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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> second amendment vs first amendent
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 08/27/2015 08:13:52 AM · #51
Gun control and restriction is heralded as common sense in most modern countries, it works, we know it does, there isn't even an argument. Can you imagine in England or Germany people demonstrating for the right to bear arms because it might save lives, they would be laughed of the streets.
 08/27/2015 08:16:22 AM · #52
Originally posted by Cory:


Thing is, I object to the 'Someone couldn't control themselves with a gun, so now no-one gets guns anymore' approach.


me too.

what i dont object to is the 'a whole fuckload of people can't control themselves with guns, so now no-one gets guns anymore' approach.
 08/27/2015 08:23:26 AM · #53
Originally posted by jagar:
Gun control and restriction is heralded as common sense in most modern countries, it works, we know it does, there isn't even an argument. Can you imagine in England or Germany people demonstrating for the right to bear arms because it might save lives, they would be laughed of the streets.


what cracks me up is in the US, everywhere you look there is an effort to promote longer lives and safety and then we try to regulate something manufactured with the sole intent to kill and its met with heavy opposition.
 08/27/2015 10:24:47 AM · #54
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Cory:
Thing is, I object to the 'Someone couldn't control themselves with a gun, so now no-one gets guns anymore' approach.

And yet the only ones to propose such a "solution" seem to be the gun-rights defenders.


Logical conclusion. I'm pretty sure that it will start with "small, common sense restrictions" and in twenty years what seemed crazy will be heralded as common sense.


You could take the time to read the laws regarding firearms in Canada History of Firearms Laws in Canada and you would be surprised that even with these restrictions the country has not outlawed firearms possession.

There are to this date oodles of people that are licenced owners of firearms. Perhaps the big difference is the ability to acquire a weapon and the rules regulating the storage and transportation of same.

Ray

Message edited by author 2015-08-27 12:31:54.
 08/27/2015 12:14:54 PM · #55
08/27/2015 01:17:43 PM · #56
Originally posted by Luciemac:


Very strange indeed.
 08/27/2015 01:20:51 PM · #57
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Cory:
Thing is, I object to the 'Someone couldn't control themselves with a gun, so now no-one gets guns anymore' approach.

And yet the only ones to propose such a "solution" seem to be the gun-rights defenders.


Logical conclusion. I'm pretty sure that it will start with "small, common sense restrictions" and in twenty years what seemed crazy will be heralded as common sense.


You could take the time to read the laws regarding firearms in Canada History of Firearms Laws in Canada and you would be surprised that even with these restrictions the country has not outlawed firearms possession.

There are to this date oodles of people that are licenced owners of firearms. Perhaps the big difference is the ability to acquire a weapon and the rules regulating the storage and transportation of same.

Ray


If only the US worked like Canada... We tried your heathcare thingy too - certainly didn't work out like Canada's has. See, this is the thing, while the IDEAS that some folks here have are great, and in a vacuum they would work wonderfully, we have thing thing called the US government, which seems to be full of idiots, corruption and ineptitude... If I believed in the government's ability to execute effectively, I'd probably be a lot more likely to support the 'common sense' measures that keep getting brought up.
 08/27/2015 01:22:17 PM · #58
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Luciemac:


Very strange indeed.


What's strange is how you think this somehow makes a point that is of use.

The ONLY thing this convinces me of is that I'm right to worry that at least a significant portion of the folks who are for gun control are in fact in favor of bans, and are just using gun control as a sneaky way to start that process.

Message edited by author 2015-08-27 13:24:14.
 08/27/2015 01:23:54 PM · #59
Sounds like we need a revolution, Cory? But hopefully, not your typical revolution with guns & mayhem. Be nice to have a revolution at the polls, eh? (You're SUCH a dreamer, Bear...)
 08/27/2015 01:24:56 PM · #60
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Sounds like we need a revolution, Cory? But hopefully, not your typical revolution with guns & mayhem. Be nice to have a revolution at the polls, eh? (You're SUCH a dreamer, Bear...)


Do we ever brother. Do we ever. And yes, I'd much prefer that we don't do it with violence.. (but history says that won't be how this would go down)
 08/27/2015 01:26:33 PM · #61
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Luciemac:


Very strange indeed.


What's strange is how you think this somehow makes a point that is of use.


Strange that you can't see that it's the only point that really counts.
08/27/2015 01:28:35 PM · #62
Well, it's your turn, anyway. *I* was part of the last one... Power to the People! Make love, not war! War is not healthy for children and other living things. We apparently accomplished ONE thing, anyway: long hair's acceptable everywhere now :-(
 08/27/2015 01:36:10 PM · #63
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Luciemac:


Very strange indeed.


