| Author | Thread |
|
|
07/14/2015 02:08:12 PM · #101 |
Inching back to the essence of Adam's original post - LEGAL guns thwarted an attempted crime - here is a story out of Kansas about a customer at a sporting goods store disrupting a bold theft of firearms. Best line of the whole story is "...mine is loaded, just drop the gun..."
Mine Is Loaded
Kansas is now one of seven states to allow open carry. While I don't have a problem with the open carry, I have a huge problem with the fact that there is no licensing or permitting required to strap a gun to one's leg. But that fact is a digression from the example above supporting Adam's initial post: "If they had not been carrying a gun {legally} then there might have been 2 good people that became fatalities instead of 1 bad person."
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 02:26:17 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by Zita:
Inching back to the essence of Adam's original post - LEGAL guns thwarted an attempted crime - here is a story out of Kansas about a customer at a sporting goods store disrupting a bold theft of firearms. Best line of the whole story is "...mine is loaded, just drop the gun..."
Mine Is Loaded
Kansas is now one of seven states to allow open carry. While I don't have a problem with the open carry, I have a huge problem with the fact that there is no licensing or permitting required to strap a gun to one's leg. But that fact is a digression from the example above supporting Adam's initial post: "If they had not been carrying a gun {legally} then there might have been 2 good people that became fatalities instead of 1 bad person." |
And then there is on occasion the other side of the fence to look at:
Accidental deaths
I am most definitely not an advocate for gun controls as some see them, but surely there has to be some mechanism that can be implemented to minimize some of the carnage.
Ray
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 02:35:03 PM · #103 |
"there has to be some mechanism that can be implemented to minimize some of the carnage. "
There won't be as long as the NRA is calling the shots (no pun intended). But, if anyone can post stats from credible, unbiased sources showing that there are more legitimate gun deaths than accidents, murders and suicides, I will shut up and let you guys hug your guns in your wet dreams. There will NOT be stats found showing guns prevent more crime than not.......but, hey. If you can find them (remember, CREDIBLE sources), I will eat your gun barrel. |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 02:45:22 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
"there has to be some mechanism that can be implemented to minimize some of the carnage. "
There won't be as long as the NRA is calling the shots (no pun intended). But, if anyone can post stats from credible, unbiased sources showing that there are more legitimate gun deaths than accidents, murders and suicides, I will shut up and let you guys hug your guns in your wet dreams. There will NOT be stats found showing guns prevent more crime than not.......but, hey. If you can find them (remember, CREDIBLE sources), I will eat your gun barrel. |
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream....however now most murders do make it to the FBI lists. I know that not all the legitimate ones get reported because about a year ago there was a break in down the street from me. The guy that lived there shot and killed the 2 intruders. It never made the papers, the local news, or the national news.
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 03:08:48 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream... |
Yes, it would be handy if it was legal to collect information about all gun deaths, and if reporting killings by police was mandatory rather than voluntary ... |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 03:25:25 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream....however now most murders do make it to the FBI lists. I know that not all the legitimate ones get reported because about a year ago there was a break in down the street from me. The guy that lived there shot and killed the 2 intruders. It never made the papers, the local news, or the national news. |
why would you want it to besides to further your position in the pro-gun debate?
surely the guy didn't need a media swarm in the aftermath of killing two people, justified or not, unless of course he wanted to relish in his bravado. |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 03:25:49 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream... |
Yes, it would be handy if it was legal to collect information about all gun deaths, and if reporting killings by police was mandatory rather than voluntary ... |
Couldn't agree more on this point. Any time someone, or some group, tries to suppress information it worries me and makes me angry. I guess that's largely because then we have to have stupid debates like this on the basis of anecdotal 'evidence' and personal opinion, which sucks.
Message edited by author 2015-07-14 15:26:33. |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 04:02:31 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream....however now most murders do make it to the FBI lists. I know that not all the legitimate ones get reported because about a year ago there was a break in down the street from me. The guy that lived there shot and killed the 2 intruders. It never made the papers, the local news, or the national news. |
why would you want it to besides to further your position in the pro-gun debate?
surely the guy didn't need a media swarm in the aftermath of killing two people, justified or not, unless of course he wanted to relish in his bravado. |
You missed my point..... If an individual is killed...for any reason (this is by murder, accident, or legitimate) then there should be a tally.....no names involved necessarily. It doesn't have to make the media but I should be able to say oh well there were 200 deaths by firearms that were accidental vs 300 that were justified vs 250 that were murders in 2014. (completely made up numbers by the way)
ETA they should do the same for knives and other weapons as well
Message edited by author 2015-07-14 16:03:48.
