Dear Notre dame of hypocrisy - DPChallenge Forums

04/19/2019 02:17:31 AM · #51

AbbÃ© Pierre was a French monk and social activist who became a saint like figure here in France, in my opinion his devotion in helping the poor would be difficult to equal. When he died in 2007 the nation mourned his loss for weeks and his funeral was held in Notre Dame.

When the donations for Notre Dame had reached 400 million the foundation Abbe Pierre tweeted this:

"400 millions pour Notre-Dame, merci Kering, Total et LVMH pour votre gÃ©nÃ©rositÃ© : nous sommes trÃ¨s attachÃ©s au lieu des funÃ©railles de l'abbÃ© Pierre". "Mais nous sommes Ã©galement trÃ¨s attachÃ©s Ã son combat. Si vous pouviez abonder 1% pour les dÃ©munis, nous serions comblÃ©s".

400 million for notre dame, thanks Kering, Total and LVMH for your generosity: we are very attached to the place where AbbÃ© Pierreâ��s funeral was, but we are also very attached to his combat, If you could give 1% of that to the poor we would be fulfilled (more than happy)

Donâ��t forget the Quasimodoâ��s of today.

Message edited by author 2019-04-19 02:56:11.

04/19/2019 03:15:59 AM · #52

Originally posted by posthumous:

stopping people from donating to Notre Dame won't do a thing about climate change.

You can tell a real proposal to fight climate change because everyone hates it.

My favorite example is taxing oil. Oil has a terrible cost, and should therefore be taxed much more than it is. Everyone hates the idea of gas prices going up. After all, it punishes the poor regular guy who has to drive to work. But eventually people will not be expected to drive as much, and will adjust their lives accordingly. Telecommuting will increase. Yes, it will be painful. But it gives us a chance to continue as a species.

But everyone hates the idea. That's how you know it's a good one. Because change hurts, and everyone hates change, and if we don't change, we perish.

I canâ��t argue with you at all here, the dead guy speaks what is.

We hate change only when itâ��s in direction of an apparent loss for ourselves, when we believe the change is in a positive direction, we crave it, in fact thats our whole functioning mechanism. Like you say for survival as a species we will have to embrace the having or getting less side of things.

MargaretNet

Sony DSC-RX100 VII

04/19/2019 06:06:10 AM · #53

Originally posted by gyaban:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It seems to me especially important to recognize that for the very wealthy, 60% of the donation is a tax write-off in France. In other words, for every billion donated for the restoration, that's 600 million LESS the government has in its coffers... We all know who covers the shortfall, right? :-(

In this case, that's false. This particular law (the one about the 60%) is capped, and the big donators involved here are already maxed out. The write-off does not apply.

Thanks, Christophe. It is horrifying to see these days how many false statements are used to support views aimed at inciting discontent and to drive personal agendas.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

04/19/2019 08:21:25 AM · #54

Originally posted by marnet:

Originally posted by gyaban:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It seems to me especially important to recognize that for the very wealthy, 60% of the donation is a tax write-off in France. In other words, for every billion donated for the restoration, that's 600 million LESS the government has in its coffers... We all know who covers the shortfall, right? :-(

In this case, that's false. This particular law (the one about the 60%) is capped, and the big donators involved here are already maxed out. The write-off does not apply.

Thanks, Christophe. It is horrifying to see these days how many false statements are used to support views aimed at inciting discontent and to drive personal agendas.

Capped means they've already donated their maximum tax deductible amount, it means it will be much easier to buy a Louis vuitton bag that costs half the price of a car in Versailles for example. The luxury companies that donated these sums know the importance of France's image on their earnings. The buildings they help renovate will be much prettier for their donations, their is no doubt about that. The charities here are saying, just donate a small amount of that to people in need, please.

A beautifully restored building is pretty to look at, a homeless family isn't.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

04/19/2019 09:29:51 AM · #55

Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by marnet:

Originally posted by gyaban:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It seems to me especially important to recognize that for the very wealthy, 60% of the donation is a tax write-off in France. In other words, for every billion donated for the restoration, that's 600 million LESS the government has in its coffers... We all know who covers the shortfall, right? :-(

In this case, that's false. This particular law (the one about the 60%) is capped, and the big donators involved here are already maxed out. The write-off does not apply.

Thanks, Christophe. It is horrifying to see these days how many false statements are used to support views aimed at inciting discontent and to drive personal agendas.

Capped means they've already donated their maximum tax deductible amount, it means it will be much easier to buy a Louis vuitton bag that costs half the price of a car in Versailles for example. The luxury companies that donated these sums know the importance of France's image on their earnings. The buildings they help renovate will be much prettier for their donations, their is no doubt about that. The charities here are saying, just donate a small amount of that to people in need, please.

A beautifully restored building is pretty to look at, a homeless family isn't.

Again -- Please don't assume how the money was spent. I find it laudable that they've already donated that much! If you have facts and figures as to where that large amount of money has gone, I'd love to see them. I would think you'd be surprised.

If we're able to determine that the money donated went to useless causes, I'll jump on your bandwagon. Until then, I won't assume that their money is wasted.

That's the same as Jeb saying he doesn't think much of Christians, because of those who are abusing the process. The churches around here quietly go about their business, which includes sheltering homeless when the temps are bad, feeding the poor, donating their space to scouts, choral groups, AA meetings, among many many many others. My neighbor down the road does meals on wheels, I do a lot of volunteer work for the environment, ad infinitum.

The point is: you can't possibly KNOW what else is being done unless you're the auditor.

Since we're talking about a cathedral, I have to add: judge not, lest ye be judged. :)

In my words: why assume the worst? If these donors have already helped the area substantially, and they're obviously not doing it for tax reasons, why is it horrible that they want to take their bottom line to help something historic and architecturally important? They've already donated their max. How kind of them to give more back.