What's strange is how you think this somehow makes a point that is of use.


Strange that you can't see that it's the only point that really counts.


So, we get to the bones of your argument. Remind me how that whole gun control thing is working out for you in France. I seem to recall several mass shootings there recently. In fact, the most recent, if I recall correctly, was stopped by a group of Americans.

Furthermore, are you really so blind as to think that there is ANY possibility of removing access to firearms in this country? About the only thing that's realistic is removing them from those who aren't really a public threat in the first place. (And yes, I do agree that such a ban would prevent many accidental deaths, suicides, and domestic homicides, I just don't think the trade is worth it)

Message edited by author 2015-08-27 13:40:13.
 08/27/2015 01:38:30 PM · #64
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, it's your turn, anyway. *I* was part of the last one... Power to the People! Make love, not war! War is not healthy for children and other living things. We apparently accomplished ONE thing, anyway: long hair's acceptable everywhere now :-(


Quite exactly right - no offense, but your generation tried their asses off, and what did you really get for it? I do owe you thanks for the long hair thing though. ;-)

It's just not worth fighting this stuff, the government will do as it pleases for the most part, and has demonstrated that they really don't give a damn what the people want, or even what's good for the people. Sadly, I think it's screwed up to the point that there isn't an obvious solution to anything anymore.
 08/27/2015 01:45:51 PM · #65
Originally posted by Cory:
if I recall correctly, was stopped by a group of Americans.


and yet they did it without guns of their own as well!

Message edited by author 2015-08-27 13:46:56.
 08/27/2015 01:47:37 PM · #66
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Luciemac:


Very strange indeed.


What's strange is how you think this somehow makes a point that is of use.


Strange that you can't see that it's the only point that really counts.


So, we get to the bones of your argument. Remind me how that whole no guns thing is working out for you in France. I seem to recall several mass shootings there recently. In fact, the most recent, if I recall correctly, was stopped by a group of Americans.

Furthermore, are you really so blind as to think that there is ANY possibility of removing access to firearms in this country? About the only thing that's realistic is removing them from those who aren't really a public threat in the first place. (And yes, I do agree that such a ban would prevent many accidental deaths, suicides, and domestic homicides, I just don't think the trade is worth it)


Strange over here we were told it was stopped first by a French guy who noticed something wasn't right in the toilet and confronted the terrorist, then an English guy, then two heroic Americans, the French guy wanted to stay anonymous for obvious reasons, do you think if everyone of them were carrying a gun there wouldn't be more deaths ? Humans over here are probably just as violent as humans over there, however you do stand a better chance of not being killed here by a gun here than over there. Why aren't people in the streets here asking for a French version of the second amendment ?
 08/27/2015 02:09:03 PM · #67
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
War is not healthy for children and other living things.

(based on)

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
We apparently accomplished ONE thing, anyway: long hair's acceptable everywhere now :-( 

Almost cut my hair            

It happened just the other day

It was getting kinda long

I could have said it was in my way

But I didn't, and I wonder why

Guess I felt like letting my freak-flag fly

And I feel like I owe it

To someone

ΓΆ€” David Crosby
 08/27/2015 02:41:59 PM · #68
Originally posted by jagar:
Why aren't people in the streets here asking for a French version of the second amendment ?


Possibly because you've become acclimated to domination over the last century or so? Frog in a pot of boiling water seems to be the most appropriate anecdote.
 08/27/2015 03:51:29 PM · #69
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Why aren't people in the streets here asking for a French version of the second amendment ?


Possibly because you've become acclimated to domination over the last century or so? Frog in a pot of boiling water seems to be the most appropriate anecdote.


What domination? and what have culinary particularities got to do with anything ?
 08/27/2015 05:10:47 PM · #70
"If only the US worked like Canada... We tried your heathcare thingy too - certainly didn't work out like Canada's has."

Cory, please explain how our "healthcare thingy" is the same as Canada's and why it doesn't work the same. Be every specific and provide credible sources to back this up.

"The ONLY thing this convinces me of is that I'm right to worry that at least a significant portion of the folks who are for gun control are in fact in favor of bans, and are just using gun control as a sneaky way to start that process."

Cory, please provide ANY credible evidence to show that this little squiggle is something more than your paranoia working overtime. While you're at it, name ONE person (with references) who has lost their guns due to gun control. Provide proof of same.

"Furthermore, are you really so blind as to think that there is ANY possibility of removing access to firearms in this country? About the only thing that's realistic is removing them from those who aren't really a public threat in the first place."