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 05:50:37 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
And as to hitting a nerve, you bet. I don't hunt,but your characterization of hunters and their mindset was abhorrent. I live in an area where a number of my friends do, and I've sat at their tables and enjoyed many a meal from the game they've shot. Just because hunting doesn't suit your narrow vision of th world is no cause to denigrate hunters as a whole. |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Abhorrent? Because I believe that killing another living being for fun isn't a noble thing for a supposedly civilized human being to do? At least one of you has admitted it. Instead, you're defensive as hell....which is the general reaction when a man is verbally stripped of his manhood in a public forum. |
You're extrapolating & projecting your impression of killing for fun onto people you don't even know. Yes, people *DO* hunt for sport, and enjoy doing so, but all the ones that I know who do also eat what they kill, some supplementing their freezers with great success. I'm not being defensive......your ignorance and self-righteousness just happen to be annoying. As to having my manhood stripped, not hardly. In order for that to happen, you'd have to have a lot more credibility than what you're exhibiting here. The only person here making a fool of themself in a public forum would be you.
Originally posted by Luciemac:
I have a nephew who gleefully posts photos of himself and his 8-yr-old son to his Facebook page, grinning like a fool over the bloody carcass of some creature who never knew they were coming and wouldn't have hurt them if it had. Yet, said nephew becomes absolutely INFURIATED (much like some of you) at the suggestion he kills for fun.
"How DARE you, you Obama Lover!! I hunt to feed my family!! I have terrible emotional stress and sadness whenever I kill a deer!!" Yet, nephew, you can't wait to post your big smiley face drooling over a fresh bloody kill to show the world how powerful, clever and courageous you are.
Pretty disgustingly lacking in integrity, wouldn't you say? |
It sounds to me like you want to justify your nephew's rather inappropriate behavior by painting the whole gender with your brush of disdain.
And again your "Poor defenseless animal" thing rears its ugly head. I doubt that anyone here would dispute that killing a deer with a high powered rifle and a scope, especially those of us who know how eternally dim of brain they are, is any gauge of our masculinity. But I'm fairly sure you don't have any idea what it's like to track a deer in its own environment, nor what a PITA it is if you screw up and only wound an animal only to have it drag itself four miles deeper into the mountains so you have to go after it. Which any decent and self-respecting hunter will do. They're heavy to drag out of the woods, and you still have to pay people to dress the meat, tan the hide, and mount the head should you be of that persuasion. If you're going to be any kind of a successful hunter there's more to it than sitting in a blind and shooting a deer that wanders by. Are there folks that do that? Sure. But not all hunters are lazy, loud-mouthed, beer-swilling wildlife murderers. And as I stated before, having been hit by the damn things because I drive on rural roads, I'm happy to have the herds culled somewhat. And again, having quite a few farmers I include in my circle of friends, they have quite a few choice words for the animals relative to crop damage. Maybe you should actually take into consideration some of the feedback you're getting.
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 06:14:51 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Unfortunately the data for legitimate gun deaths vs accidents is not arranged like that. 1st of all, a lot of "legitimate" deaths never get brought up in the main stream... |
Yes, it would be handy if it was legal to collect information about all gun deaths, and if reporting killings by police was mandatory rather than voluntary ... |
I didn't know that... your police don't have to report instances where they killed someone.
They sure do in this country... not only deaths by shootings...all deaths and most injuries. Then there is an independent body that looks at the facts and renders a decision as to whether or not the actions of the police were justifiable.
Wonders never cease.
Ray |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 06:19:59 PM · #111 |
| When I was in the second grade (near Monterey, California) I remember being taken to an archery range by a friend of my parents, where he would practice his technique before hunting wild boar with a bow and arrow -- that's about as even-steven a hunter vs. prey match-up as you'd want to have ... |
|
|
|
07/14/2015 06:34:27 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
When I was in the second grade (near Monterey, California) I remember being taken to an archery range by a friend of my parents, where he would practice his technique before hunting wild boar with a bow and arrow -- that's about as even-steven a hunter vs. prey match-up as you'd want to have ... |
Uh.....not even close. You miss, it's ugly. That boar would slice you to ribbons in seconds.
