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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Save 4 web oversaturates image?
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 10/23/2004 04:41:49 AM · #1
I'm having some trouble with an image oversaturating when I save 4 web.

I convert the image to sRGB and resize, and the colours are as I want them but then when I try to save 4 web the photo colours become over saturated!

Am I missing something here, this seems to happen from time to time its very frustrating.
 10/23/2004 04:45:44 AM · #2
Originally posted by Gurilla:
I'm having some trouble with an image oversaturating when I save 4 web.

I convert the image to sRGB and resize, and the colours are as I want them but then when I try to save 4 web the photo colours become over saturated!

Am I missing something here, this seems to happen from time to time its very frustrating.


I have the opposite problem.. my colors desaturate when I save for the web, and I lose some brightness/contrast as well. It's very frustrating.
I'm slowly learning how to post-process so that the saving for the web will actually "fix" the image to what I'd like it to look like, but it's been a long process.. and still on-going.
It's always something.
 10/23/2004 08:14:44 AM · #3
if your useing a mac, in photo shop with the image open, go to "view - proof setup - monitor RGB"
this will give you a proof of what your image will look like when you save for web. You can do all of your editing in this proof mode. This should work the same with a PC
 10/23/2004 09:47:20 AM · #4
I think I found the problem.

The original version had not had the sRGB assigned. I saved 4 web and downloaded into dpc. When I viewed it looked like sh*t. So I went back and this time converted to sRGB before resize and save 4 web, then down loaded and looked again, it was the same, tried this several times and even went back to the tutorial step by step but it was still the same.

So how did I fix it I hear you ask, I updated the preview page, It was holding the old photo in cashe as I had resaved over the old file with the same name it did not refresh.. Duh duh duh...

Oh well learnt something new again.
 10/23/2004 10:02:23 AM · #5
Originally posted by ericlimon:
if your useing a mac, in photo shop with the image open, go to "view - proof setup - monitor RGB"
this will give you a proof of what your image will look like when you save for web. You can do all of your editing in this proof mode. This should work the same with a PC


OMG, you are my hero! For several years now I've been employing Artyste's method. What a PITA!!
 10/23/2004 12:00:57 PM · #6
Originally posted by ericlimon:
if your useing a mac, in photo shop with the image open, go to "view - proof setup - monitor RGB"
this will give you a proof of what your image will look like when you save for web.


Generally, this is a bad idea and doesn't really achieve the stated goal. If you don't have a (hardware) calibrated monitor, your results will be variable anyway, so I suppose it's double-plus harmful. If all you'll ever be doing is viewing the images on your own monitor over the web (or in non-color managed apps), then this method works as advertised. Here are (at least) two threads you can peruse for more information.
Thread 1
Thread 2
 10/23/2004 12:30:12 PM · #7
I have a similar issue with save for web, changing the saturation.
Haven't spent enough time to resolve it, but it does confuse me why it happens.

The images are in sRGB. The Save For Web preview is significantly more
saturated, particularly in the reds than the photoshop edited versions - with or without ICC profile checked in SfW. This saturation shift is visible in web apps like Firefox/ IE too.

For print output and other colour managed activities, my calibration seems pretty good - the prints from various targets look a reasonably close match, without this saturation shift.

Somewhere along the line something is screwed up - any suggestions ?

I don't want to edit in MontorRGB space, as this is essentially throwing away the colour management features.
 10/23/2004 12:35:22 PM · #8
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Originally posted by ericlimon:
if your useing a mac, in photo shop with the image open, go to "view - proof setup - monitor RGB"
this will give you a proof of what your image will look like when you save for web.


Generally, this is a bad idea and doesn't really achieve the stated goal. If you don't have a (hardware) calibrated monitor, your results will be variable anyway, so I suppose it's double-plus harmful. If all you'll ever be doing is viewing the images on your own monitor over the web (or in non-color managed apps), then this method works as advertised. Here are (at least) two threads you can peruse for more information.
Thread 1
Thread 2


But by selecting "monitor RGB" you get a better idea of what your image will look like on most computer screens. It's an average. Since everyones monitor is likely to be different, getting an overall average is better than not. Plus it gives you a preview of what your file will look like when you "save for web", instead of guessing what it will look like by keeping your settings at "working CMYK" IMO, the best bet is to preview it in "monitor RGB" as you do your adjustments. (for web applications only)
 10/23/2004 01:03:20 PM · #9
Originally posted by ericlimon:

But by selecting "monitor RGB" you get a better idea of what your image will look like on most computer screens. It's an average. Since everyones monitor is likely to be different, getting an overall average is better than not. Plus it gives you a preview of what your file will look like when you "save for web", instead of guessing what it will look like by keeping your settings at "working CMYK" IMO, the best bet is to preview it in "monitor RGB" as you do your adjustments. (for web applications only)


The problem is, Monitor RGB is just the profile you've happened to have picked in the OS colour management settings. You may have set this to sRGB. You may have used a spyder and calibrated your monitor, in which case Monitor RGB is an entirely different profile. You can check this by looking in the 'Edit ->Colour Settings' and RGB settings drop down.
If you scroll up, you'll see 'Monitor RGB - xxx' xxx is the actual profile that you've set for MonitorRGB [be sure and cancel this so you don't set your default RGB to 'MonitorRGB'

As a result, it might work, or might not work, depending on your OS configuration, if you've used a calibration spyder, etc etc. If you have a calibrated monitor, and you use MonitorRGB, it'll look great on your screen - and pretty crappy on anyone elses - certainly not average sRGB.

