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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Afraid of Expert Challenges? A Myth Debunked...
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Showing posts 1 - 25 of 34, (reverse)
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12/30/2011 12:33:19 AM · #1
Check it out: 8 of the top 10 are advanced editing, as far as can be seen, and all 3 of the ribbons for that matter:

//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_results.php?CHALLENGE_ID=1500

It's what I've always believed, and it seems to be true: good photography always has a place, no matter what the ruleset is.

R.
12/30/2011 01:01:32 AM · #2
Only Christophe's is expert In the top 6.
12/30/2011 01:46:16 AM · #3
Today is the day,.. I will sleep comfortable ;)
12/30/2011 02:30:26 AM · #4
I disagree with you Robert. Expert images are always voted higher than real photos, maybe it's not fair but this is the truth. In this challenge there were no good expert entries. Even Christophe's was below his average level in expert. There were few entries because three expert challenges in 3 weeks are really too many. Expert takes a lot of time and few people had the chance to try it once again.
12/30/2011 03:01:16 AM · #5
Mine started high 6.7 after 15 votes but then plummeted to 5.9 but I'd had the idea all week but only had a rushed 1 hour to shoot, edit and upload. Finished 17th not to bad, I voted Christoph's a 5 didn't do anything for me, it just didn't look right to me. There's no point using expert unless it's really called for like after man etc IMHO
12/30/2011 04:29:59 AM · #6
snip
Originally posted by Alexkc:

Expert images are always voted higher than real photos, maybe it's not fair but this is the truth.
snip

Ha Ha! Not true!! Proof - ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1500/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_989385.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1500/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_989385.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Definitely edited under the 'expert' rules - maybe not very well, but under them nevertheless. Wouldn't exactly meet my definition of 'voted higher'.

BTW - I am NOT fazed by the score - it got what it deserved, I was happy it finished in the top half :)
12/30/2011 04:37:43 AM · #7
I meant a different thing: if two images are equally good (even if comparisons are always really hard) the expert one gets a better score and IMHO this is a fact. Obiouvsly under expert ruleset can be created awful images, much worse than under basic or advanced.
12/30/2011 06:31:00 AM · #8
its doesn't look it, but mine was expert edited. i used two images to create it.

12/30/2011 09:49:00 AM · #9
Originally posted by mike_311:

its doesn't look it, but mine was expert edited. i used two images to create it.


REALLY? That makes it even better in my mind... But it raises a question, Why? Couldn't that shot be done almost in basic? Unless you had a hard time getting the pretzel to stay up there.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1500/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_989061.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1500/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_989061.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2011-12-30 09:49:15.
12/30/2011 10:22:04 AM · #10
i kind of misled you, i swapped out the background with a shot i took earlier in the setup, mainly becuase it has less noise since it was taken at a lower iso. I could have left it, but hey since i was allowed to swap it out, why not right?

the glass and pretzel setup is 100% real.
12/30/2011 10:27:22 AM · #11
damn and i was gonna say it was because you ran out of beer!
12/30/2011 11:00:37 AM · #12
Originally posted by Alexkc:

I meant a different thing: if two images are equally good (even if comparisons are always really hard) the expert one gets a better score and IMHO this is a fact. Obiouvsly under expert ruleset can be created awful images, much worse than under basic or advanced.


+1
Expert editing is a double-edged sword, I agree. Not often talked about in just those terms.
12/30/2011 11:02:42 AM · #13
Originally posted by o2bskating:

damn and i was gonna say it was because you ran out of beer!


well the head on the beer dies off really quick so i ended up drinking almost two beers during shooting.

i had to suck it down through a straw to keep my fingerprints off the glass. fill it up, run over and hit the shutter, repeat, repeat. You can see the beer at the base for where i was trying to get the head to run down like i got in my submission and it ran all the way down before i had to do it again.

the pretzel tasted good too.
12/30/2011 11:06:55 AM · #14
Originally posted by Alexkc:

I meant a different thing: if two images are equally good (even if comparisons are always really hard) the expert one gets a better score and IMHO this is a fact. Obviously under expert ruleset can be created awful images, much worse than under basic or advanced.


as they should.

people like expert edited entries, so why not score them higher? its not like a blue ribbon that scores a 7 is better than a blue ribbon that scores a 6.5. all entries get rated relative to others in the challenge not against others on the site.