04/19/2019 10:29:26 AM · #56

Wendy, if the charities here are asking the big luxury goods companies to donate only 1% of what they have donated to Notre Dame, what does that mean? They know who donates to them.

Iâ��m not a Christian but Iâ��m aware of the good that can be and is done through the church, my mum helped out for years delivering meals etc, itâ��s great, some of the kindest people Iâ��ve know have been of the Christian faith. Iâ��m also aware of the bad the church has done, that isnâ��t the question here and it doesnâ��t even need to be mentioned.

The AbbÃ© Pierre foundation held a rock concert for charity a few years back, it was on the banks of the Seine, some of the slogans used there are perfect for this exchange of perspectives, the rockstar being Notre dame of course:

â��Why does the single voice of a Rockstar make more noise than the thousand cries of the desperateâ��

"Unlike a homeless person, when a rockstar shows his hand, everybody rushes to grab it."

So Wendy, what would Jesus want ? A magnificent edifice in his name, or less poverty? You come across as a very kind person and I think you would choose less poverty. This discussion wouldnâ��t be happening if they were doing both, it would be great if that was the case but thats just not whats happening and it vexes some.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

04/19/2019 11:14:22 AM · #57

I wonâ��t post anything else on this subject, hopefully I didnâ��t offend anybody and if I did, sorry.
Hopefully the pretty cathedral will get rebuilt, the homeless will get help and the planet will survive.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

04/19/2019 05:55:49 PM · #58

Originally posted by jagar:

Dude!

Don't toss in the towel! This whole incident, what's going on all over the world with change in society on multiple different levels, and being forced to look into ourselves as well with social media, relatives, and even the guy two doors down who you've known for years seems all of a sudden to have an axe to grind, has been an eye-opener.

It's funny, 'cause I'll generally go further with my thoughts here 'cause I feel closer to y'all, and that makes it really surprising when someone rocks my boat.

I will almost always look at a viewpoint longer and deeper when someone here says something I don't necessarily agree with because of the way this community seems to hold a level of respect for others.

Besides, you're fun to argue with 'cause you're smart and you can support viewpoints that I may be on the other side of so I have to be able to support mine while considering yours.

Yeah.....that funny burning smell is 'cause ya made me think!

MAK

Leica M Monochrom

Leica 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 Vario Elmar-T ASPH

04/20/2019 03:33:23 AM · #59

Thank God they managed to remove the most valuable items 4 days before the fire....... just saying. carry on.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

04/20/2019 08:59:46 AM · #60

Originally posted by vawendy:

That's the same as Jeb saying he doesn't think much of Christians, because of those who are abusing the process. The churches around here quietly go about their business, which includes sheltering homeless when the temps are bad, feeding the poor, donating their space to scouts, choral groups, AA meetings, among many many many others. My neighbor down the road does meals on wheels, I do a lot of volunteer work for the environment, ad infinitum.

Yah, well.... I'd like to clarify that a little. I'm not saying I hasve no use for all Christians, but I'm more of a guy who rolls with the "actions speak louder than words" ethos. I belonged to one denomination that was a bunch of really nice, well-intenioned folks who were very concerned with social justice. They had a ton of good ideas, some very ambititious and enterprising people who held meetings, set up programs, and just in general were concerned about doing good and trying to change the world. But they were so busy framing up their plans and having the constant meetings that very little came to fruition. Their sister church bought a church "in the 'hood" and they were going to enact change there, clean up the neighborhood, and put their plans into practice. I got involved with them during this Christmas portrait program they put together. This portrait thing was at the church in the 'hood they had just bought. They offered free family portraits for the local residents on the premise that this was something they weren't likely to have available to them. It was a massive undertaking, it went really well, and the people were pleased with themselves for their success. Lots of back patting and congratulations all 'round.

I saw something different. I met some of the families while shooting their portraits and got to know the dying congregation that the church org I belonged to bought. They were a group of quiet, older people who were the few left from a congregation that simply was running out of time and not attracting new members. Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays they had community day.....locals could come buy and have coffee and donuts. They had a food bank where small lots of non-perishables, all donated, were distributed. They had a small allocation of bus passes for people who didn't have cars to be used for interviews, doctor appointments and the like. There were vouchers for local food banks, and lastly, a small clothing bank. These older folks worked their tails off trying to do what they could for as many people as possible for three hours three times a week and I got to see what truly giving people were all about. I found that I could take less than $10, go across the street to the market and buy two cases of ramen noodles. Then I'd watch as one or two noodle cups nade their way into the food bags. I rooted out my closet and bought clothes in........and I'd watch as some guy in winter would try on a flannel shirt I didn't wear so much any more, and see him go out into the cold a little better off than when he came in. I hung in there with that church for the next year and a half while they faded away and the new folks took over and never since have I seen a better example of what truly good, caring, and giving people do without shouting it from the rooftops. It made me graetful every single time I went in to help out that I am as fortunate as I am. Those folks showed me what Christians were all about. Yet that church tanked, their few remaining congregants scattered, and the new regime is in full swing as pillars of social justice.

Then I see these assholes like Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Joel Osteen, and that lot and they make me want to puke. They're disgusting. They're everything that's wrong and the complete antithesis of Christian ethics.

So, my standpopint is from what I see from the loudest majority. Of course, like anything else on this blue marble, there is good and bad, but you sure have to look carefully and hard to find decent examples of what it means to be a good Christion, IMNSHO.

MargaretNet

Sony DSC-RX100 VII

04/20/2019 12:08:47 PM · #61

Just seen another protest by Yellow Vests in Paris, are they the ones who are in need of the money of the rich?

Message edited by author 2019-04-20 12:09:04.