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08/09/2011 08:37:32 PM · #1 |
Yup, it finally happened to me, in this Chinese magazine. A recent Flickr friend saw her image (as well as mine and another photog on Flickr) in the July issue of the magazine, without any credits or payments. She has contacted them and they were very apologetic and offered compensation, but she wrote us to see if the three of us want to pursue this together. Of course, most importantly is to get credit for the image, although it would be nice to get paid for it. I was thinking of looking into the cost of stock images, and tacking on 10-20% for nuisance. I would rather keep it amicable and realistic.
Yes, caveats et al about posting on Flickr, but truthfully, it can happen no matter where you post on the internet. Besides, I was really starting to feel left out about not having anyone think my images were worth stealing, LOL! |
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08/09/2011 09:06:36 PM · #2 |
| I saw this guy selling photos on the streets of Bejing. I'm betting he's behind it. |
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08/09/2011 09:21:46 PM · #3 |
Wow, Johanna! That's a magnificent image! I'd love to steal that one myself!
I don't think "stock plus 10%" covers theft. They certainly know that they did not pay for it. |
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08/09/2011 09:48:15 PM · #4 |
That is an amazing photo.....you should do more like that for the Expert Editing challenges...you will give Gyaban a run for his money...lol!!
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08/09/2011 09:58:49 PM · #5 |
| Awesome image! I can't even guess how you dreamed that up, let alone created it. |
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08/09/2011 10:06:35 PM · #6 |
Guess it is gone. Could not see it.
Message edited by author 2011-08-09 22:09:56. |
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08/09/2011 10:42:10 PM · #7 |
You are doomed....you will NEVER be able to do ANYTHIING about it. I would tell them to take their offer and throw it off the bad side of the GREAT WALL. If Apple, Microsoft, and US Entertainment and Media Companies can't get the Chinese people to stop jacking their stuff, you are surely done.
Sorry I can't be of any help....I just know when someone is licked !
KS |
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08/09/2011 11:08:29 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Yes, caveats et al about posting on Flickr, but truthfully, it can happen no matter where you post on the internet. Besides, I was really starting to feel left out about not having anyone think my images were worth stealing, LOL! |
i'm not here to pick on you, johanna - i just want to make a few points.
i see these statements so frequently i really can't tell whether or not to take them seriously. if you leave your bike unchained in a large, crowded park, would you be surprised if it got stolen? would you really be bummed if it wasn't? if yours wasn't, but the bike next to yours was, or if a friend had theirs stolen, wouldn't you be inclined to buy a lock?
if you don't take ownership of your property seriously, how can you expect anyone else to? if you aren't going to make all the necessary efforts to reasonably protect your stuff, you'll have a tougher time getting compensation of any kind when things like this happen.
let's look at a couple things: protecting yourself and posting on the internet. first, protecting yourself. are you filling in all the IPTC fields in your images, especially the copyright info? are you registering your images with the US Copyright office on a regular basis? when you deliver any digital images to any customer or client, are you also delivering a license that spells out their rights and obligations? if you aren't doing these things, you are putting yourself at an extreme disadvantage when it comes time to fight and collect (yes, you can fight and win, but you are going to have to fight a lot harder to win a lot less).
second, posting on the internet. the first question is, who are you trying to reach? what's the point of posting anything anywhere? if you are just doing it to share, what's the big deal if someone takes you up on your sharing...especially if you haven't spelled out any terms as to just how you mean for it to be shared? if you are posting for the purpose of selling it, you should only be posting it in a place meant for that (ie, a stock agency). if you are posting for the purpose of drumming up business, then i'd suggest a portfolio gallery where you can direct people or where people looking for what you offer can find you; i'd make it a targeted site where you won't get lost in the sea of a bazillion other images. if you want to share with a few friends (or even a larger group, like dpc or fb), then post in closed in areas (like a flickr group with limited membership). again, if you really just want to share, share away, but only share the stuff you really feel like releasing to the public domain.
and if you do post anything, post only low-res, watermarked images! the only exception would be for things like dpc challenge entries, but even then you can put embed copyright and licensing info in your metadata and elect to use the post-challenge watermarking. if you do want to participate in sites like dpc, you have to accept that your images are going to be seen and sooner or later misappropriated.
the bottom line is this: no, you cannot perfectly protect yourself, but you can do a pretty good job of it. at the very least, you have to ask yourself, "just what is this image worth to me?" and then protect yourself accordingly.
good luck!
[edited to add the obvious oversight about uploading only low-res, watermarked images]
Message edited by author 2011-08-10 05:11:20. |
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08/10/2011 02:18:25 AM · #9 |
Thank you, Skip. All very valid points. I do have an online gallery, although I've been using Flickr as a way to get my stuff seen, make contacts (several sessions have occurred as a result), and eventually, lead them to my site where they can purchase my work. I have not been very business savvy before in any of my other ventures, but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes. I'm also going to start posting much lower res images on Flickr, because I just don't see not posting there. At least for now.
