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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Here's what happens when you speak your mind here
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 93, (reverse)
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 06/24/2004 05:10:01 AM · #26
I think it was pretty ill-advised for people to post those retaliatory comments on your photos, Kevin, and I was disappointed to see what some people wrote. I read through all of your comments and found the majority of them to be both helpful and thoughtful, and it was extremely considerate of you to post that desaturation tutorial. You clearly have an interest in creating excellent photographs and helping others to do the same.

Like others, I have trouble reconciling all of that extremely thoughtful behavior with those few comments and forum posts that seem more like personal attacks than photography advice. I hope you and all the people who have participated in this discussion are able to get past this quickly and return to the real reason why this site is here - for all of us to help each other become better photographers.

Happy shooting, Kevin.
 06/24/2004 05:14:30 AM · #27
If his wife is a photo judge, she should be able to teach him how to comment/critique. I have had several photos judged in juried competitions and not once have I ever received a "what were you thinking" level of feedback from any of them.

Feedback from judges in juried competitions is very short and to the point. It's never degrading.

I'm not sure what GlacierWolf is after at this point. It must be simple attention since he posted this in three different forums. I won't post to this thread or any more like it beyond this. I shouldn't have posted to his original thread. I agree that feeding the trolls is the worst thing you can do...

That being said, I believe that GlacierWolf may be honestly trying to give useful feedback. I'm not in serious doubt of that possibility. My suggestion to him is as follows:

Stop leaving comments until you spend some time learning how to comment without being offensive. It's simple enough to express your dislike of any given photograph without going over that line. If you would like an example based on any of the critiques you have left in the past, please let me know which one and I'll be happy to show you how you could have written it without being offensive. You don't have to sugar-coat anything but you do need to know where the line is and not go across it.


06/24/2004 05:43:10 AM · #28
I dont go on forums very often and this is the exact reason why. I love this website for many reasons and one of them is the fact that we all share a common love for photography. It saddens me that people have to be nasty and think that it is ok to be cruel to others. Come on everyone, remember why we are here. This is so petty. Go back to basics and treat everyone how you would like to be treated.
 06/24/2004 05:55:52 AM · #29
Anyone whose profile pic shows them posing with their gun resting on a dead moose must enjoy courting controversy.

It's been an entertaining thread leading to some blatant honesty by many - albeit slightly angered. The odd spot of heat on this site really is not to its detriment but actuially adds to its cultural diversity. The threads will die a natural death soon enough...
 06/24/2004 06:16:11 AM · #30
Originally posted by Glacierwolf:
Thanks oskar (a past ribbon winner), mavrik, xion, heida, Beagleboy, and nazqul for trashing all my pictures because you disagree with my opinion. You must represent the true spirit of DPChallenge - the cream of the crop here - I am sure everyone is proud of what you've accomplished. Bravo!


= indiffrent

Oh yeah, and I won a ribbon too. I'm so insulted that you didn't mention that. ROFL!
06/24/2004 07:40:11 AM · #31
*takes a bow*

I feel honored, GW. I helped you become a martyr for overzealous commentors everywhere!! :)

As I said, your pictures DO suck. The manner in which I left comments just mimics your style. All my actual thought is in those comments, as well as a few pointed comments along the way of how people like me and you think. Didn't like them? Aww.

M
 06/24/2004 08:21:24 AM · #32
The man is a Troll

He posts inflaming thread topics and sits back and watches everyone take the bait and get thenselves all worked up.

Trolls exist across most "free" forums, he isnt the first or last or even remotely original.

Ignore him and he'll go off and bother another forum

Steve
 06/24/2004 08:50:46 AM · #33
In fairness, I read the comment you had left for other people. When dealing with such a wide spectrum of people, there are bound to be some consequences for leaving those kind of comments on other's photos. I, personally, would not do this but I'm not surprised that others did. You have to understand that you have people ranging from years of experience to people who have only taken a few photos in their lives. Comments should be helpful, not hurtful. We all need to do our part to encourage people to better their skills and pursue photograpy as a hobbie or career. I'm afraid all that you comments may do is scare people away from something they are having fun doing. Just my thoughts :)
 06/24/2004 08:52:21 AM · #34
Albeit I should probably leave this thread aloneâ€Â¦ However, I read the comments made by Glacierwolf and I read the various comments made on his photographs. All I can say is that I’m appalled!

Yes, Kevin’s comments are direct – he’s not sugarcoating his opinion. Perhaps he would do well to leave out “What were you thinking” but otherwise he does seem genuinely trying to help. I wonder how many of you have looked at his profile and taken into account that he is retired militaryâ€Â¦ I think that having come from that background, he is accustomed to a more direct method of communication.

The retaliatory comments made on his photographs were nitpicky and downright childish.

