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10/28/2010 08:27:46 PM · #26 |
| Haven't read this entire thread, but, IMO, hand-to-paw combat is the only way to hunt, unless you're a pussy. |
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10/28/2010 08:30:01 PM · #27 |
Your way of life is killing animals? Are you an Inuit living in the Territories? If not then your way of life was chosen and isn't necessary for survival. You live in Maine and the last time I was there I didn't see any Inuit or Aboriginals hunting to stay alive because they didn't have food.
Hunting is a sport and if you think killing animals for sport is a justifiable means to have fun then I have nothing further to say to you. [/quote]
I do eat what i hunt. I am not as financially able as many. I DO survive on that meat.
Do you only copulate to reproduce? Do you only eat the amount of food you need to survive? Do you use ANY product that harms any animal in any way? (p.s. I know the answer to that, because the internet requires electricity, transmission cables, electronic equipment, ect.)
Did the bird, that was killed during the launch of the satellite that allows you to berate me on this forum, die a death that was more "worthy" or "dignified" than that of one that graced me with food, with, the ability to eat and live? |
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10/28/2010 08:30:18 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Haven't read this entire thread, but, IMO, hand-to-paw combat is the only way to hunt, unless you're a pussy. |
ROFL! I agree with this, especially if you're hunting squirrels! |
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10/28/2010 08:32:20 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Your way of life is killing animals? Are you an Inuit living in the Territories? If not then your way of life was chosen and isn't necessary for survival. You live in Maine and the last time I was there I didn't see any Inuit or Aboriginals hunting to stay alive because they didn't have food.
Hunting is a sport and if you think killing animals for sport is a justifiable means to have fun then I have nothing further to say to you. |
I do eat what i hunt. I am not as financially able as many. I DO survive on that meat.
Do you only copulate to reproduce? Do you only eat the amount of food you need to survive? Do you use ANY product that harms any animal in any way? (p.s. I know the answer to that, because the internet requires electricity, transmission cables, electronic equipment, ect.)
Did the bird, that was killed during the launch of the satellite that allows you to berate me on this forum, die a death that was more "worthy" or "dignified" than that of one that graced me with food, with, the ability to eat and live? |
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10/28/2010 08:34:35 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Haven't read this entire thread, but, IMO, hand-to-paw combat is the only way to hunt, unless you're a pussy. |
ROFL! I agree with this, especially if you're hunting squirrels! |
Leave the squirrels for Slippy.
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10/28/2010 08:39:37 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Haven't read this entire thread, but, IMO, hand-to-paw combat is the only way to hunt, unless you're a pussy. |
ROFL! I agree with this, especially if you're hunting squirrels! |
Leave the squirrels for Slippy. |
Actually we're hunting mice around my house right now. Tricky little bastards! We went through 8 trays of rat poison (left in the basement one tray per day). Yesterday we discovered all the rat poison was brought up from the basement to the second floor & deposited in my husbands closet! Two days ago my dog was going crazy at the the radiator cover in my kitchen. Barking, clawing, howling at it. We were befuddled. My husband lifted the cover up & out ran a mouse. I'm jumping on chairs, the dogs flipping out, hubby's trying to pull a Slippy & catch it with a tupperware container, but it still managed to escape!
eta: We will not be eating the mice we kill.
Message edited by author 2010-10-28 20:42:33. |
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10/28/2010 08:45:59 PM · #32 |
| funny how people get more upset about a cute animal dieing than one that is less visually appealing, or a nuisance. |
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10/28/2010 08:56:17 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by apercep:
funny how people get more upset about a cute animal dieing than one that is less visually appealing, or a nuisance. |
I understand hunting as a concept. And if you're going to eat the animal, it doesn't bother me as much. I realize it keeps populations of certain animals like deer under control. But except for deer, I really can't think of another animal that would qualify as needing to be hunted to control the population. People hunt polar bears & whales and they're on the brink of extinction. Sometimes a "way of life" needs to be adjusted. For the most part, people now adays buy their food in a grocery store. Do I feel sorry for the cows, pigs & chickens that give their lives so people can eat? Sure I do. But, hey I get hungry too and those animals were bred for that purpose. |
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10/28/2010 09:21:06 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
I understand hunting as a concept. And if you're going to eat the animal, it doesn't bother me as much. I realize it keeps populations of certain animals like deer under control. But except for deer, I really can't think of another animal that would qualify as needing to be hunted to control the population. People hunt polar bears & whales and they're on the brink of extinction. Sometimes a "way of life" needs to be adjusted. For the most part, people now adays buy their food in a grocery store. Do I feel sorry for the cows, pigs & chickens that give their lives so people can eat? Sure I do. But, hey I get hungry too and those animals were bred for that purpose. |
Those polar bear "hunters" are not sportsman, they are animal killers.
