USA No longer king of Freedom - DPChallenge Forums

10/13/2010 03:32:42 PM · #101

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I do love the fact that he posted up an image of the tracking device on the net to figure out what it was. The fact that the FBI came running to get their device back means that they are probably tracking his internet usage as well as where he takes his car.

LOL - reminds me of this...

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/13/2010 05:05:06 PM · #102

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

LOL - reminds me of

lol... So that's how it's done... Maybe you can help with a question I never could figure out... Remember those smart missiles that we watched on CNN during Gulf#1.... How the H* did CNN get the video tape back so we could watch it??

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

10/13/2010 05:15:38 PM · #103

Originally posted by robs:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
LOL - reminds me of

lol... So that's how it's done... Maybe you can help with a question I never could figure out... Remember those smart missiles that we watched on CNN during Gulf#1.... How the H* did CNN get the video tape back so we could watch it??

Tape? I think CNN probably had satellite-uplink capability by then ... I believe a lot of the original bombardment was televised live (so to speak) -- looked just like a video game ... :-(

Message edited by author 2010-10-13 17:17:05.

fotomann_forever

10/13/2010 05:45:46 PM · #104

I'm a huge fan of giving up all our rights (and our children's rights) to "protect the children". Afterall, we all know it's the quickest way to circumvent that pesky Constitution.

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/13/2010 05:50:53 PM · #105

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Read the ruling. You are incorrect. The supreme court has already ruled that a tracking device does not constitute a "search"...

That was different technology, and the newer stuff has issues still to be decided.

LOL. Well, I guess the 9th circuit disagrees with you as they cited it as precedent. I'm sure they are embarassed at their error...

Perhaps, or perhaps we just have a legitimate disagreement over exactly how closely the governement can monitor your life. Also, though this decision sems a bit out of character, I believe the 9th Circuit has a recent history of being the most-over-ruled appelate panel in the Federal system ... not that the Roberts court shows any inclination towards the originalist interpretation that the Constitution's prime directive is to protect the individual from governement intrusion into their private affairs.

Isn't Scalia the only originalist on the court? Maybe I have my terms wrong. Listen Paul, there is certainly room for disagreement here and I respect your opinion.

one2one

Olympus E-5

10/13/2010 05:52:40 PM · #106

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Read the ruling. You are incorrect. The supreme court has already ruled that a tracking device does not constitute a "search"...

That was different technology, and the newer stuff has issues still to be decided.

LOL. Well, I guess the 9th circuit disagrees with you as they cited it as precedent. I'm sure they are embarassed at their error...

Perhaps, or perhaps we just have a legitimate disagreement over exactly how closely the governement can monitor your life. Also, though this decision sems a bit out of character, I believe the 9th Circuit has a recent history of being the most-over-ruled appelate panel in the Federal system ... not that the Roberts court shows any inclination towards the originalist interpretation that the Constitution's prime directive is to protect the individual from governement intrusion into their private affairs.

Isn't Scalia the only originalist on the court? Maybe I have my terms wrong. Listen Paul, there is certainly room for disagreement here and I respect your opinion.

I get shivers every time I hear that name. He's one scary bugger. Are you one of his fans Doc? Originalist, I need to look that up.

10/13/2010 06:07:11 PM · #107

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Read the ruling. You are incorrect. The supreme court has already ruled that a tracking device does not constitute a "search"...

That was different technology, and the newer stuff has issues still to be decided.

LOL. Well, I guess the 9th circuit disagrees with you as they cited it as precedent. I'm sure they are embarassed at their error...

Perhaps, or perhaps we just have a legitimate disagreement over exactly how closely the governement can monitor your life. Also, though this decision sems a bit out of character, I believe the 9th Circuit has a recent history of being the most-over-ruled appelate panel in the Federal system ... not that the Roberts court shows any inclination towards the originalist interpretation that the Constitution's prime directive is to protect the individual from governement intrusion into their private affairs.

Isn't Scalia the only originalist on the court? Maybe I have my terms wrong. Listen Paul, there is certainly room for disagreement here and I respect your opinion.

I get shivers every time I hear that name. He's one scary bugger. Are you one of his fans Doc? Originalist, I need to look that up.

No, I can't say that I am. He's pretty far to the right and I don't like to go there much. I like folks like Stevens, Breyer, or O'Conner much better. Not to say I've disagreed with every Scalia decision, but I've disagreed with more than I've agreed with. You keep thinking I'm some right-wing nutjob. Stop that. Do you know I've never voted for a Republican president?

Message edited by author 2010-10-13 18:08:16.

10/13/2010 06:43:24 PM · #108

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:
[

What's the difference between a wiretap and eavesdropping?

...I seem to recall that one needs a warrant for the first one.

Ray

Exactly.

10/13/2010 07:00:33 PM · #109

Originally posted by toddhead:

I debated even posting in this thread because all of this just seems ridiculous to me. Did the police just randomly choose some guy and hope he was doing something illegal? No. Pretty sure they knew what he was up to.

