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12/30/2011 04:03:39 PM · #26 |
| I don't understand...if someone doesn't care for the Expert rule set, as some have mentioned here and in other various threads, why enter and why vote in one? There are other challenges to pick from. I enjoy the expert challenges because they are to only time I can use a texture/overlay. Personally, I'd love to see an expert editing Free Study. I think it could be fun. |
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12/30/2011 04:13:08 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by RKT:
I don't understand...if someone doesn't care for the Expert rule set, as some have mentioned here and in other various threads, why enter and why vote in one? There are other challenges to pick from. I enjoy the expert challenges because they are to only time I can use a texture/overlay. Personally, I'd love to see an expert editing Free Study. I think it could be fun. |
I couldn't agree more. Expert editing isn't just about fantasyland images, it's about textures and overlays and other "forbidden" techniques that are a lot less obvious. And I started this thread to point out that even if you DON'T have the skill-set, the time, or the desire to engage in full-blown expert compositing for a given challenge, that's no reason to despair. We can, and often DO, score very well in expert challenges with advanced editing, or even basic editing for that matter, just as basic editing can still score well in advanced challenges. It all starts with the vision and the camera, after all.
I can't BEGIN to compete with the likes of Judi and Christophe in multi-image compositing, not because it's beyond me but because I'm not personally motivated to hone that skill-set and invest that kind of time. Yet this has never stopped me from ENTERING challenges held under the expert ruleset, and I've done very well in a few of them, as well :-) I quite enjoy that, actually; but that danged Christophe sneaked by me in this one :-)
R.
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12/30/2011 04:16:43 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by RKT:
I don't understand...if someone doesn't care for the Expert rule set, as some have mentioned here and in other various threads, why enter and why vote in one? There are other challenges to pick from. |
Agreed. And as was the point of this thread, you can enter expert challenges without doing any expert editing and still be very competitive.
When we had fewer expert challenges, people felt compelled to push the images over the top en masse, partly also because the topics were tailored for that type of editing, but the more of them we have, the more they settle down into an excellent blend of pure photography competing head-on with heavy doses of digital art.
ps: +1 and bravo to Christophe's post. The world (and DPC) does not revolve around any one person's time or lack thereof. Nobody is forcing you to compete or participate. |
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12/30/2011 04:29:00 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by gyaban:
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Please have sympathy for those of us who work a lot of hours Frank! :) |
Brent,
At first I found your crusade against Expert Editing amusing, but now this is becoming insulting. What gives you the right to assume that those spending lot of time on processing (or on their entries in a general way) don't work a lot on their regular job? You don't like that kind of images? Fine. Don't do them. Vote 1 on all them, if you like. But please respect the freedom that everyone has to do what he likes, and to invest time (or not) the way he likes. You are not the only one working hard for your normal job. I sacrifice most of my rare personal time, lots of evening I could spend with my wife while she watches TV alone, or lots of sleeping time doing my images. Moreover, I do know I'm not the only one here doing so. The fact you can't/don't want/don't, does not imply no one else should. Not everyone looks at photography the way you are, which does not mean they are wrong and should immediately stop. Lastly, a challenge on DPC typically gives you 7 days to prepare your entry: it's everyone's own business to organize it the way he wants. If I take a week off, just to spend 140 hours on my entries for the PhotoBowl, that's my plain right. In a sport competition, sportsmen can obviously train as much as they want beforehand, the fact one or some of the participants are not able to, is irrelevant. |
I totally agree with Gyaban on this. I am often ridiculed for the amount of time I spend on an image (especially in Expert editing). I plan my image from scratch and allow certain time to do the processing. Sometimes I don't have an idea that I want to run with or I don't have the time so I don't enter...that is my perogative. Yet there are times where my images come through a lot quicker. Organise your idea and your time and you can do it...regardless of the type of editing the challenge is. |
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12/30/2011 05:23:21 PM · #30 |
Well if I stepped on some toes by too frequently voicing my opinion regarding Expert editing I apologize :)
Normally I would just sit Expert topics out If I can't make time for them or do them with minimal processing as is everyone's choice. Recently I couldn't do this though without feeling guilty for letting down my WPL team. Well that is all done and over with now for me, and I'll be quiet again ;)
Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone :) |
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12/30/2011 05:39:48 PM · #31 |
Oops! Never mind. :-)
Message edited by author 2012-01-06 21:53:39. |
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01/06/2012 05:45:34 PM · #32 |
Instead of worrying too much about the scores, why not let expert editing challenges be an opportunity to be allowed to do whatever you want? In any other challenge, there are restrictions and it is those restrictions that can potentially (though not always!) limit the artist in the true image they wish to submit. I see just as much argument against basic editing, but don't understand why people just can't accept the imposed rule set for what it is: a CHALLENGE. If you don't have the time to invest into a "true" expert image, just do your best and allow the most flexible rule set possible to be a place to do what the time you DO have affords you to do. This is supposed to be fun! We are supposed to learn and grow and help each other out! Please, don't let a rule set be your deterimination for not submitting, commenting, or voting. Peruse the free gallery before you, be inspired, be challenged, give advice, let your imagination go wild because that's what an expert rule set is really intended to do.
Message edited by author 2012-01-06 17:48:03. |
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01/06/2012 08:39:32 PM · #33 |
I can see Brent's point of view. I definitely do not feel like I'm competitive in expert editing challenges. However, I don't think that's a reason to avoid them. (well... maybe... ;)
When the expert challenges come around, I feel like I'm at quite a disadvantage. But when a portrait challenge comes around -- I hate it even more. I suck at portraits!! No more portrait challenges!! Ever! :)
Anyway, you probably get the point. Just because we excel at something, or stink at something else, doesn't mean that those challenges should be excluded or included. A valid point is, portraits are photography, and expert editing crosses a line. Yet portions of it are definitely photography, and I do think it would be remiss if DPC excluded it completely. At this time, even if there are expert challenges, there are usually two other challenges during that week. If there were only two challenges/week, I do think it would be an issue in the competitions. At 3/week we still have a chance two other times.
During WPL, there were 27 challenges -- 4 were expert editing.
Edgar Allen Poe
day and night
motivational/demotivational
fool the viewer
I tried a couple of those challenges, and my highest placement was 25th. But I knew I wasn't going to do well on those, and so I put my time and effort into the other challenges during that week. I just viewed them as a chance to play around with something that usually doesn't interest me. The techniques that I've learned, however, have been invaluable in the challenges that do intrigue me. Expert editing is a learning tool, just like all of the other weird challenges that have shown up recently. Learn and enjoy. :)
Btw, the worst WPL challenge wasn't the expert editing challenges -- the worst was "you+1". Seriously -- don't you think this caters to the young and good looking, not the overweight housewife crowd? Ban all portraits!! Especially self portraits! :)
Message edited by author 2012-01-06 20:42:36. |
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01/06/2012 09:20:01 PM · #34 |
when i first started on this site i had just gotten bitten by the photography bug. Being green and not knowing photoshop, I was so intimidated with advanced editing, that i longed for basic editing challenges. I thought all these ribbon winners were awesome at photoshop. Soon i realized that most of you guys suck at it :P and that your images really are that good and not photoshopped out the wazoo. I figured out that i didnt need to do the advanced tricks, my images needed to stand on their own first.
now i hate basic editing editing because its too damn restrictive, even if 95% of the time i use basic editing.
i like expert editing not because it allows me to make some crazy image, but becuase i usually follow some sort of tutorial to create a crazy effect, and along the way i learn what something in photoshop does that i had no idea why i would use it and maybe i'll get to apply it in another setting. |
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