Many animals fall under the population control issue also..
What makes an animal "bred for food" different? is a horse bred for racing different than one bred for a ranch, or for glue?
Until we can make meat from non-animal derivatives, KILLING will be the way we eat meat. Be it in the wild or slaughterhouse. |
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10/28/2010 09:29:13 PM · #35 |
I am not opposed to hunting game, even if there are grocery stores... IF the meat is not wasted, but eaten. (I've NEVER missed having dinosaurs tromp through my front yard. Not once.)
If this bear had attacked me or my family, I'd be cheering to see it put to death for any reason. I admit that I was skeptical about this thread until I watched the video. What he did was cowardly at best. Pretty sick to fake a 'wild kill' to make him look better. *sigh* I was disgusted at his joy at the kill.
But, actually... I never would have imagined that it was illegal for him to do it. Immoral, yes. But, why should I think that if the sick bear's owner has the right to have his animal put to sleep, but instead wants me to kill if for him (I never would... couldn't, in fact), why would that be criminal?
Seriously. That's not rhetorical. I really want to know why it was illegal to shoot the bear. They said in the video "improper tagging". What does that mean? It is just too much government paperwork? Or what? |
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10/28/2010 10:04:10 PM · #36 |
I am like most everyone else and think that killing just for sport is insane and wrong and killing this Bear was a stupid act performed by a moron. But I have to ask myself would anyone have even cared if the Bear was put to sleep, probably not and either way the Bear would have died.
Animals hunt other animals all the time but since we use a weapon some people feel it makes it unfair, if a lion takes down a small animal that fight was not real fair either but we do not think twice about it. When animals are hunted for food it is just part of the natural food chain cycle, like it or not that is part of life.
For what it is worth I have never been hunting and have no plans on doing so but others have done the hunting/killing for me and in return I pay them making me just as much a part of the process. |
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10/28/2010 10:55:18 PM · #37 |
| Cruelty to animals is disgraceful, but it hardly compares to the cruelty inflicted on humans. Did you know that there are approximately 115,000 people killed each day world wide through abortion, including 3,700 in the U.S. |
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10/29/2010 02:03:04 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I am like most everyone else and think that killing just for sport is insane and wrong and killing this Bear was a stupid act performed by a moron. But I have to ask myself would anyone have even cared if the Bear was put to sleep, probably not and either way the Bear would have died.
Animals hunt other animals all the time but since we use a weapon some people feel it makes it unfair, if a lion takes down a small animal that fight was not real fair either but we do not think twice about it. When animals are hunted for food it is just part of the natural food chain cycle, like it or not that is part of life.
For what it is worth I have never been hunting and have no plans on doing so but others have done the hunting/killing for me and in return I pay them making me just as much a part of the process. |
For me, the issue is mostly that an animal in your care should be taken care of until natural death is imminent, and tooth decay was a result (likely) of dietary differences from wild bears, therefore I feel the ethically correct thing to do would have been to get the bear the dental care it needed, but that would clearly have hindered profitability, so instead the animal was sold as an actor in that rather disgusting fantasy, that's entirely my issue, this was just so wrong on so many levels. |
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10/29/2010 02:04:15 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Cruelty to animals is disgraceful, but it hardly compares to the cruelty inflicted on humans. Did you know that there are approximately 115,000 people killed each day world wide through abortion, including 3,700 in the U.S. |
Which, unfortunately falls far short of the 300,000+ that are born every day.. Clearly we are running headlong into a serious population issue ourselves. |
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10/29/2010 04:07:13 AM · #40 |
I'm not into hunting and am somewhat ambivalent about it. It needs to be regulated for good reasons and it probably needs to take place for other, equally as good reasons and I don't think it's a bad thing that we maintain those skills in case the grocery store aint there one day. Anyway, the video was disturbing to me on two levels - seeing the bear get shot and the whole idea of this idiot putting on this act. The main point of controversy here though is only the fact that the bear was tame, had bad teeth and was in an enclosed area. If you had no knowledge of those things, would we have even seen or heard of the video?
