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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Save for Web?
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Showing posts 1 - 23 of 23, (reverse)
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06/30/2004 10:49:13 AM · #1
OK, I think I might have figured out the tumbnail thing for my Pbase images here. I got PS all set up with my new monitor and the color looks amazingly good on screen in PS and prints look extremely good as well. I decided to try the save for web option for the pictures in this gallery and the color certainly looks different. I clicked to use windows color in the options menu and I am wondering if that is what my problem is.

Do my pictures here appear to have a color cast to them?

' . substr('//image.pbase.com/u47/dadas115/small/30771238.IMG_9439640.jpg', strrpos('//image.pbase.com/u47/dadas115/small/30771238.IMG_9439640.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

You can see the rest of the gallery here:

//www.pbase.com/dadas115/bb_062604

Can anyone give me any tips about using the Save for Windows option in PS? Is it even worth messing with?

Thanks,

Greg
06/30/2004 11:19:01 AM · #2
Greg:

Save For Web is part of my standard DPC workflow (as I described in this thread). The only time I ever see "color shifts" when I go view them in IE is when I forgot to "Convert" them to sRGB first.

Also, remember that most every web browser is not "color calibration aware", so in Photoshop you have to choose "View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB" to see how IE will render the colors.

Message edited by author 2004-06-30 11:20:34.
06/30/2004 11:32:06 AM · #3
What is the advantage of save for web?

Greg
06/30/2004 11:34:24 AM · #4
It will take out colours that cannot be displayed on the web making the file size much smaller.
06/30/2004 11:39:29 AM · #5
Thanks for the answer. Is that all it does? Did you get a chance to look at some of my pics in that gallery? If so did you notice any color cast?

Thanks,

Greg
06/30/2004 11:49:25 AM · #6
The page didn't load for some odd reason so I couldn't have a look.

edit: typos

Message edited by author 2004-06-30 11:49:43.
06/30/2004 11:53:44 AM · #7
Try this link:

//www.pbase.com/dadas115/bb_062604

Greg
06/30/2004 11:57:37 AM · #8
Originally posted by xion:

It will take out colours that cannot be displayed on the web making the file size much smaller.

That's not quite accurate. Save For Web allows you to select "GIF" as a format (which has an option to restrict the color palette to "web safe" colors), but it does not have any effect on the colors in JPEGs.

What "Save for Web" does do is remove an extraneous "junk" from the JPEG, so as much of the file size is dedicated to actual image data as possible.

To see this for yourself, create a thumbnail (say, 150x100), and save it as a normal JPEG, quality 6 or 7, with Photoshop's "Save As..." command. Now do the same thing with "Save For Web", saving it with around a quality of 60. Compare the file sizes. The one where that was saved "normally" will be much larger because it will have all sorts of extra JPEG sections present (such as color profile, Photoshop data, etc.) The "Save for Web" version doesn't have any of this extraneous stuff. The intended purpose is to make the images as small as possible while maintaining the desired quality so they load quickly for web visitors. The benefit for DPC use is that you can maximize the 150KB that you are given for image data.
06/30/2004 12:04:06 PM · #9
Sorry about the simple answer. But I thougt dadas was interested in optimizing jpegs.
06/30/2004 12:12:31 PM · #10
Yes Xion, I am interested in optimizing jpg’s and I appreciate everyone’s help.

Greg
06/30/2004 12:19:45 PM · #11
Originally posted by xion:

But I thougt dadas was interested in optimizing jpegs.

He is, but "Save for Web" does not "take out colours that cannot be displayed on the web" (unless you use that specific option when saving GIF images. There is no such option for JPEGs).

If you aren't working in the sRGB color space, you will see a shift in your image colors when you choose "Save for Web". The correct thing to do in that situation is to hit Cancel, and then "Image > Mode > Convert to Profile" and select "sRGB" as the destination space. Then choose "Save for Web" again.
06/30/2004 12:27:15 PM · #12
I rest my case. My answer was inaccurate. I am sorry about that.
06/30/2004 02:37:00 PM · #13
I will try this as soon as I get home. This must be the problem that I am having because the saved for web pics look very different from the regularly saved versions of the images.

Thanks very much,

Greg

Originally posted by EddyG:

Originally posted by xion:

But I thougt dadas was interested in optimizing jpegs.

He is, but "Save for Web" does not "take out colours that cannot be displayed on the web" (unless you use that specific option when saving GIF images. There is no such option for JPEGs).

If you aren't working in the sRGB color space, you will see a shift in your image colors when you choose "Save for Web". The correct thing to do in that situation is to hit Cancel, and then "Image > Mode > Convert to Profile" and select "sRGB" as the destination space. Then choose "Save for Web" again.
07/07/2004 11:37:53 AM · #14
Originally posted by EddyG:

If you aren't working in the sRGB color space, you will see a shift in your image colors when you choose "Save for Web". The correct thing to do in that situation is to hit Cancel, and then "Image > Mode > Convert to Profile" and select "sRGB" as the destination space. Then choose "Save for Web" again.


I must be doing something wrong because my jpeg images (saved from tiff) look washed out and even a little blurry when I use 'save for web'. What do I do?
07/07/2004 12:25:57 PM · #15
bump
07/07/2004 12:34:47 PM · #16
Originally posted by dadas115:

What is the advantage of save for web?

Greg


It is mainly a way to let you see the impact of the optimisation - you can get a 4 up view of the file at different compression levels. You can see the effect of GIF or JPEG encoding on the file. You can play with the colour options a bit. It typically also strips the EXIF info, to save file size and usually strips colour profiles too (though you can add these back in)

My favourite feature of 'save for the web' though is that you can give a specific file size and have the file saved just smaller than that - it'll automatically search for the compression settings that gives the optimial result within the filesize constraint you set - I use this all the time, particularly for contests like dpc and others with file size limits.

