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06/07/2004 12:35:02 AM · #1 |
Dictionary.com defines them as:
A self-propelled passenger vehicle that usually has four wheels and an internal-combustion engine, used for land transport. Also called motorcar.
However, a motorbike is also an automobile, matches the first half but not the second of this definition. Maybe I am wrong and a motorbike doesn't count as an actual "automobile", now I even have myself confused.
Planes - that excludes helicopters then I assume.
I saw this challenge, and like the topic, and thought it was going to be one of those nice clear ones, like 3's.
Sadly, I can already see different people's definitions playing a role here in the grey areas like motorbikes and helli-chopters.
(edited to fix numerous typos)
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 00:37:44.
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06/07/2004 12:40:58 AM · #2 |
| What's even worse is that I took a bunch of photos at the airport today (6/6) before I checked out this week's challenge. I guess I'll be back to the airport later on this week. |
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06/07/2004 05:59:50 AM · #3 |
Photograph a mode of transporation -- your options are limited to planes, trains, and automobiles.
why does this sound so hard or like a trick question?
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06/07/2004 06:34:12 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by tolovemoon:
why does this sound so hard or like a trick question? |
I'm not suggesting it's a trick question, just that the term automobile is ambiguous.
Does automobile mean cars only, or does it an transport vehicle with an engine. Even dictionary.com can't make it's mind up.
Some people are going to decide "automobiles" means "motorcar", as per dictionary.com, and mark down motorbikes (for example). Others will decide it includes motorbikes, which matches the same definition, and many others, and thus feel wronged if they are marked down.
The term AUTOMOBILE means different things depending on where you look, hence it is ambiguous.
Get everyone reading the same definition and bang goes the problem ... not possible. So I am suggesting it needs to be clarified.
If dictionary.com can't get it's own answer straigt in one paragraph, what chance do DPC'ers have of all deciding it menas the same thing.
So ... what is your definition of an automobile, in exact words?
I don't think you can get one that does not clash with the above in some way.
I was just pointing out it is ambiguous was all. To you it is not, you have YOUR definition ...... it either included or excludes motorbikes ..... either way you are at odds with others who will define it another way.
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 06:35:02.
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06/07/2004 06:57:32 AM · #5 |
Well, Natator, it's up to you. You can play it safe and submit something that is completely within the bounds of the challenge description or you can try pushing the envelope like you seem to be advocating.
My guess is that you have a subject that doesn't really fit, hmmm? 
Best of luck.
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 06:58:01.
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06/07/2004 07:27:30 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
My guess is that you have a subject that doesn't really fit, hmmm? |
Nope, not got a subject at all, and deciding am I advocating pushing the boundaries is not what I was doing at all *sigh*
Was just pointing out that with some thought, this is not the black/white definition some think it is.
I am sure you're right ..... absolutely everyone will equate automobile to mean car and nothing else. Too easy.
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 07:30:11.
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06/07/2004 07:30:24 AM · #7 |
A motorcycle is a motorcycle, not an automobile. Saying that a motorcycle is a kind of automobile is like cursing in church.
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06/07/2004 07:32:59 AM · #8 |
If we are looking at definitions then...
Plane : a tool for smoothing or shaping wood
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06/07/2004 08:18:19 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Natator:
If dictionary.com can't get it's own answer straigt in one paragraph, what chance do DPC'ers have of all deciding it menas the same thing. |
I quite agree. I really wish people would stop using dictionary.com as an authoritative source of correct definitions. Let's be honest, it's hardly the highest quality dictionary available. |
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06/07/2004 10:49:57 AM · #10 |
Wow and here I thought the challenge was quite simple.
Plane = plane
Train = train
Automobile = car
And I'm sure there will be extra points given if you get a good picture of all three at the same time without cheating!
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06/07/2004 10:51:29 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by moodville:
Wow and here I thought the challenge was quite simple.
