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07/10/2015 02:59:59 PM · #51 |
To all those who think MORE regulation is the answer, let me ask you this: If we cannot even successfully enforce existing regulations and laws, what's the point of adding more?
Dylann Roof passed a background check because someone screwed up. |
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07/10/2015 03:17:10 PM · #52 |
It's not so much "adding more" as "adding" them where they don't currently exist and, as you point out, making it so they work.
However, remember that restrictions on information helpful in this regard are largely due to NRA lobbying, which seems intent on obstructing any information-gathering and analysis, not because of any concern by the general public.
Oh, and is it because someone "screwed up" or because they didn't take this part of the job seriously, like the gun shop employee we discussed earlier?
Message edited by author 2015-07-10 15:18:51. |
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07/10/2015 03:25:33 PM · #53 |
This should show that stricter gun laws don't necessarily work
drive by shooting in germany
wikapedia on german gun laws
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07/10/2015 04:04:09 PM · #54 |
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07/10/2015 04:04:57 PM · #55 |
| I could really fill up these threads with links to that website... |
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07/10/2015 04:10:29 PM · #56 |
:-) Thanks, giantmike! I would urge gun enthusiasts to provide credible sources which show that there are more legitimate guns deaths than there are accidents, murders and suicides. |
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07/10/2015 04:19:12 PM · #57 |
I was just making the point that Germany has extremely strict gun laws....however, a CRIMINAL decided not to follow the government rules and drive down the street shooting people.
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07/10/2015 04:32:31 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I was just making the point that Germany has extremely strict gun laws....however, a CRIMINAL decided not to follow the government rules and drive down the street shooting people. |
Right, but you don't have nearly as many incidents of "crazy" people shooting up schools, theaters and churches ... setting a threshold of 100% effectiveness will doom any rule, and requiring such is patently obstructive in the real world. |
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07/10/2015 04:54:22 PM · #59 |
our main problem is society. The fed are trying to raise the kids not the parents. And the parents are letting them.
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07/10/2015 05:12:33 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I was just making the point that Germany has extremely strict gun laws....however, a CRIMINAL decided not to follow the government rules and drive down the street shooting people. |
Yeah... A criminal, and that wasn't even a mass shooting (defined as four more more). We have dozens of shootings like that on a daily basis, so your lone example is compelling evidence that stricter gun laws DO reduce these events. |
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07/10/2015 05:42:25 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Cory:
To all those who think MORE regulation is the answer, let me ask you this: If we cannot even successfully enforce existing regulations and laws, what's the point of adding more? |
I think that many of us would think that it would be a good idea to enforce the laws on the books right now. Sadly that is not possible, not just because of human falibility, but by legislative design.
How many people know that the ATF, the agency responsible for enforcing existing gun laws was without a permanent director for six years, yes really for 6 friggin'years because Obama's candidate was never allowed to be voted on? How many know that filing false paperwork in a gun transaction was recently lowered from a felony to a misdemeanor? That it is illegal for the feds (the same folks who are allowed to keep computer records of every phone call you make) are not allowed to keep records of weapon transactions in any form but paper? The list goes on and on. NY times article if you like Legal Curbs Said to Hamper A.T.F. in Gun Inquiries No other federal agency is so underfunded or limited from doing it job. If we ran the IRS like this no one would have to pay their taxes.
The fact that existing gun laws are not enforced is a political strategy, not a failure of ability.
We need new laws on guns the same way we need new laws of traffic violations; things change and the laws have to keep up to try to balance public safety and individual rights, be those new laws trying to cut down on texting while driving, or building an untracable AK47 out of kit parts. By the way, texting while driving is now illegal most everywhere, but there will not be a ban on AK47 kits because.....well we already have too many laws, right?
Message edited by author 2015-07-10 19:13:10. |
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07/10/2015 05:54:52 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
:-) Thanks, giantmike! I would urge gun enthusiasts to provide credible sources which show that there are more legitimate guns deaths than there are accidents, murders and suicides. |
I don't think I would be the folks you were asking, but I do count myself as a gun enthusiast in that I enjoy shooting to the point where I have targets with good clusters that I keep in my house that I am more likely to show off than my photography. However no gun enthusiast will show that there are more justifiable homicides than accidents, murders and suicides, because no such numbers exist.