I visited the Olympic Game Farm a few years back (with  caba). They have a bunch of animals there that are "retired show bears" and such. All the bears had horrible teeth and you could drive right up to within 4ft or so (with small electric fence between them and you) and you were allowed to throw big marshmallows at them to get them to do tricks like stand up and act menacing. Made for some great photos, but really seemed incredibly pathetic. The bears didn't seem happy at all (not that I know what a happy bear looks like).
    
I doubt they spend any money on Bear Dentists either.
Message edited by author 2010-10-29 04:07:57. |
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10/29/2010 04:36:28 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
I am not opposed to hunting game, even if there are grocery stores... IF the meat is not wasted, but eaten. (I've NEVER missed having dinosaurs tromp through my front yard. Not once.) |
I think the whole 'grocery store' argument falls flat when you figure out the cost of hunting equipment, bows, arrows, rifles, bullets, knives, ropes, pulleys, boots, outdoor wear, and taxidermy - The price of all that lot would surely come close to a year's supply of beans and air freshener from the local grocery store?
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'm not into hunting and am somewhat ambivalent about it. It needs to be regulated for good reasons and it probably needs to take place for other, equally as good reasons and I don't think it's a bad thing that we maintain those skills in case the grocery store aint there one day. |
If the grocery store ain't there one day, I think we'd be more concerned with using our bows and arrows to fend off roaming tribes of starving humans. And zombies. |
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10/29/2010 05:06:38 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'm not into hunting and am somewhat ambivalent about it. It needs to be regulated for good reasons and it probably needs to take place for other, equally as good reasons and I don't think it's a bad thing that we maintain those skills in case the grocery store aint there one day. |
If the grocery store ain't there one day, I think we'd be more concerned with using our bows and arrows to fend off roaming tribes of starving humans. And zombies. |
Exactly why we should have the skillz. I'm off to search for a wild zombie preserve that allows hunting... |
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10/29/2010 05:31:25 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'm not into hunting and am somewhat ambivalent about it. It needs to be regulated for good reasons and it probably needs to take place for other, equally as good reasons and I don't think it's a bad thing that we maintain those skills in case the grocery store aint there one day. |
If the grocery store ain't there one day, I think we'd be more concerned with using our bows and arrows to fend off roaming tribes of starving humans. And zombies. |
Exactly why we should have the skillz. I'm off to search for a wild zombie preserve that allows hunting... |
Try your local college campus the day before finals commence. |
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10/29/2010 05:41:03 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'm not into hunting and am somewhat ambivalent about it. It needs to be regulated for good reasons and it probably needs to take place for other, equally as good reasons and I don't think it's a bad thing that we maintain those skills in case the grocery store aint there one day. |
If the grocery store ain't there one day, I think we'd be more concerned with using our bows and arrows to fend off roaming tribes of starving humans. And zombies. |
Exactly why we should have the skillz. I'm off to search for a wild zombie preserve that allows hunting... |
Try your local college campus the day before finals commence. |
or the high school campus on any day. |
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10/29/2010 07:01:58 AM · #45 |
A lot of other things used to be an American tradition..should I remind you of how Indians, Blacks were traditionally treated??
Don't compare responsible hunting with Can hunting.
Tradition of dressing up like Elmer Fudd and killing everything in site is nothing to be proud of... |
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10/29/2010 07:04:17 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Cruelty to animals is disgraceful, but it hardly compares to the cruelty inflicted on humans. Did you know that there are approximately 115,000 people killed each day world wide through abortion, including 3,700 in the U.S. |
maybe you should start a business of showing people how to use contraception so they don't need to use abortion as often? |
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10/29/2010 09:06:31 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Cruelty to animals is disgraceful, but it hardly compares to the cruelty inflicted on humans. Did you know that there are approximately 115,000 people killed each day world wide through abortion, including 3,700 in the U.S. |
And the world is a better place because of it. 115,000 unwanted humans equals 115,000 less abused, starved, and uncared for humans. Do you ever think of that or do you not give a hoot about people living out their lives unwanted, unloved, uncared for, left by the wayside. Is this what you want? You're cruel.
Hunting and religious beliefs.....the two fit together perfectly. I'm out of this one, for obvious reasons.