Plane = plane
Train = train
Automobile = car
And I'm sure there will be extra points given if you get a good picture of all three at the same time without cheating! |
But can a Automobile also equal Truck? :)
Deannda
Causing trouble, hehehe |
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06/07/2004 11:10:52 AM · #12 |
Well.... taking a picture of a train here in NYC is a challenge in itself, since everyone is paranoid about cameras being on or near trains. LOL.
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06/07/2004 11:16:56 AM · #13 |
| Why - whats so bad about taking a photo of a train ? |
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06/07/2004 11:20:05 AM · #14 |
the 'and' is inclusive, right ? So if you don't have a plane, a train and an automobile then that's an automatic -5 vote from me!
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06/07/2004 01:07:35 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Falc:
Why - whats so bad about taking a photo of a train ? |
Because of terrorist threats they are passing laws here in NYC so you cant do it. Although the law is not in effect yet, the police have already started harassing people.
Also here is a story I cut and pasted from the NY TIMES speaking of the Subway Protest this weekend:
At a protest by photographers, you see things like a guy taking pictures of a guy taking pictures of a few more guys taking pictures of one another.
There was such a protest yesterday, but it might take hundreds of pages to describe it, given all the pictures that were taken, each one worth at least a thousand words.
The photographers - about 100 of them - gathered to express their outrage at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's proposed ban on taking pictures in the subway system. Meeting at Grand Central Terminal, they rode the trains for upward of an hour, shutters clicking, flashes popping, in a filmed rebuke to the idea that photography is somehow a national security threat.
"The point is really to make everyday people wake up and realize that photographers are not terrorists," said Joe Anastasio, who organized the event. "In the last few years, photographers near anything vaguely important have been getting harassed."
Mr. Anastasio went on to tell the story of a friend who took his wife's picture near the Whitestone Bridge, only to be called in for questioning by the police. He told another of a man caught snapping pictures at a Metro-North station who was interrogated for nearly two hours by authorities at the scene.
"The paranoia," he said, "has gone a little too far."
The transit authority's proposal, posted on its Web site, says the agency is planning to adopt "a general prohibition against photography and videotaping in the system." The agency is soliciting public comment on the ban and plans to vote on the proposal in the next few months.
"It's a security measure," said a spokeswoman for the agency, Deirdre Parker. "It was suggested by the N.Y.P.D."
Mr. Anastasio and his fellow photographers said it was ridiculous that pictures of the subway might somehow make the trains unsafe. After all, they said, there are thousands of subway photographs already on the Internet.
"The subway is so well documented that what's the point?" asked Jean Miele, a fine art and commercial photographer. "This sort of thing makes us less free, not safer."
Infuriated that his photographic rights might in fact be curtailed, Mr. Anastasio sent messages to several friends, asking them to show up yesterday to photograph the subway. They did - with Nikons, Leicas, Canons and such. There were an $8,000 digital job and a cheap mini that showed a nudie picture through its viewfinder.
When a downtown No. 6 train arrived, the photographers began to cheer. They boarded in a herd and held their cameras up, taking pictures of other hands holding cameras up.
At the 14th Street station, they split into two groups, stood against the walls and photographed each other across a corridor. This had varying effects on the people passing by. One woman fixed her hair before she ran the gantlet; another covered her face.
One guy said to his buddy, "Hey, what's with all the paparazzi?"
His buddy said, "Dunno, I think it must be you."
There was a tense moment when the crowd decided it would photograph a transit police dispatch station at 14th Street. A startled officer came out and suggested that they leave.
"You didn't say 'Cheese!' " one of the cheekier photographers said.
When an L train finally arrived, they tried taking pictures of the motorman. He was not keen on this idea, however, and blocked his window with an advertising circular.
Many of the photographers said they planned to post their pictures on the Internet - Jared Skolnick, for example, who takes pictures of the subway on his cellphone and then displays them online.
"I've learned that so many crazy things can happen on the subway," said Mr. Skolnick, who paused and then added, "including this."