The 'optimise to file size' option hides under the black |> pulldown menu. I either use 150k or often, 147k and then add the EXIF data back in to the image before submission.

Message edited by author 2004-07-07 12:35:53.
07/07/2004 01:20:10 PM · #17
Originally posted by EddyG:

Also, remember that most every web browser is not "color calibration aware", so in Photoshop you have to choose "View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB" to see how IE will render the colors.


Why would you ever do this if you're converting your image to sRGB?
07/07/2004 01:46:34 PM · #18
Originally posted by dwoolridge:

Why would you ever do this if you're converting your image to sRGB?

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong and you can educate me (you seem to know a lot more about color management, hardware details, etc. than I do. =])

Even after using "Convert to Profile..." to convert to sRGB, there is still a difference between what you see in Photoshop and what you see in IE. By selecting View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB, this profile appears to match exactly what IE will display. (Selecting a "Proof Setup" menu item has the side effect of enabling View > Proof Colors, which you can then toggle on and off to see the difference between how it is displayed in Photoshop and in non-color-managed applications like IE).

If there is something I'm missing, I'd love to know, since I'm always looking for ways to improve my workflow, especially when it comes to color management issues.

Message edited by author 2004-07-07 13:47:11.
07/07/2004 06:03:16 PM · #19
What about saving a JPEG image to be printed from Adobe Photo Shop? Should this be done with just a Save at Maximum? Are there other considerations?
07/07/2004 08:44:15 PM · #20
Originally posted by EddyG:

Originally posted by dwoolridge:

Why would you ever do this if you're converting your image to sRGB?

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong and you can educate me (you seem to know a lot more about color management, hardware details, etc. than I do. =])

Even after using "Convert to Profile..." to convert to sRGB, there is still a difference between what you see in Photoshop and what you see in IE. By selecting View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB, this profile appears to match exactly what IE will display. (Selecting a "Proof Setup" menu item has the side effect of enabling View > Proof Colors, which you can then toggle on and off to see the difference between how it is displayed in Photoshop and in non-color-managed applications like IE).

If there is something I'm missing, I'd love to know, since I'm always looking for ways to improve my workflow, especially when it comes to color management issues.


Taking a wild stab at it, IE is 'sorta' profile aware, in as much as your OS is actually profile aware. What I mean here is that you set a profile for your monitor - if it is 'far' from sRGB, then you'll probably see a shift - if your monitor isn't calibrated, or your OS is set to use the sRGB colour space, then you won't see any difference.

So I don't really mean that it is profile aware - but a profile is always in play. If your Monitor profile isn't sRGB then MonitorRGB will match IE on your machine because it would then be soft proofing it for your monitor set up, although the sRGB version (i.e., without soft profiling) will more accurately reflect what the unwashed masses will see.

To demonstrate this - go in to your display properties, change the profile and you'll see a difference when you use MonitorRGB - it is a shortcut to use the currently in use profile.

This does not mean I'm recommending using sRGB for your monitor profile - but it'll explain the colourshift you see between them.

Message edited by author 2004-07-07 20:46:47.
07/08/2004 01:01:56 AM · #21
Originally posted by EddyG:

Even after using "Convert to Profile..." to convert to sRGB, there is still a difference between what you see in Photoshop and what you see in IE. By selecting View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB, this profile appears to match exactly what IE will display.


1. Color-managed applications, and PS in particular, do behind-the-scenes color space conversion(s) before sending them to the display device (assuming you have a monitor profile due to calibration/profiling or whimsy).

2. Display devices calibrated to D65/2.2 do not yield results identical to sRGB (even though it's D65/2.2 - actually only approximately gamma 2.2): the reference primaries will likely differ; the white point may be slightly off; the black point is almost certainly different (especially if your calibration device can adjust for ambient light).

3. Choosing "Monitor RGB" is equivalent to telling PS to send the color data directly to the display device without any behind-the-scenes conversion (to your display device profile). In actuality, the CMS (behind-the-scenes conversion) sees that the proof target profile is the same as your display device profile so it does nothing. In other words: Please show me what this sRGB (or other) image will look like on my monitor.

4. If you take your sRGB image and try to assign your monitor profile to it (Image > Mode > Assign Profile) with preview on, you'll see the same effect as (3).

5. IE takes your sRGB image and sends it straight to your monitor since it isn't a color-managed application. This is equivalent to (3) and (4).

6. If you calibrate/profile your display device to something much different from sRGB, say D50 gamma 1.8, the difference will be more dramatic. More to the point, what does (3) do for you in this case? Rather, what does it not do for you? It doesn't tell you what everyone else is likely to see, which is supposedly what "Windows RGB" is for (they should really call it "Web RGB").

7. I prefer having another proofing entry, which I call "web" that is like "Windows RGB" except it doesn't have "Preserve Color Numbers" selected. However, I actively convert my images to sRGB when appropriate. Some people might like manipulating images in a non-sRGB color space using "Windows RGB" for proofing and then never convert them, relying on broken (err, not color-managed) browser behavior. If you don't strip the profile in these cases, the image will look incorrect (depending on the editing color space) in color-managed browsers (assuming the embedded non-sRGB profile remains intact).
07/27/2004 09:39:56 PM · #22
Save for web (in PS) is great, except I can't seem to keep the EXIF data. I'm able to keep the EXIF when optimizing from ImageReady (optimize>options>add metadata).

Is there a way to keep the EXIF in save for web in PS?
07/31/2004 01:50:25 PM · #23
This thread helped me SO much. Thank you for explaining this process. I've been driving myself crazy trying to figure out why my pictures look so much less brilliant once I upload them, but now I just know I have to color correct them in the Monitor RGB Proof Setup Mode. THANK YOU!!
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