Who would those persons be who aren't "really a public threat", exactly.....? Be specific.

"if I recall correctly, was stopped by a group of Americans."

A group of Americans WITHOUT GUNS.

"Possibly because you've become acclimated to domination over the last century or so?"

Domination? Really? Please explain what you mean and include credible sources to back up your assertion.

Cory, for your info: (Sources available on request.)

Firearm-related deaths per 100,000/per year
France 3.01 Total (2009) 0.22 Homocides 2.33 Suicides 0.05 Unintentional 0.41 Undetermined

Guns in France[21]

United States 10.64 Total (2013) 3.55 Homocides 6.70 Suicides (2013) 0.16 Unintentional 0.09 Undetermined
Guns in United States[68]



"we have thing [sic] thing called the US government, which seems to be full of idiots, corruption and ineptitude..."

Cory, you are wrong on healthcare, gun death comparisons, "domination" over France, the situation where Americans saved everyone's ass withOUT guns.....and, so on. Maybe the US government has more on the ball than you do? Your lack of knowledge is jaw-dropping and embarrassing. Please do some homework and get back to us.

And, Cory will be exiting stage left, probably in a snit.
 08/27/2015 05:16:55 PM · #71
Originally posted by Luciemac:
{vomit}


Remember, back in that thread where you displayed your obsession with male anatomical measurements? I warned you that I'd ignore you if you continued to behave like a total jackass, and you chose to test me. Consider this your only reminder, you might as well not bother trying to engage me.

ETA: The sheer amount of stupid with this one is amazing. See post above, and below, for examples.

If anyone wants answers to her questions, feel free to repost them as your own, I'll be happy to respond, although, I'd recommend nixing the ones that are obviously stupid.

Message edited by author 2015-08-27 17:34:32.
 08/27/2015 05:19:02 PM · #72
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Why aren't people in the streets here asking for a French version of the second amendment ?


Possibly because you've become acclimated to domination over the last century or so? Frog in a pot of boiling water seems to be the most appropriate anecdote.


What domination? and what have culinary particularities got to do with anything ?


You poor bastards have been kicked around more than a stray dog over the last century or so, I honestly shudder when I think of the damage that was allowed to be done to all those fine vineyards and old chateaus. And of course, you were just getting caught up in someone else's violence, really a shame, but I could see where it might make a population more desirous of peace at any cost.

As for the frog thing, it's not about food ya goof - haven't you ever heard that old anecdote about a frog in boiling water?

Originally posted by Wikipedia:
The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to threats that occur gradually, such as creeping state surveillance.


Message edited by author 2015-08-27 17:20:16.
 08/27/2015 05:27:12 PM · #73
Remember, back in that threat where you displayed your obsession with male anatomical measurements? I warned you that I'd ignore you if you continued to behave like a total jackass, and you chose to test me. Consider this your only reminder, you might as well not bother trying to engage me.

Which part of my asking you to prove your assertions is behaving "like a total jackass"? Can you NOT support them? What's the problem?

I "chose to test you"?? Yes, I sure did, and you're failing miserably! LOL!!

"Consider this your only reminder, you might as well not bother trying to engage me."

A few minutes ago I said that you would be "exiting stage left".....which is exactly what you're doing. And, in a snit, too. :-D Where's your self-respect, Dude?
08/28/2015 01:39:13 AM · #74
Today's news menu, red herring a la Cory: Gun control might not have stopped the shooter.
 08/28/2015 02:23:04 AM · #75
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by jagar:
Why aren't people in the streets here asking for a French version of the second amendment ?


Possibly because you've become acclimated to domination over the last century or so? Frog in a pot of boiling water seems to be the most appropriate anecdote.


What domination? and what have culinary particularities got to do with anything ?


You poor bastards have been kicked around more than a stray dog over the last century or so, I honestly shudder when I think of the damage that was allowed to be done to all those fine vineyards and old chateaus. And of course, you were just getting caught up in someone else's violence, really a shame, but I could see where it might make a population more desirous of peace at any cost.

As for the frog thing, it's not about food ya goof - haven't you ever heard that old anecdote about a frog in boiling water?

Originally posted by Wikipedia:
The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to threats that occur gradually, such as creeping state surveillance.


Let's get this straight, the reason that France and most of the modern world has implemented strict gun control and nobody in those countries is asking for a change is because they are poor bastards that have been kicked about far too much in the past and are now desirous of peace at any cost, the fact that the same countries have a far lower rate of gun violence has nothing to do with it at all, yeah right.

OMG, nothing can be changed in such an ignorant mind.
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