I am out and about.
If the subject enthuses you, then you will be more likely to have some idea of what you want to capture. Also, like Riochard said, you will often run across another good opportunity while you are looking for something else. Some of it is learning to recognize the potential in a scene. Both when it is in front of your lens and when reviewing the shots later one.
Then there are many who prefer to create their scene in a studio setup. It's a wonderful talent that I could probably develop if I wanted, but I've realized I'm not one of those. I prefer finding mine in the real world.
Don't overlook the comments as being important as well. I've had many mediocre scoring images that were my greatest successes because of the comments they pulled in. Other decently scoring shots that I consider bombs because they pulled in a good score, but inspired little in the way of comments.
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02/03/2012 01:06:24 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Don't overlook the comments as being important as well. I've had many mediocre scoring images that were my greatest successes because of the comments they pulled in. Other decently scoring shots that I consider bombs because they pulled in a good score, but inspired little in the way of comments. |
Here here! |
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02/03/2012 03:06:05 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Unfortunately there are very few ribbon winners who would show their before and after images, and explain how they did it. |
There are currently 52 items in the How'd They Do That? section, though admittedly not all of them are ribbon-winners.
In this side-challenge thread participants are posting their processing steps for entries made this month. People have also posted in Original vs submitted - Before and After (3 pages) and in Before and After Ribboners & High Scorers (10 pages) and in June "before and after" images thread. (13 pages) and in Before/After Images ... (I only searched for "After" after 2008 -- there are almost certainly more threads somewhere) ...
Most people here are quite willing to share their ideas and techniques if asked -- helping each other become better photographers is, after all, the essence of the site's mission statement ...
Originally posted by dtremain:
It all depends on what your motive is. If you're looking for respect and admiration, its going to be tough - there are many extremely talented folks here. If you're looking to learn and grow as a photog, getting independent opinions / suggestions is essential to the process. There are many great suggestions so far, but all of them involve getting your work in front of others, and entering challenges is one way to do that. The scores and ribbons will come, and you will learn and improve. |
I agree -- it is unreasonable to expect to submit a great/emotionally-engaging photo to every challenge ... if Ansel Adams thought getting 12 keepers constituted a good year, it seems silly to expect twenty times more from ourselves. And failing 7 out of 10 times will get you a few million a year in the Majors....
Given all the constraints of the challenge structure, I usually consider many of my submissions to be a kind of "first draft" -- if I was shooting for an ad this would be the rough sketch to see if the client likes the concept. If the first draft works as a final version, so much the better, but if the result is "great idea -- needs better execution" I'm fine with that. In this context, I prioritize having a quality image over image quality ...
Message edited by author 2012-02-03 15:18:43. |
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02/03/2012 06:13:01 PM · #20 |
They best thing to do is simply not care.
That's it. Just leave all the worries behind.
Best thing to do is to treat it as a homework assignment.
Seriously -- when's the last time you remember getting totally excited and enthusiastic about a homework assignment?!? Usually, you just do it and get it over with. Treat DPC as homework. Tell yourself that you're going to turn in the homework. That it's better to get a 50% on the homework than a zero for non-participation. Do what you can. Process it. And don't worry about a DQ. If you are trying to follow the rules, that's what's important. If you get a DQ there's something that you didn't understand, and now you understand. DQs aren't the end of the world. You may be afraid of the teacher slapping you on the wrist when you do the homework wrong, but it's not going to scar you for life.
If you simply stop putting so much stress into it (perfect shot, emotional shot, etc.) and just do it, you'll probably have some complete bombs, you'll probably have a bunch of mediocre shots, and you'll probably get some gems from very unexpected places.
HOWEVER,
It will leave you ready for the ultimate shot that does come.
And it will come.
And probably won't be DPC related. You'll be walking along someday, you'll really be lucky because you happen to have your camera with you. And then, suddenly, there it is. Your perfect shot. And you know what? You'll know what's right and wrong about the lighting because of the stupid "knife, fork, spoon" challenge that you shot inside with two bare 60w bulbs and some white paper. You'll know whether you need to change your angle and POV because of the "from above" and "from the ground up" challenges. You'll know that you need to immediate overexpose by a stop or 2 because of the "sun in the frame" challenge. You definitely know to switch to bracketing because of all the HDR challenges, even though you hate HDR, you realize there's definitely a point to play with the exposures and can do wonders with the bracketed shots. You'll know what you want to do with the composition, because of all the "rule of thirds", "centered composition" and breaking the rules challenges. All of this within the first 45 seconds of seeing your perfect shot.
DPC is homework. Force yourself to do your homework. Homework can be fun occasionally. Homework can be a pain in the butt many times. But when the test comes, you'll be so incredibly ready. :) |
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02/03/2012 06:26:17 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
They best thing to do is simply not care.
... you'll probably get some gems from very unexpected places.
HOWEVER,
It will leave you ready for the ultimate shot that does come.
And it will come.
And probably won't be DPC related. You'll be walking along someday, you'll really be lucky because you happen to have your camera with you. And then, suddenly, there it is. Your perfect shot. And you know what? You'll know what's right and wrong about the lighting ... |
Your post pretty much describes my DPC experience ... in fact this came about six months before I found DPC ...  |
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02/03/2012 09:13:39 PM · #22 |
It has pretty much already been said but the challenges will force you to think about what images you capture. They will help you to grow as an artist. I am very creative but I am not much of an artist. I love to play with a visual medium but it is certainly not my strong suit. The challenges force me to try to express what I think and feel in a capture. The feed back is valuable in telling me what this one community values.
I also agree that if you take a capture specifically relating to the challenge it will be better if you rationalize a shot you just happened to take while the challenge was running. And by better, I mean it will score better because your capture will be more aligned with the premise of the challenge.
I take very mediocre photos. I want to take exceptional ones.. Shooting specifically for a challenge helps me shoot something that will be more compelling than if I was randomly capturing images. I do seem to be randomly expressing my thoughts so it is probably tie not be quiet. Also not a bad way to learn. :)
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02/04/2012 12:20:41 AM · #23 |
| Scott, to my mind, the best advice here is just to enter the side challenges and do it for fun. Pick one or 5 or whatever, but don't worry about the editing. Just find the joy again. |
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