Would you still be bitter if this was a suspected pedophile they tracked and the GPS helped the police rescue your son or daughter before they were raped, tortured and murdered? How about if your wife, husband, brother, sister, son, or daughter was a drug addict and this guy was supplying them in trade for sexual favors? Would you still be screaming about personal freedom or would you be screaming at the police for not doing their job? I think people get so caught up in their own fight for personal freedom that they forget the bigger picture. Step back from your fight against the man and put it in a personal perspective and then see if you still want to fight the "good" fight. They aren't tracking you and me, they are tracking those they suspect are doing illegal activities. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

As for those who want to make the jump from placing a GPS tracker on a car in a driveway to placing tracking chips in all newborn babies. Really? Is that the next step? That is at least three or four... million... steps away.

The world isn't the same as it used to be, but I don't specifically blame the terrorists. I blame the internet. It has opened the world for every kind of weirdo this world has to offer and allows them to do and say anything they want. You can do a quick google search to find out how to make a bomb that could kill hundreds, if not thousands, of people in the right setting and guess what? I hope they track every single person who does that type of search. I hope they track them, place a GPS on their car, track all their credit card purchases, track their banking accounts, and bug their phones. Hell, they can even bug their house... and I don't care if they have a warrant or not. If it makes this world safer for my children then go right ahead and do it.

Flame away...

This is the same argument people use to justify torture...or any violation of rights by the authorities. If waterboarding a suspect saves one life, it's OK, right? How about vivisection on a suspect? What if, one day, you or your child was the suspect?

As for the GPS tags being millions of steps away...maybe...but a far easier technology to apply would be something like an RFID tag. The same kind of technology that keeps shoplifters from stealing things...or at least sets off the alarm at the door when the cashier forgets to deactivate it. It would be fairly simple to use a wireless network to then track people by estimating their location based on signal strength from various towers.

10/13/2010 07:02:17 PM · #110

The courts don't always agree.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

10/13/2010 07:05:23 PM · #111

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

You keep thinking I'm some right-wing nutjob. Stop that. Do you know I've never voted for a Republican president?

I don't know about Jac, but I have never doubted that you are a left-wing nutjob, doc. :P

rooum

10/13/2010 07:12:35 PM · #112

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You keep thinking I'm some right-wing nutjob. Stop that. Do you know I've never voted for a Republican president?

I don't know about Jac, but I have never doubted that you are a left-wing nutjob, doc. :P

For what it's worth- and i admit it may be not much- i think you are all complete nut-jobs. Honestly, think about it. You are all barking mad!! Entertaining nut jobs for sure, but nut jobs really.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

10/13/2010 07:14:38 PM · #113

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You keep thinking I'm some right-wing nutjob. Stop that. Do you know I've never voted for a Republican president?

I don't know about Jac, but I have never doubted that you are a left-wing nutjob, doc. :P

For what it's worth- and i admit it may be not much- i think you are all complete nut-jobs. Honestly, think about it. You are all barking mad!! Entertaining nut jobs for sure, but nut jobs really.

Nutjob?? Isn't that when a boy squirrel and a girl squirrel...oh nevermind.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

10/13/2010 07:20:31 PM · #114

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Personally, I think he's just a wing-nut.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/13/2010 07:24:27 PM · #115

Originally posted by Spork99:

It would be fairly simple to use a wireless network to then track people by estimating their location based on signal strength from various towers.

They already do that with your cell phone, though it's getting even more precise as cell phones become GPS-enabled. They can also track your vehicle through those pre-paid fare transponders ...

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Personally, I think he's just a wing-nut.

Message edited by author 2010-10-13 19:27:41.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/13/2010 07:33:29 PM · #116

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Read the ruling. You are incorrect. The supreme court has already ruled that a tracking device does not constitute a "search"...

That was different technology, and the newer stuff has issues still to be decided.

LOL. Well, I guess the 9th circuit disagrees with you as they cited it as precedent. I'm sure they are embarassed at their error...

Perhaps, or perhaps we just have a legitimate disagreement over exactly how closely the governement can monitor your life. Also, though this decision sems a bit out of character, I believe the 9th Circuit has a recent history of being the most-over-ruled appelate panel in the Federal system ... not that the Roberts court shows any inclination towards the originalist interpretation that the Constitution's prime directive is to protect the individual from governement intrusion into their private affairs.

Isn't Scalia the only originalist on the court? Maybe I have my terms wrong. Listen Paul, there is certainly room for disagreement here and I respect your opinion.

I get shivers every time I hear that name. He's one scary bugger. Are you one of his fans Doc? Originalist, I need to look that up.

No, I can't say that I am. He's pretty far to the right and I don't like to go there much. I like folks like Stevens, Breyer, or O'Conner much better. Not to say I've disagreed with every Scalia decision, but I've disagreed with more than I've agreed with. You keep thinking I'm some right-wing nutjob. Stop that. Do you know I've never voted for a Republican president?

