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07/22/2022 02:22:19 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
I keep on thinking about better examples, say you were invited to a movie set and are allowed to take photos, everything around you was designed by other people, would your shots be DQ'd at DPC?
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I have a better example, say you went to a museum like, say, a Charlie Chaplin museum where they set up entire scenes of movies and so forth, take care of all the lighting, create realistic sculptures of the actors, put them in dramatic arrangements, and all you do is step up to them and snap a photo. Will that be DQ'd? No.
I love that you show us there is no firm boundary between creation and copying, and force people to question their own ideas about what a photography challenge should be. I bet there are quite a few people who would question their votes if they realized they were judging a museum snapshot, and maybe that would make them question reality more generally. That's all an artist could ever hope for! |
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07/22/2022 02:39:23 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
I keep on thinking about better examples, say you were invited to a movie set and are allowed to take photos, everything around you was designed by other people, would your shots be DQ'd at DPC?
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I have a better example, say you went to a museum like, say, a Charlie Chaplin museum where they set up entire scenes of movies and so forth, take care of all the lighting, create realistic sculptures of the actors, put them in dramatic arrangements, and all you do is step up to them and snap a photo. Will that be DQ'd? No.
I love that you show us there is no firm boundary between creation and copying, and force people to question their own ideas about what a photography challenge should be. I bet there are quite a few people who would question their votes if they realized they were judging a museum snapshot, and maybe that would make them question reality more generally. That's all an artist could ever hope for! |
To me, this isn't a better comparison. The photographer is still using a camera, and photographing a scene they are seeing. Like being in a sculpture park and taking photos of someone else's artwork.
For purposes of the rule set, neither of these scenarios beaks the artwork rule. Unless you took a photo of a photo of the movie set or sculpture garden and passed it (or a portion of it) off as your own.
For purposes of the virtual vs actual photo convo, the only way I can see virtual compositions being incorporated into DPC is as stand-alone challenges - where everyone is aware that these are virtually created images. Or once-per-month "anything goes" challenges with zero restrictions.
But if we are to be a challenge site, then the playing field should be even. Otherwise, it would be like allowing extended editing in standard challenges. |
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07/22/2022 02:42:30 PM · #28 |
| If we allow images completely done "in computer", then we would have to open the doors for photo-reproductions or scans of (our own) paintings and drawings, wouldn't we? |
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07/22/2022 02:50:29 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
I keep on thinking about better examples, say you were invited to a movie set and are allowed to take photos, everything around you was designed by other people, would your shots be DQ'd at DPC?
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I have a better example, say you went to a museum like, say, a Charlie Chaplin museum where they set up entire scenes of movies and so forth, take care of all the lighting, create realistic sculptures of the actors, put them in dramatic arrangements, and all you do is step up to them and snap a photo. Will that be DQ'd? No.
I love that you show us there is no firm boundary between creation and copying, and force people to question their own ideas about what a photography challenge should be. I bet there are quite a few people who would question their votes if they realized they were judging a museum snapshot, and maybe that would make them question reality more generally. That's all an artist could ever hope for! |
To me, this isn't a better comparison. The photographer is still using a camera, and photographing a scene they are seeing. Like being in a sculpture park and taking photos of someone else's artwork. |
Just because you have a technicality that makes it clearly separate in your ruleset doesn't make it a bad comparison. I'm not interested in what technically fits in this ruleset. If you read to the end, hopefully you'll realize that I was going way beyond that.
Originally posted by "tanguera":
But if we are to be a challenge site, then the playing field should be even. Otherwise, it would be like allowing extended editing in standard challenges. |
The playing field is not even. The playing field is never even, nor can it be. That's not the reason for rulesets. |
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07/22/2022 02:51:38 PM · #30 |
Don't ever tell a poet his comparisons are bad!!!!
LOLOLOL |
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07/22/2022 04:02:47 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Don't ever tell a poet his comparisons are bad!!!!
LOLOLOL |
LOL, fair enough.
But the rule sets ARE the way WE try to even the playing field. Even if no playing field is ever even. |
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07/22/2022 04:33:32 PM · #32 |
| Let me just add here, that our "rules" aren't intended to make the playing field "even" (as Posthumous correctly points out that's an unattainable state of affairs) but instead to DEFINE the playing field for the given competition. |
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07/22/2022 04:41:53 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Let me just add here, that our "rules" aren't intended to make the playing field "even" (as Posthumous correctly points out that's an unattainable state of affairs) but instead to DEFINE the playing field for the given competition. |
That was the meaning I intended |
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07/23/2022 02:55:23 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by LevT:
... I still would love for DPC to remain in the realm of "real photography" where taking photos of a real world with a real camera is involved. Or am I just too old and cranky? |
+1 |
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07/23/2022 03:10:09 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Tiberius:
Originally posted by LevT:
... I still would love for DPC to remain in the realm of "real photography" where taking photos of a real world with a real camera is involved. Or am I just too old and cranky? |
+1 |
+2
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07/23/2022 03:16:33 AM · #36 |
I think there is an ongoing confusion here, I did not advocate to make ALL challenges truly FREE, just one per month which is less than 10% of all challenges!!