I am not taking sides on this issue – I think that’s irrelevant. We have a situation here that calls for ALL of us to think more carefully about how we communicate with each other. And no, that doesn’t mean that DPC users should turn into saccharin-spouting Pollyanna’s. Speak your mind but please, please, please do so with tact and decorum.
 06/24/2004 09:02:51 AM · #35
Originally posted by digistoune:
but otherwise he does seem genuinely trying to help.


On my Out of Place submission: "Ducks, water, and brush are always in place. I sure hope you are better with a shotgun than a camera."

How is that helping?
 06/24/2004 09:03:59 AM · #36
Purposefully retaliating is a whole different thing. Does a wrong make a right?

I would suggest people edit their comments so they are not personal attacks.

I am not taking sides. Commenters should find a way to be constructive - honest but constructive. This suggestion goes out to all parties involved, and to all those who are not currently involved in this particular issue.

06/24/2004 09:07:47 AM · #37
Originally posted by Tranquil:
Originally posted by digistoune:
but otherwise he does seem genuinely trying to help.


On my Out of Place submission: "Ducks, water, and brush are always in place. I sure hope you are better with a shotgun than a camera."

How is that helping?


You're right he's not saying anything about the quality of the picture, however, in a long winded way I'd say he's saying that it doesn't meet the challenge (in his opinion). You don't have to agree, just think again about why you thought it portrayed 'out of place'. Maybe the photo is just missing some context to make the portrayal better.
 06/24/2004 09:12:47 AM · #38
Originally posted by Tranquil:
Originally posted by digistoune:
but otherwise he does seem genuinely trying to help.


On my Out of Place submission: "Ducks, water, and brush are always in place. I sure hope you are better with a shotgun than a camera."

How is that helping?


True but I noticed at least one other comment that was rather rude - shall we start a new thread so we can gripe about that? Some posters are egotisitical, yes? Why let that get your feathers up? Just let it go and take the very good advice offered here - I believe Karen nailed it: be "honest but constructive".

Oh why can't we all just get along!?
 06/24/2004 09:14:38 AM · #39
Originally posted by digistoune:
Oh why can't we all just get along!?

Hey...that's not a bad idea...
 06/24/2004 09:25:54 AM · #40
Also, since this is not really about challenge results, I am moving this thread.
 06/24/2004 09:38:58 AM · #41
Hello Kevin ,
I'm Mambe from Spain and this is maybe the reason why I don't understand "american sense of humour" . I just have read some comments left by you and other left for you . I have had a look at your photos , in my opinion some are really good . So I suppose that it's only ENVY that some photographers feel .
I'm just a beginner but I hope to receive helpful critics when I'll post my photos.
As we say in Spain : take no notice of the stupid things paople say.
06/24/2004 09:46:00 AM · #42
I have tried to steer clear of this right from the beginning but come on.

You guys/gals are all playing into his little game. He is a bitter old man seeking attention and in the past two days we have given him plenty.

To me anyone who has to start a topic "I have been doing...for 36 years" is trying to justify their expertese not buy their works but because they say so. Talk is cheap and a good photo is worth a thousand words.

I'm not impressed by his works here or the web (the little look my name up on the web was a great exercise), to me he is just a genre shooter with little subject matter to shoot up north (not totally his fault). Still you have to have some sort of decent composition and then get it in focus.

For those of you that defend his choice of verbaige for his so called opinion, you are setting the stage for challenges to come. When it becomes ok to make Jackass sytle comments that are not really intended to help then that's what is going to follow.

Do you guys also defend Cut and Paste commenting? Cause that is exactly what GW did, which tells me the individual was too lazy to base an opinion about each photo and cheesed out but doing Ctrl-V for a lot of these. I have seen the exact comment the I received in the last attention getter that GW, so either he is cut & pasting or has a very small base of choices to use for commenting.

Leave the old dude alone, when he cries out for attention throw him a bone every once in a while and he will be happy. Someone likes his work, leave it at that.

When I seen his comment on mine I just blew it off as some old dude that needs glasses or an art appreciation course. His lack of "eye" does not hurt my feelings on bit.

This is all my opinion of course.

