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08/25/2004 10:52:22 PM · #1 |
First, Thank you to the two people who gave my Neon entry a 10 and to the one person who chose it as a favorite:
Normally if an entry of mine goes into the sub 5 range I rage about at the obvious lack of intelligence of the voters for a while, then settle down and look at my shot as if it was not mine. Usually I come to the conclusion that 150-300 voters are probably better judges of my work than I am and end up agreeing with the score.
This time, however, I have to say I don't agree. The comments I got on my shot mostly said it was too dark with one (from someone I expected to understand the whole irony and setup better than most) that seemed to indicate that the meaning was lost.
This entry is one of my shots that I think came out closest to my vision.
1. For those who did not get it, it is a shot of a man sleeping on the sidewalk in front of a store that sells mattresses, made obvious by the NEON sign for Sealy Posturepedic Mattresses. Now I guess that some people from other countries may not know what a Sealy is so I expected some misunderstanding. But everyone I showed the picture to at work, immediately laughed at the joke. So I expected most people to Get It.
2. Too dark. I tried several different brightnesses of flash and found that the others were too bright. They all seemed too unrealistic (why would some guy who has to sleep on the sidewalk, sleep under a street lamp?). So the darkness was just the feel I wanted in the shot. I may have fallen into the 'Everything looks darker on my screen than yours pit', but I actually turned mine down a bit to make sure it still looked right.
3. Contrast. Yes. I did tweak in Photoshop including contrasting enough to bring out the sign despite its glare. What grain there is is mostly the material of the shirt and any other is part of the dark feel I was going for.
4. Forum posts before and during the challenge showed many people bemoaning the fact that many entries were just shots of neon signs with no context to give them any interest. That was exactly what I wanted to avoid with my shot and I feel I succeeded. The neon sign was not an afterthought or a 'By the way' to shoehorn it into the challenge. Everything in the shot was integral to the meaning.
Basically, I am not trying to insult anyone and I do appreciate all the comments that were left. I need to know why people do or don't like my pictures. Most shots, I agree with most comments. This one, I just feel strongly different from the comments.
If anyone sees the picture differently as a result of this post or feels that it is still a bad picture, please feel free to let me know. As for me, this is one of my favorite shots from the past year and a half.
drg |
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08/25/2004 11:04:17 PM · #2 |
That is a tough one? I actually LOVE the concept, and I do get it, but something is missing. I just think that most of all, a change is framing would have made all the difference. The line in th emiddle disracts me, along with the other sign on the right. Dont get me wrong, these are just a couple consructive critiques. I hope they are what you were looking for! Best of luck!
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08/25/2004 11:06:15 PM · #3 |
| I probably would've gave a "5" for this shot. The idea was very good, but the darkness of the sleeping figure seem to disrupt the scene. I bet that if you included a white pillow people would understand that you were being humorous otherwise I think lot's of people may have thought that it was snapshotish. |
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08/25/2004 11:07:43 PM · #4 |
Not me. . I like the picture a lot and I gave it a high score because it was one of the small number of ones that had a little more to it than just a neon sign. I used to come to work in the winter, and there was a homeless lady (who I kind of befriended by bringing her soup during my lunch hour), and she would be wrapped up in a blanket sleeping on the sidewalk. For some reason, your picture reminded me of her & the sad conditions some people find themselves in.
I'll tell you tho. . .I'm kind of new to dpc and by nature, I'm kind of sensitive to being criticized, but it's been a great opportunity to practice taking it all in stride and learning from the constructive comments, and blowing off the ones that aren't. There is such a wide range of subjective tastes and opinions about what makes a good picture, and generally, the voting to me always seems to be lower than I would think. . . .so. . . all that to say. . .I hope it doesn't bother you too much. A lot of people liked the picture a lot, and more importantly, YOU like it, so who cares, right????
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08/25/2004 11:13:26 PM · #5 |
David,
I did see the connection between the Sealy sign and the man sleeping. I think the best aspect of this photo is the irony. While it is an amusing photo, I feel it doesn't have the technical quality I look for in photos. I find it to be dark and my eyes have to wander from the main subject to see that sign way up in the corner rather than looking at the photo and seeing it as a unified image. I gave it a 4.
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08/25/2004 11:20:05 PM · #6 |
I got the joke right away, but I rated this a 5 because of the lack of technical direction. You say that you wanted it dark to convey the sense that this is someone sleeping, but the human mind tends to make connections of that sort on its own, and I believe this photograph would have benefitted from increased lighting on the sleeping subject.
I also, like parrothead, am finding it a little tough to convey exactly *what* it is that I find missing from this photo, and I agree that framing could be a huge part of it.
In the end though, what matters is that *you* really like this piece, and although it didn't do as well in a challenge as you'd have liked, you still have this shot, you still enjoy it, and many more challenges are to come.. no? |
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08/25/2004 11:59:02 PM · #7 |
i gave it a 6 and left a comment which you found helpful :-)
imo ideologically its a good photo, but technically its is lacking a bit...
since pictures speak louder than words here is what I would have done with what you had
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08/26/2004 11:45:20 AM · #8 |
Thanks to all for your honest comments. I guess I will just have to accept that what I think is perfect could still be considered a flaw by others. But that is what makes this site so informative (and mostly fun).
nico_blue,
Very interesting treatment of my shot. I can see the benefits. Not sure on this site whether the tall crop would be more negative than the cropping out distractions would have helped.
Maybe my alternate shot would have scored higher?
drg |
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08/26/2004 12:03:34 PM · #9 |
The best photographs tell a story and this one meets that criteria very well.