Thanks, Bear, for starting the other thread, I will refrain myself from posting there. Unfortunately I am increasingly pessimistic that any change will happen :( |
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07/23/2022 04:23:17 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
I think there is an ongoing confusion here, I did not advocate to make ALL challenges truly FREE, just one per month which is less than 10% of all challenges!!
Thanks, Bear, for starting the other thread, I will refrain myself from posting there. Unfortunately I am increasingly pessimistic that any change will happen :( |
I realised that and said in the other thread that I'm not opposed to the idea, but it would need to be a separate challenge, not one falling under the current extended rule set.
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07/23/2022 05:47:21 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
My Dreams have been crushed ;) I have no desire to be restricted, I just paid subscription on 1x and will spend some time there. See you later!! :) |
Margaret, don't take your toys and leave. Then the leaving becomes a pattern of frustration. You can certainly participate on both or other numerous sites.
Your older photos previous to your involvement with 3D were amazing. The new 3D are still evolving. There is room for all experiments.
I too am part of 1x and have some pictures there that were not marked very high here or totally ignored. But I do enjoy this site for the reason that is still a site devoted to photography.
As your mentioning:
"Christophe is a genius, I am a mere mortal, what took him 20 hours would take me 200."
We do not define "genius" as the person who spends a lot of time on creating a work of art of any form or using a technique in a masterly way. Christophe had great "simple" images also that probably did not take a lot of time unless he wanted to which seems to be his way of approaching anything. Nothing wrong with that.
I have no problem in some expert editing where people show their new technical exploits.
I use 3D and it satisfies me somehow BUT NOT AT THIS SITE.
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07/23/2022 09:50:15 PM · #39 |
| Speaking of Christophe has anyone heard from him lately? |
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07/23/2022 11:22:02 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by mariuca:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
My Dreams have been crushed ;) I have no desire to be restricted, I just paid subscription on 1x and will spend some time there. See you later!! :) |
Margaret, don't take your toys and leave. Then the leaving becomes a pattern of frustration. You can certainly participate on both or other numerous sites... |
I didn't say goodbye, just see you later ;) At the moment I have entered just one more Standard Editing challenge here that isn't in voting, when I enter the next one I don't know but I am hoping that maybe some middle ground can be reached for my 3D work in the next Extended Editing FS :)
For example, I could photo-scan an object (usually takes few hundred to few thousand photos depending on the size and complexity of the object) and then convert it to a 3D mesh with my photos as the surface material. I would use that as the main subject of the final image with computer generated background (no photos of other people used), wouldn't it be somewhat similar to textures allowed now in Standard Editing? And I did create stars in Photoshop before for an Extended Editing Christmas card and nobody had any problem with that. |
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07/24/2022 04:09:17 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Speaking of Christophe has anyone heard from him lately? |
He's at 1x. The images don't seem to be sorted by date so I don't know how active he is, but he uploaded this one on 20 July: https://1xondemand.com/featured/the-drowsy-chaperone-christophe-kiciak.html
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07/24/2022 06:48:03 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Should I really be punished for trying to break some conventions that may be by now very outdated and conservative? |
No, but if you're going to break convention, or do anything that isn't covered in a ruleset, then bring it up for discussion to the SC and/or community before you enter it and risk a DQ.
You had to know that this was going to trip you up.
Originally posted by tanguera:
.. Christophe introduced 3D modeling into DPC several years ago, but managed to create using his own raw materials... |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Christophe is a genius, I am a mere mortal, what took him 20 hours would take me 200. |
Christophe didn't become a genius overnight. He worked his ass off and spent a zillion hours to get to where he is now.
For perspective, your abilities are as unattainable to me as Christophe's are to you.
You stated that what he does in 20 hours would take you 200.
What you do I wouldn't even attempt. I may not have the ability, I certainly don't have the skills and experience.
I'm content with where I am.
You have to understand that there are many of us that due to either lack of talent, drive, or both are going to rise to a certain level and remain there.
Those of you who constantly push the envelope and bring more and better techniques to the table are inspiring and enjoyable.
Message edited by Bear_Music - a little too much moralizing at the end.... |
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07/24/2022 03:24:05 PM · #43 |
Here's a link to all of Christophe's 1x portfolio:
Christophe/Gyaban |
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