Message edited by author 2004-06-24 09:47:06.
 06/24/2004 10:19:37 AM · #43
Kevin. I think it does show something about this site and the level of emotional maturity of the members that thought it was important to respond to your thread in such a shameful way. I have read many times about how this site is composed of a diverse group of people and how that should be remembered when trying to overcome the communication barrier. Your style is brash. That might be because of your cultural background. I don't know. I do know there are a few other members that have a style of communication that I find offensive (one of them has posted how s/he was hurt by your comment and I can't help but laugh). But I have learned to take that into consideration when I read a post from them.
Your other thread did come off as arrogant, know it all, insulting, and so forth. But then again, maybe you were just so frustrated that you couldn't help trying to speak up about it. You did offer yourself up for execution at that point. Any "site", i.e. "group of like minded individuals" would have had to blast away at you because they perceive that as a direct attack. So, within that thread, you became the target. BTW, it was an interesting read and helped define the mentality of quiet a few members. Some gained my respect, some lost my respect. However. For members to cross out of the thread and leave nasty commments on your photos, imo, is beyond protecting the group. It shows the pettiness of a small mind. Sorry, guys. There is just no excuse for being spiteful. Good thing my pm doesn't work.
You did leave a helpful comment on my entry. Thank you.
 06/24/2004 10:20:13 AM · #44
GW:
Please have a look at my entries and I invite you to make comments on them. I have looked at your comments you have made and they were constructive.
Not enough do the same and very few take them as such
I think we should be able to answer "What were you thinking" and as such we demonstrate the thought process that took place prior to press that shutter release.
My pictures are far from perfect and I welcome any constructivecritic. Just pointing out of focus, blurry, boring, too small . . . is nit picking and does not demonstrate anything but static observation. anyone can see a blurry picture. This is not the find the mistakes challenge.
I do not post often and I am getting dizzy on this soap box, I am off.

Message edited by author 2004-06-24 10:34:36.
 06/24/2004 10:40:14 AM · #45
I have not seen the comments left in Desat that have stirred this community up. I have read G'Wolfs other comments and see no problems.

I have read those left recently for Glacierwolf by several folks - it is obvious they are trying to 'get even' and be spiteful. They are all WRONG and should be warned by the SC that this behavior is not acceptable here. I thought, er hoped, that we all left Grade School bahavior behind.

If G'Wolf's DeSat comments are off base, then let thos folks seek the SC's assistance in censuring the commenter. I know the SC will step in if comments are mean and rude. Even if the commenter thinks not.

Not to defend Glacierwolf, but I know how, umm, frustrating or discouraging it can be to look at 200-400 pics in a challenge and see many that, well, probably should not have been submitted. Not knowing the photographer's experience level makes it difficult to comment 'accurately' - a new member may be expected to submit a snapshot and can use and appreciate the help. If it is someone's 'last minute attempt jsut so i had an entry' type of thing, then perhaps they have earned a more direct comment. I have a tendency after seeing the 10th pic of a flower, most average or less in quality, to get a bit jaded and comment more directly. I now try to take a break and come back later.

As to cultural differences - I would bet big money that someone that lives in teh wilds of Alaska has less need to be PC and more need to be direct. I know I feel that way most of time, and if AK wasn't so damn cold I might go there myself!
 06/24/2004 10:46:22 AM · #46
Originally posted by bestagents:
...I know how, umm, frustrating or discouraging it can be to look at 200-400 pics in a challenge and see many that, well, probably should not have been submitted.

This is the phrase which comes off as arrogant, mean, and contrary to the purpose and spirit of DPC, and really pushes my button. The rules lay out quite clearly which photos should "be submitted" -- every other aspect of the photo is open to comment, but not that.

If you were a teacher, would you really tell the kids not to bother turning in their work if they didn't think they'd get an "A"?
 06/24/2004 10:49:28 AM · #47
hmm, two threads on this? people need to move on. (and yes, i recieved a comment as well)
 06/24/2004 10:58:50 AM · #48
I am really disappointed in the members here on dpc. I don't think this guy has made any bad comments. He is very helpful with is words. He is looking at your photo and giving you advice that I see is helpful. This is the exact reason why I don't give to many comments because the ones I do give aren't up to par for those who think their photos are incredibly awesome.

I would love to have a comments like this.

How long do all of you spend on a photo? 2 seconds...long enough to click a 4 and move on? Give this guy a break.

Don't give up...keep giving the comments, Kevin. It looks like some don't mind them.
 06/24/2004 11:02:19 AM · #49
Paul. If I was a teacher and didn't tell a kid that s/he wasn't living up to his/her potential, I'd fire myself. So, yes, I would tell the student to not submit unless he thought it had a shot at the title. What's the difference between getting a failing grade for a poorly executed picture and getting a failing grade for not submitting? Besides, this site could be considered as going for those extra points in class. You can chose when to submit and you will not lose points if you do not enter.
 06/24/2004 11:04:13 AM · #50
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by bestagents:
...I know how, umm, frustrating or discouraging it can be to look at 200-400 pics in a challenge and see many that, well, probably should not have been submitted.

This is the phrase which comes off as arrogant, mean, and contrary to the purpose and spirit of DPC, and really pushes my button. The rules lay out quite clearly which photos should "be submitted" -- every other aspect of the photo is open to comment, but not that.

If you were a teacher, would you really tell the kids not to bother turning in their work if they didn't think they'd get an "A"?


You would actually let your kid turn in work if it wasn't an A to him? My kids try their hardest at everything they do. If it is not an A to them then they wouldn't turn it in. Life should be like this. Why do something halfway right? Doesn't make sense to me. People should give it their all.

If you all want to show your snapshots then get a gallery somewhere, don't submit them to a challenge.
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