12/30/2011 11:07:24 AM · #15
Originally posted by bspurgeon:

Only Christophe's is expert In the top 6.


I am sure he doesn't care about his place here... it was accepted in 1x way before challenge ended.
12/30/2011 11:41:15 AM · #16
I only finished in 13th place, but I had so much fun doing it and learned a few new tricks at the same time. I'm looking forward to the next expert challenge. Maybe the best of 2011 could be expert, just think of the library of images we could use.
12/30/2011 12:01:40 PM · #17
your should have scored higher. how many donuts did you actually really use?
12/30/2011 01:26:28 PM · #18
Only a dozen, just placed them differently and took lots of shots.
12/30/2011 01:35:49 PM · #19
It's not the donuts... it's the cop. He looks like a criminal more than a cop. I prefer to see a badge and/or a cop hat, or something tells me he is a cop... other than a gun, which I think they usually carry those on their belts... usually... idea is awesome though, that's a very true observation ;)
12/30/2011 01:43:51 PM · #20
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

It's not the donuts... it's the cop. He looks like a criminal more than a cop.


I don't know, most cops are criminals anyway.
The belly gives it away as a cop.
He can't carry the pistol on his belt because he wouldn't be able to reach it... ;-)
12/30/2011 01:50:30 PM · #21
"Expert" does not always mean bells and whistles. My entry is definitely in the expert ruleset ONLY in that I cloned out the leash. Everything else is almost basic editing.
12/30/2011 02:12:52 PM · #22
Originally posted by caba:

I only finished in 13th place, but I had so much fun doing it and learned a few new tricks at the same time. I'm looking forward to the next expert challenge. Maybe the best of 2011 could be expert, just think of the library of images we could use.

Please have sympathy for those of us who work a lot of hours Frank! :) If there is a Best of 2011 challenge and it is given an Expert ruleset many of us will not have time to participate.

I fully realize that Expert or even Basic processing can do well in an Expert challenge as I have done at least okay with just that scenario myself. But with certain Expert topics you just need to do Expert editing in order to score well. And it is sad that with as many Expert challenges as we have had lately some busy members have been shut out.

And I would hope we will see no Expert challenges during the WPL Photobowl week that begins in just a few days. I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of one of these time consuming Expert topics during a league playoff when you are busy and it totally sucks.
I wish both of the teams in the Photobowl well, and would hope they get topics that are more about photography than editing and not so time consuming that all 14 players involved can't give them their best effort.
12/30/2011 02:48:51 PM · #23
Originally posted by Brent_S:

Please have sympathy for those of us who work a lot of hours Frank! :)


Brent,

At first I found your crusade against Expert Editing amusing, but now this is becoming insulting. What gives you the right to assume that those spending lot of time on processing (or on their entries in a general way) don't work a lot on their regular job? You don't like that kind of images? Fine. Don't do them. Vote 1 on all them, if you like. But please respect the freedom that everyone has to do what he likes, and to invest time (or not) the way he likes. You are not the only one working hard for your normal job. I sacrifice most of my rare personal time, lots of evening I could spend with my wife while she watches TV alone, or lots of sleeping time doing my images. Moreover, I do know I'm not the only one here doing so. The fact you can't/don't want/don't, does not imply no one else should. Not everyone looks at photography the way you are, which does not mean they are wrong and should immediately stop. Lastly, a challenge on DPC typically gives you 7 days to prepare your entry: it's everyone's own business to organize it the way he wants. If I take a week off, just to spend 140 hours on my entries for the PhotoBowl, that's my plain right. In a sport competition, sportsmen can obviously train as much as they want beforehand, the fact one or some of the participants are not able to, is irrelevant.
12/30/2011 02:50:22 PM · #24
ouch!
12/30/2011 03:14:09 PM · #25
Christophe, I will send you a PM soon as I think/hope we can communicate better in a slightly more direct way :)

I guess I have been vocal lately regarding Expert editing, but I truly am not trying to have it taken away from DPC and would only hope it would not come up as frequently as it has lately is all.
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