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 13:22:01.
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06/07/2004 02:00:29 PM · #16 |
| Personally, I won't vote down anything with a motor and wheels as an automobile - whether it's a bus, a motorcycle or a motorized go-kart. However, wondering if there are any people out there who are going to be picky picky belabouring this point. I hope not. That can be very irritating. |
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06/07/2004 02:19:50 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by BooZon:
If we are looking at definitions then...
Plane : a tool for smoothing or shaping wood |
Plane: A Euclidian geometric construct having only two dimensions. |
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06/07/2004 02:34:22 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by BooZon:
If we are looking at definitions then...
Plane : a tool for smoothing or shaping wood |
Plane: A Euclidian geometric construct having only two dimensions. |
A trowel-shaped tool for smoothing the surface of clay, sand, or plaster in a mold. |
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06/07/2004 02:36:43 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Dictionary.com defines them as:
A self-propelled passenger vehicle that usually has four wheels and an internal-combustion engine, used for land transport. Also called motorcar.
However, a motorbike is also an automobile, matches the first half but not the second of this definition. Maybe I am wrong and a motorbike doesn't count as an actual "automobile", now I even have myself confused.
Planes - that excludes helicopters then I assume.
I saw this challenge, and like the topic, and thought it was going to be one of those nice clear ones, like 3's.
Sadly, I can already see different people's definitions playing a role here in the grey areas like motorbikes and helli-chopters.
(edited to fix numerous typos) |
texttext
Helicopters are airplanes with a rotary wing as opposed to a fixed wing. Aerodynamics are equally important for helicopters and fixed wing aircraft.
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06/07/2004 02:45:18 PM · #20 |
| A plane is also a level or degree, as in "Prince Siddartha meditated until he reached nirvana (enlightenment) and achieved a higher plane of existence as the Buddha." |
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06/07/2004 02:48:29 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
A plane is also a level or degree, as in "Prince Siddartha meditated until he reached nirvana (enlightenment) and achieved a higher plane of existence as the Buddha." |
text
Would that be considered a mode of transportation? In some sense, probably yes!
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06/07/2004 02:50:26 PM · #22 |
OK...maybe I am a bit dense (very likely), or tired (extremely likely), or just plain confused (most likely of all). Then again, maybe it's just me...but is there such a thing as overanalyzing the challenge just a bit? Like the old song says..."C'mon people now"...take a picture of a plane, a train, or an automobile...it's not rocket science. :o)
[believe me - there is no disrespect intended to those who have offered very valid and plausible definitions of the aforementioned challenge subjects]
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06/07/2004 02:59:16 PM · #23 |
| I'll throw in my 2¢... if you really want to win a ribbon, your best bet is to not go for a "creative" interpretation of the challenge theme. It is quite clear to me that the intent of this challenge is photograph a means of transportation that is restricted to the subset of airplanes, cars and trains. Now a helicopter may technically be an "airplane" and a "motorcycle" may technically be an "automobile", but if you want a better shot at a ribbon, you won't include those things in your composition. Sure you are free to submit a photo of whatever you want, just like you can in any challenge. But in my experience, you're much better off "hitting the voter over the head" with the obviousness of how your photo meets the challenge in the most straight-forward way... |
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06/07/2004 03:09:35 PM · #24 |
It is pretty much common sense that the DPC voters maintain a conservative view of what meets the challenge and vote accordingly.
If you want to experiment, don't expect a high score! For me, the bottom line is whether or not I have learned something that improves my ability to create a pleasing photograph.
I've got a long, long, way to go, but for me, meeting the challenge is the most important criteria in this venue. Loose definitions and stretches of the imagination won't wash.
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06/07/2004 03:13:08 PM · #25 |
Funny definition found by searching google: what is an automobile?
Definitions of Automobile on the Web:
A transportation device hailed as the solution to the problem of providing transit without creating the pollution generated by a horse.
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