One thing I miss about not being a member is I can't put these threads on ignore. grrr |
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10/29/2010 09:50:34 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by apercep:
Originally posted by Kelli:
I understand hunting as a concept. And if you're going to eat the animal, it doesn't bother me as much. I realize it keeps populations of certain animals like deer under control. But except for deer, I really can't think of another animal that would qualify as needing to be hunted to control the population. People hunt polar bears & whales and they're on the brink of extinction. Sometimes a "way of life" needs to be adjusted. For the most part, people now adays buy their food in a grocery store. Do I feel sorry for the cows, pigs & chickens that give their lives so people can eat? Sure I do. But, hey I get hungry too and those animals were bred for that purpose. |
Those polar bear "hunters" are not sportsman, they are animal killers.
Many animals fall under the population control issue also..
What makes an animal "bred for food" different? is a horse bred for racing different than one bred for a ranch, or for glue?
Until we can make meat from non-animal derivatives, KILLING will be the way we eat meat. Be it in the wild or slaughterhouse. |
To get serious for a second here, an animal bred for food is usually not running for it's life from some nut with a bow & arrow, it's not frightened, it's not hungry, it's not being mistreated (and yes, I realize some places do treat their animals inhumanely). And when they are killed, it's usually done quickly & humanely. I would not have had a problem with that bear in the video taking a quick bullet in the brain for an instantaneous kill to put him out of his misery if he was suffering due to his dental problems (even if the jerk wanted to pretend he was a "hunter"). Though I would prefer he had been put down the same way a beloved pet would be. He didn't die a quick painless death. He died a suffering death. Would you let your friend or even a vet shoot your dog with an arrow because he needed to be put out of his misery? Of course not. Like I said before, I understand hunting as a concept. I don't like it, but I understand it. |
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10/29/2010 09:56:51 AM · #49 |
Yeah, on the whole 'I eat the meat I hunt' argument.
I can imagine you trying to convince yourself that these bear-burgers are oh-so-tasty as you try to swallow another mouthful. If you're that keen on eating the meat, why not go hunting something you would actually enjoy eating, like cows, or pigs, or sheep?
But then again, they're probably no fun to kill. |
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10/29/2010 11:04:50 AM · #50 |
The video is revolting, no question about it. It represents an ethical wasteland. One can have no respect whatsoever for the perpetrators of that travesty. But my objection's not so much to the fact that a tame animal was sold to be hunted (though I don't care for that at all) but that the jackass tried to dress it all up to make himself look like some big, brave, white hunter risking life and limb to down the savage beast. The hypocrisy of it is staggering.
None of this, however, has anything at all to do with the ethics of hunting per se. I don't have much patience with people who run around bewailing that hunting itself is somehow an immoral act, that all hunting is (and hunters are) bad, and so forth and so on. I don't have any patience with arguments that hunters ought to just go shoot their own pigs and cows, then, but won't because it is "no fun". I have no patience for any of this, even though I don't hunt and likely never will.
I do fish. Or did, anyway, haven't for a few years now. Used to own a fishing tackle shop. This is me with 282 lbs of Tuna Fish.
Took me a little over an hour of hard, hard work to kill that fish. My family and I ate off that fish for about a year, that one and some others from the same trip. I don't see any particular moral divide between hunting and fishing. Some people think a fish is a lower form of life and it's more OK to hunt them down and kill them, but I don't buy that. Life is life. You are willing to take a life, or you are not. If you're not willing to take a life, you shouldn't be eating meat or owning anything that uses leather.
Look, humans are omnivores. Since the beginning of the race, we've been hunters. Not every human has hunted, but each tribe or clan had its hunters. This is something that's in our genes, our very specific inheritance. It's not so easily gotten rid of. There's a lot about "modern" hunting that strikes me as ridiculous; the high tech tools, the bag & baggage of it, the rich, fat men syndrome, I understand that's laughable in its own, deviant way, but that's not all that hunting is.
And I have no quarrel whatsoever with people who are still in touch with this fundamental aspect of their (and our) nature, who have an actual *need* to be out in the wilderness stalking wild game because... well, because... that's what their nature is. And I think it's hypocritical to a very high degree to get holier-than-thou about these people who, from my perspective, are in much closer contact with the essence of life and death on earth than those of us who choose to live hermetically sealed off from the consequences of our needs. I offer up, as the counter to that, that *I*, at least, have had the moral courage (if you want to call it that) to go out and kill what I wanted to eat.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say we'd have a healthier society, a MUCH healthier society, if every child, growing up, had to spend a couple of his/her teenage years growing, killing, slaughtering, and cooking their own food. It gives you a perspective, ya know? Just sayin'...
R.
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