@ Kenskid - yeah, I know.
@ Ken - I KNEW it had to be that guy!
Everyone else, thank you for your kind words :-) |
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08/10/2011 02:27:28 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
I'm also going to start posting much lower res images on Flickr, because I just don't see not posting there. |
I would do that immediately. I'm really surprised at the size of the files you're uploading there. Also, I wouldn't rely on Flickr's privacy settings for protecting your originals. That thing doesn't work. Even when you lock it down there are still ways to get at the largest version you upload so the best option is to not upload anything that large to begin with.
Message edited by author 2011-08-10 02:28:41.
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08/10/2011 02:32:57 AM · #11 |
Skip, you make some very good points all of which are valid. However, I just wanted to point out that when users post on Flickr they have a choice between several privacy settings (i.e. who can see what size of their images) as well as several licensing options:
All Rights Reserved.
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike Creative Commons.
Attribution-NonCommercial Creative Commons.
Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs Creative Commons.
Attribution Creative Commons.
Attribution-ShareAlike Creative Commons.
Attribution-NoDerivs Creative Commons.
Having said that, I still don't think it's a good idea to upload full-resolution images to Flickr. While I use Flickr as a platform for some of the stock I sell to Getty Images...those which are chosen for Flickr stock collections can later be uploaded in full resolution directly to Getty.
It's also not uncommon for Chinese media to take work which they can download in decent resolution and appropriate it without acknowledgement / payment. The steps mentioned in Skip's post are some of the appropriate tools to protects yourself (use low-res images for sharing, include copyright / credit details in EXIF, register images with copyright office, and use watermarks when appropriate). |
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08/10/2011 05:31:16 AM · #12 |
thanks, michael and richard! i forgot the obvious in my original post:
Originally posted by skip:
and if you do post anything, post only low-res, watermarked images! the only exception would be for things like dpc challenge entries, but even then you can embed copyright and licensing info in your metadata and elect to use the post-challenge watermarking. if you do want to participate in sites like dpc, you have to accept that your images are going to be seen and sooner or later misappropriated. |
@johanna: the trick is to do things with a purpose. if the purpose is just to have fun and to share your imagery, nothing really matters. if the purpose is to be in business, you have to have a strategy. you want your images to be seen by people who are looking to buy prints, to license images, or to hire a photographer or digital/graphic artist, and that means putting them in places that those people look instead of putting them in places where you hope they get stumbled across.
it's fine to put out breadcrumbs to lead buyers to a place where they can make purchases. towards that, post samplings of your images on sites like Flickr, but make sure the image or gallery description says something to the effect of like this? you can see even more here and then give them a link.
@michael: really good info on Flickr!
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08/12/2011 03:14:18 PM · #13 |
Thank you everyone, for your feedback. Implementing changes now.
As a final chapter to this episode, I am happy to report that I contacted the magazine (which has a 600,000+ circulation), and they responded immediately, apologized, and will be a) reprinting the image in the next issue with an apology and credit); b) paying for the usage.
I will now be published for real - with payment AND permission. |
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08/12/2011 03:37:00 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Thank you everyone, for your feedback. Implementing changes now.
As a final chapter to this episode, I am happy to report that I contacted the magazine (which has a 600,000+ circulation), and they responded immediately, apologized, and will be a) reprinting the image in the next issue with an apology and credit); b) paying for the usage.
I will now be published for real - with payment AND permission. |
Good news and congratulations...I always love a story with a happy ending!
I'm not a fan of Flickr, but perhaps this one turned out to be a blessing in disguise! ;-) |
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08/12/2011 03:53:42 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Thank you everyone, for your feedback. Implementing changes now.
As a final chapter to this episode, I am happy to report that I contacted the magazine (which has a 600,000+ circulation), and they responded immediately, apologized, and will be a) reprinting the image in the next issue with an apology and credit); b) paying for the usage.
I will now be published for real - with payment AND permission. |
Good news. Excellent resolution. |
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08/12/2011 05:45:42 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
I will now be published for real - with payment AND permission. |
that is so cool! |
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08/12/2011 07:15:24 PM · #17 |
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08/12/2011 07:22:24 PM · #18 |
| That's great! Do you mind sharing a ballpark of what you were able to settle for? |
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08/12/2011 08:03:31 PM · #19 |
| Congrats! That's awesome! |
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08/12/2011 08:11:28 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
I will now be published for real - with payment AND permission. |
YES!! This is wonderful! Congrats! Your image is really wonderful. I don't blame them for wanting it.
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08/12/2011 08:15:59 PM · #21 |
| great resolution, congrats Johanna! (frankly, I am surprised that they complied so easily) |
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