But the technical aspects of this photo are lacking, not so much in image texture, but in the image composition.
Perhaps a curb level aspect would have helped, and the other sign in the window is distracting.
Otherwise...What a great concept!! |
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08/26/2004 12:12:21 PM · #10 |
| I was going to suggest something similar to nico_blue. The unrelated sign on the top right is distracting, and there's too much separation between the Sealy sign and your visual punchline. Maybe if the model were sitting up against the wall (but still obviously sleeping), you could compose a vertical shot that ties together better. Add a sombrero and you could have shot in full sun to appease the "too dark" crowd. ;-) |
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08/26/2004 12:16:46 PM · #11 |
Hi David,
I liked the irony in your Sealy shot very much, but I thought the technical aspects of the pic drew the score down. The flash just didn't work, IMO, because it provided too much illumination to things you would have been better off minimizing (sign on the right). Did you try a longer exposure, tripod mounted? I don't know what the ambient light was like in the setting, but with several shots bracketed for exposure, you might have gotten one that didn't blow out the neon sign, but still allowed you enough latitude to play with the levels a bit and get a good view of the sleeper, and maximize the shadow play the ambient light would have created.
I initially scored this shot a 7 but bumped it down to a 5 after more reflection. I certainly should have left a comment but I had more photos to get through and never got back for adequate comments. |
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08/26/2004 12:17:14 PM · #12 |
Ouch... I must confess, I am one of those who scored the picture on the low end. In part because *I* didn't get it. Now that you explained it, I do. So I apologize for that.
I still would not have scored it above average, however. Mainly because the photo lacked a certain "presentation quality".
I think that most of the highest scoring photos are ones that I would just love to print and hang on my wall. There is so much "impact" in the image itself as to make the picture desirable.
But in this case, the image required some understanding of the irony which, again I apologize, I didn't "get" upon seeing it the first time. And I think that requirement (of having to 'get' the photo), in part, leads to the lack of impact.
Anyway, others have mentioned things like composition, lighting, framing, etc. All of those go into the overall presentation of the photo too. So don't give up. Take the idea and experiment with it and see if other ways of presenting the idea can have more "impact".
P.S.
I make no claim to be an expert photographer myself. I'm here to learn just like everyone else. I do believe, however, that each of us has our own "eye" towards what we like and what we don't. And to that end, if you have produced an image that you like, then you have accomplished something very important. Don't let others tell you otherwise!
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08/26/2004 12:25:48 PM · #13 |
| IMO I think if you would of had the person sitting on the window ledge leaning his head up against the left side of the window like he was trying to get some sleep (as if he was very tired) it would of been great. The man would of covered up the distracting logos in the window. Then crop the photo to just the one pane glass. The picture had great potential. |
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08/26/2004 12:40:29 PM · #14 |
| Well, I gave you a 6 because I liked the clever use of sleeping rough outside of a store that sells matresses. The overall picture didn't quite work for me though, lacking the fabled 'WOW' factor! It was a little on the dark side and the Neon sign did not grab me as the focus of the shot. I agree entirely that you deserved a better placing. |
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08/26/2004 12:40:32 PM · #15 |
I think the concept is a good one, but I have no emotional connection with the man on the ground because I can't see him very clearly. Taking the image by JBosie below as an example,
, you can obviously place more light on your subject and still get the mood of nighttime across. While it may seem less realistic to have a person sleeping under a street lamp, it's a compromise you have to make to have a workable image. You also should've gotten closer. I just feel too removed from the shot. My 2 cents, take them for what they're worth. |
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08/27/2004 01:00:14 PM · #16 |
If your asking for an opinion, then give one I shall, it's poor composition, badly exposed and not very interesting, completely lacking in emotion looks like a shot from a local newspaper.
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08/27/2004 01:03:16 PM · #17 |
I have to agree with this comment, nothing really more to say about that one...sometimes the brutal truth helps more than the less than honnest pat on the back...
at least it has for me.
You also mention that darkness is what you were aiming for...but then why try all these different flash intensities that you mention in point two?
Message edited by author 2004-08-27 13:06:34.
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08/27/2004 01:36:40 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
sometimes the brutal truth helps more than the less than honnest pat on the back...
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Brutal, but honest. Hurts, but appreciated. All comments are viewer's opinions (not necessarily truth). Read them, judge them with as objective an eye as you can, use the ones you think are right or help you and discard the ones you end up disagreeing with. That's what I do with all comments regardless of how they are worded or how they initially affect me.
Originally posted by Gil P:
You also mention that darkness is what you were aiming for...but then why try all these different flash intensities that you mention in point two? |
I had to try several levels because you can't tell what the final product will look like on the small viewer on the back of the camera. This one looked too dark there, but just right when viewed on the computer monitor at home.
And, of course, only Ansel Adams took a single picture knowing it will be right. The rest of us take multiples so that at least one is comes out right.
drg
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08/27/2004 01:39:06 PM · #19 |
For me (didn't enter or vote on this) this has the hallmarks of a snapshot.
While it's a great bit of journalism - and it's certainly not light on irony - it suffers terribly from the flash and, more importantly, its viewpoint. This in my view is the key. It's shot at eye level which removes all sense of secret observation and makes no attempt to draw the viewer to the subjects or tie the two elements together.
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08/27/2004 03:27:34 PM · #20 |
Well. I'm no Ansel Adams...but here is something I have on my wall:
"the difference between a photographer and a person who takes pictures is that when the photographer looks thru the viewfinder, he/she see's the printed image" |
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