Message edited by author 2004-10-23 13:06:56.
 10/23/2004 01:06:07 PM · #10
Following up on my previous post:

I only have PhotoCal loading in the startup folder (often this is a problem, if you have two calibration apps like Adobe Gamma and photocal running - if you are having problems it is worth checking your Startup folder and make sure only one is loaded)

I did find the problem though. There is a setting in 'Save For Web'
that defines the colour profile to use in the conversion. I'm not sure, but this may be new for Photoshop CS - I don't remember seeing this menu in previous versions.

Click on thumb for larger version


Switching this menu from the default 'Uncompensated Colour' to 'Use Document Colour Profile' fixed all of the saturation shift problems I've been having when using Save for Web.

Maybe that'll help some people.

To be clear, my colour workflow is:

RAW convert, to ProPhotoRGB (16 bit)
Edit in 16 bit, resize to web size.
Image -> Convert to Profile,
Destination sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Engine: Adobe (ACE)
Intent: Relative Colourmetric or Perceptual, depending on how it looks
Black Point Comp On
Dither On

Then, Save For Web, with the 'Use Document Profile' now selected and the ICC profile attached. With this selected, I do not get any colour shift between the sRGB converted image in Photoshop, and the 'Save for Web' preview, which was the problem I had before - the images would become much more saturated.

The images then look fine in my browser. Doing a bit of digging in the Photoshop help, I also found that only MacOS browsers support tagged profiles, with the rest defaulting to sRGB (or I guess, MonitorRGB if it is different)

Message edited by author 2004-10-23 13:28:06.
 10/23/2004 02:41:28 PM · #11
Hey Thanks for all the info Gordon! And thanks for taking the time to do the research. It's totally helpful :) (but I run on a mac)
Peace!
E

Message edited by author 2004-10-23 14:45:58.
 10/23/2004 02:59:05 PM · #12
Originally posted by ericlimon:
Hey Thanks for all the info Gordon! And thanks for taking the time to do the research. It's totally helpful :) (but I run on a mac)
Peace!
E


Pretty much all the info is the same for a Mac, except how you set the default system profile - The 'MonitorRGB' setting in Photoshop is from the OS colour management, so it will vary, depending on how you colour mange your system. It defaults to sRGB though.

If you are saving the files with in an sRGB colour space, all web browsers should treat it the same way, regardless of if you tag it or not.

There is still the gamma issue between PC & Mac, but other than that, the profiles should all be correct and look right.

Message edited by author 2004-10-23 15:00:53.
 10/23/2004 05:44:43 PM · #13
Originally posted by Gordon:
Switching this menu from the default 'Uncompensated Colour' to 'Use Document Colour Profile' fixed all of the saturation shift problems I've been having when using Save for Web.

That's strange cause the PS help says "Activating a preview option will not affect final image output" and these options are only for gamma compensation. I can confirm that this is true, but 'Use Document Color Profile' still makes more sense (especially w/sRGB) for preview. I suppose the slight shifts you see in the preview are due to differences in monitor calibration (2.2, yes?) compared to sRGB (which is only approximately 2.2).
 10/23/2004 06:06:24 PM · #14
Originally posted by ericlimon:
But by selecting "monitor RGB" you get a better idea of what your image will look like on most computer screens. It's an average. Since everyones monitor is likely to be different, getting an overall average is better than not. Plus it gives you a preview of what your file will look like when you "save for web", instead of guessing what it will look like by keeping your settings at "working CMYK" IMO, the best bet is to preview it in "monitor RGB" as you do your adjustments. (for web applications only)


I have to assume you didn't actually read through the thread links I provided. There are better, more correct ways to provide a web preview.
 10/23/2004 06:41:44 PM · #15
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Originally posted by ericlimon:
But by selecting "monitor RGB" you get a better idea of what your image will look like on most computer screens. It's an average. Since everyones monitor is likely to be different, getting an overall average is better than not. Plus it gives you a preview of what your file will look like when you "save for web", instead of guessing what it will look like by keeping your settings at "working CMYK" IMO, the best bet is to preview it in "monitor RGB" as you do your adjustments. (for web applications only)


I have to assume you didn't actually read through the thread links I provided. There are better, more correct ways to provide a web preview.


well, I just read those links, and changing my setting when I'm working on a web only image, seems to work perfect for me. I did it for my last several entries, and it seems to work on the majority of computers. I'm using monitor RGB as my working space.
I keep my color profile in photoshop CS at sRGB. So all of my print work is assigned that profile? (I'm asking in that last sentence. You have a lot more knowledge about color profiles than I do) But there is still a shift in color when I "save for web" But when I want to work on an image that will be saved for the web only, switching the "monitor RGB" seems to work. ie: I switch my proof view to "monitor RGB first, do all the final editing, then doing a "save for web" and it looks exactly the same in the sfw preview as it does on the screen (while open in photoshop) and the same once it's been uploaded onto the net. I believe you when you say that this is not the best way, but It appears that i still don't understand profiles that well.

Message edited by author 2004-10-23 18:43:00.
 10/23/2004 07:06:35 PM · #16
I fixed these problems by going into Edit -> Color Settings and then setting the RGB Working Space to "Monitor RGB".

Then in the Save for Web window I choose "Uncompensated color" in the menu at the top right (which has been mentioned before).

I shoot a 10D and use the default colour space setting on the camera which I believe is sRGB. If you shoot using Adobe RGB then you're on your own.

John
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