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 06:37:06 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Jeb, I didn't say I was against hunting, I was just pointing out that deer populations may be so out of whack because of human intervention in wiping out natural predators. |
Yah.....I knew that. We humans have destroyed many a habitat and forced countless animals to extinction. Not an issue I dispute at all. Deer population *IS* out of whack because of that AND our encroaching on their habitat.
|
|
|
|
07/14/2015 06:44:20 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
When I was in the second grade (near Monterey, California) I remember being taken to an archery range by a friend of my parents, where he would practice his technique before hunting wild boar with a bow and arrow -- that's about as even-steven a hunter vs. prey match-up as you'd want to have ... |
Uh.....not even close. You miss, it's ugly. That boar would slice you to ribbons in seconds. |
That's pretty much what I meant ... a good archer should be able to get off two shots before being disemboweled ... :-( |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 08:25:00 AM · #115 |
I have never gotten into bow hunting.... Now I have done black powder. You only have 1 shot. If you miss you miss.
|
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:00:10 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Think I hit a nerve? wow. Thanks, guys! :-D |
Yeah, I have a bad habit of seeking out dumb arguments online and dismantling them. Your post was like crack to me. ;) |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:00:10 PM · #117 |
This is rare coming out of Hollywood these days. Actress Kelly Carlson about owning a firearm.
I will bring attention to this paragraph.
"Carlson understands why a person may "fear firearms," but she explains "it's crucial for people to look at it from a logical standpoint and take the emotions out of it because one needs to have that option to save them."
The actress believes she has the perfect platform to advocate for firearm use and safety not only because of her celebrity, but also because she has a family member who was murdered by firearm."
|
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:08:24 PM · #118 |
To be clear, I'm here because of things like "stripping masculinity", "harmless animals", and "guns are more important to them than the welfare of their own families".
Hyperbole is such easy pickings.
Also, it's fun for this gay, liberal, Obama lover to side with the conservatives on occasion, if only to blow their minds.
|
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:28:12 PM · #119 |
when it comes to the gun debate, we need to stop looking at individual instances of pros and cons and do what is best for society as a whole. If many more people are dying because of guns instead of being saved by them, we need a policy change.
|
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:38:05 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Think I hit a nerve? wow. Thanks, guys! :-D |
Yeah, I have a bad habit of seeking out dumb arguments online and dismantling them. Your post was like crack to me. ;) |
ROFL. R'Amen. :-) |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:40:16 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by Mike:
when it comes to the gun debate, we need to stop looking at individual instances of pros and cons and do what is best for society as a whole. If many more people are dying because of guns instead of being saved by them, we need a policy change. |
Why? Can you please explain what ethical system you've made this decision on?
I know that there are some who would say "Give me freedom, or give me death" - so at what point did you decide that life was more important than freedom? |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:50:33 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
when it comes to the gun debate, we need to stop looking at individual instances of pros and cons and do what is best for society as a whole. If many more people are dying because of guns instead of being saved by them, we need a policy change. |
Why? Can you please explain what ethical system you've made this decision on? |
The concept of having a society rather than the law of the jungle, where it's everyone for themselves and those with the biggest muscles (or most guns in this case) win ...
Living in a society requires the limitation of personal freedom to benefit the whole. Where to draw the line depends on many factors. Ask yourself whether we'd be having these discussions at all if the "arms" available were muzzle-loading flintlocks rather than Saturday-night specials, AK-47s and RPG launchers ...
And ask yourself, really, how many people would choose death over living in a totalitarian society -- AFAIK there are no mass suicides occurring in North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia ... Patrick Henry's quote makes for a good sound bite but I doubt it reflects the true sentiment of the Earth's population as a whole ... |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 12:55:59 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
when it comes to the gun debate, we need to stop looking at individual instances of pros and cons and do what is best for society as a whole. If many more people are dying because of guns instead of being saved by them, we need a policy change. |
Why? Can you please explain what ethical system you've made this decision on?
I know that there are some who would say "Give me freedom, or give me death" - so at what point did you decide that life was more important than freedom? |
i fail to see how gun ownership correlates to freedom.
Message edited by author 2015-07-15 12:56:08. |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 01:07:23 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by Mike:
i fail to see how gun ownership correlates to freedom. |
Can you see how restricting gun ownership correlates to a loss of freedom? |
|
|
|
07/15/2015 01:11:50 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by Mike:
when it comes to the gun debate, we need to stop looking at individual instances of pros and cons and do what is best for society as a whole. If many more people are dying because of guns instead of being saved by them, we need a policy change. |
Originally posted by Cory:
Why? Can you please explain what ethical system you've made this decision on?
I know that there are some who would say "Give me freedom, or give me death" - so at what point did you decide that life was more important than freedom? |
Originally posted by Mike:
i fail to see how gun ownership correlates to freedom. |
I'd like to hear that connection, too.
I honestly don't understand why so many gun owers resist any form of structure and regulation when it so much promotes accountability.
I would be happy to have all my firearms duly registered. I am responsible, and accountable, for them.
I only wish there was a mandatory licensing/training/safety course prior to ownership.
|
|