Well can you blame him (i.e. assuming you're right-wing)? It seems like every time you play "devil's advocate" it's to support some right wing view. I certainly can't remember a single instance where you came rushing in to defend a liberal view on any of these polarizing issues.

Message edited by author 2010-10-13 19:39:23.

Abra

10/13/2010 07:34:21 PM · #117

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Spork99:
It would be fairly simple to use a wireless network to then track people by estimating their location based on signal strength from various towers.
They already do that with your cell phone, though it's getting even more precise as cell phones become GPS-enabled. They can also track your vehicle through those pre-paid fare transponders ...
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Personally, I think he's just a wing-nut.

Let's get with the times - I'm sure I watched an American documentry recently (with a bloke called Jack Bauer, I think it was titled '24') that showed you only need a satellite that can be easily positioned over your car, manouverable enough to follow this car though the city and a camera with such high resolution to see the bugs on the windscreen - at night - through clouds! That is why when ever I walk outside I look up and wave (at least with one finger)

:-)

10/13/2010 07:46:32 PM · #118

Originally posted by yanko:

Fair enough. But that's because there are very few right wingers participating in these threads so someone needs to step in and pull to the middle. If you guys were all Glenn Beck fanatics I'd be pulling in the other direction. One of the downsides of being in the middle is nobody agrees with you.

I'd have to think. Have we ever talked capital punishment? I'm pretty left on that. Taxation? Left. Environment? Left.

So the takehome is I'm always trying to pull you guys to the MIDDLE not to the RIGHT.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/13/2010 08:29:11 PM · #119

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by yanko:
Well can you blame him (i.e. assuming you're right-wing)? It seems like every time you play "devil's advocate" it's to support some right wing view. I certainly can't remember a single instance where you came rushing in to defend a liberal view on any of these polarizing issues.

Fair enough. But that's because there are very few right wingers participating in these threads so someone needs to step in and pull to the middle. If you guys were all Glenn Beck fanatics I'd be pulling in the other direction. One of the downsides of being in the middle is nobody agrees with you.

I'd have to think. Have we ever talked capital punishment? I'm pretty left on that. Taxation? Left. Environment? Left.

So the takehome is I'm always trying to pull you guys to the MIDDLE not to the RIGHT.

Actually I see alot of right wingers on this site especially when issues like this comes up but maybe you are just talking about America's version of left/right?

Anyway, it's downright frightening the things people will accept all in the name of security. It's no wonder we're not upset over some guy getting his car bugged when we have already become comfortable with the fact that Security 2.0 being conducted overseas has killed thousands and thousands of people who no doubt all want to rape our children even the innocent civilians who just had the unfortunate luck to not be born in Bombs Away America.

FireBird

10/13/2010 11:20:02 PM · #120

Originally posted by toddhead:

Did you ever consider that someone, maybe the kid, placed the device in an attempt to cause negative press for the FBI?

Snort! The FBI does quite a good job of this all by themselves.
I don't think they need any help at all. And looking like an idiot
can be advantageous.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

10/14/2010 01:27:02 AM · #121

Here's a request for info from all you regulars in these types of debates:

Define "Left Wing" and then the "extreme" version of that:

Define "Right Wing" and then the "extreme" version of that:

I am really baffled how people can be put in one box or the other because unless you are simply a yellow dog straight down the line on either side, it all depends on the specific issues. But I am genuinely curious to see how you define these things. Please don't use names of individuals as examples - I want to know the principles or beliefs that you attribute to being either left or right.

edit typo.

Message edited by author 2010-10-14 03:49:44.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

10/14/2010 05:05:17 AM · #122

Originally posted by Spork99:

The courts don't always agree.

Absolutely, and until this matter is resolved by the Supreme Court, all we are doing is pissing in the wind.

Ray

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

10/14/2010 05:08:19 AM · #123

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

...So the takehome is I'm always trying to pull you guys to the MIDDLE not to the RIGHT.

I don't know about the good old USA Doc, but here in Canada there is no "Right" remaining, and when you pull that way, you tend to fall into an abyss. :O)

Ray

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/14/2010 07:11:03 AM · #124

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...So the takehome is I'm always trying to pull you guys to the MIDDLE not to the RIGHT.

I don't know about the good old USA Doc, but here in Canada there is no "Right" remaining, and when you pull that way, you tend to fall into an abyss. :O)

Ray

Was this sarcasm Ray? Who is governing Canada atm? Would you rather have CRAP govern, although in essence that's what we have? (CRAP = Conservative-Reform-Alliance-Party. The name was dropped for obvious reasons) Now they're known as the Conservative Party of Canada and are in power trying to sway Canadians to adopt conservative values. Like building more prisons, hiring more police, keeping marijuana laws intact or reinforcing them and putting people in jail for smoking it in their homes causing no harm to anyone.

Are you for more prisons Ray? Even with crimes rates falling at unusually high rates throughout Canada, even North America? Are we going to fill them up with 18yr old pot smokers?