In 2012 according to FBI statistics there were 259 justifiable homicides ( that number includes Police killing in the line of duty, and as Ferguson showed us, "Justifiable" is quite a broad category which include Florida's "stand your ground" law. Trayvon Martin is counted as one of those 259 justifiable killings in 2012.) In the same year, 8,342 criminal homicides using guns, 20,666 suicides with guns, and 548 fatal unintentional shootings, according to the FBI’s Supplemental Homicide Report. The ratio for 2012, per the Violence Policy Center, was one justifiable killing for every 32 murders, suicides or accidental deaths (the ratio increases to 38-1 over the five-year period ending in 2012). That’s a heavy price to pay.
Oh, and match those 259 justifiable homicides with the theft of about 232,000 guns each year, about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That’s a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put in the hands of criminals.
Guns are a favorite target of thieves because they sell well on the black market when compared to cameras or computers or jewelry. I find it ironic that people keep guns to keep their homes safe from thieves, but they end up making sure that every thief has ready access to guns. Once they steal a gun, they can shoot their victims if they are confronted. The end result of those gun owning homeowners who can't be bothered to lock up their guns in a decent safe when they go out, is that far from being safer, we are all in much more danger.
Message edited by author 2015-07-10 22:49:15. |
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07/11/2015 02:10:30 PM · #63 |
Gun-shaped iPhone Case "Is A Terrible" Idea" ... (NY Times article)
Originally posted by Linked Article:
“What moron came up with this idea?” wrote another reviewer. “We live in a society where every time there is an incident involving police, people immediately whip out their cell phones to record it.
“Can you imagine the reaction of police in the middle of a tense situation seeing someone pull this device out?” |
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07/11/2015 06:21:47 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Gun-shaped iPhone Case "Is A Terrible" Idea" ... (NY Times article)
Originally posted by Linked Article:
“What moron came up with this idea?” wrote another reviewer. “We live in a society where every time there is an incident involving police, people immediately whip out their cell phones to record it.
“Can you imagine the reaction of police in the middle of a tense situation seeing someone pull this device out?” |
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Hey! There's nothing funny, cute, or even remotely intelligent to my mind about someone needing to own a gun. Target shooting is boring, hunting animals is cowardly, and fearing your neighbors is paranoiac. But, it makes all the sense in the world that one of those persons (referenced above) might choose to whip out a cell phone case that looks like a gun. That's just how they roll. Doh. |
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07/11/2015 09:02:32 PM · #65 |
| "Hunting animals is cowardly"? Out of curiosity, how to you rank "buying amputated limbs of animals in shrink-wrapped plastic"? |
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07/11/2015 10:57:49 PM · #66 |
I have no idea where you live, how old you are or what your financial situation is, but that broad brush you just used most certainly did not do you any favours.
I grew up in an environment where if my father (a trapper by the way) would have seen his family starve were it not for the food that was provided through fishing,hunting and gardening. He taught all of his children how to fend for themselves and how to subsist should they ever find themselves stranded in the wilderness. That man was definitely no coward.
Shooting is boring you say. I was on the shooting range on a regular basis during my 30 years in law enforcement, as were my brothers who served in the USA USMC. It really is comforting to know that you have the knowledge and ability to use a firearm when confronted by someone who is intent on killing you. I am certain that if you asked any serving or retired servicement if they consider target practice as boring and you would received a definite "Hell no"
There are instances where one might very well be justified in fearing their neighbours and there is nothing wrong with taking precautionary measures when one considers their immediate environment at risk.
Lastly, as was so well articulated by my learned friend  Bear_Music just how do you differentiate between the killing of an animal by an individual using a firearm, and the methods used by those who stock the coolers and freezers in your supermarket.
You might want to re-consider your stance in this perspective as it is seriously flawed.
Ray |
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07/11/2015 10:57:49 PM · #67 |
... in my exuberance I posted this twice.
Ray
Message edited by author 2015-07-11 22:58:50. |
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07/11/2015 11:39:45 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Linked Article:
“What moron came up with this idea?” |
Someone who likes shooting selfies? |
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07/12/2015 07:47:54 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"Hunting animals is cowardly"? Out of curiosity, how to you rank "buying amputated limbs of animals in shrink-wrapped plastic"? |
Hunting is no longer done because one needs food. It's a sport. For fun. It cannot in anyway be compared to "amputated limbs in shrink wrap".
Why is hunting cowardly? A deer hunter dresses in camo to be harder to see. He climbs onto a deer stand...to be harder to see. With him, he has his big, powerful deer rifle with which to blow away....for fun.....an animal which is no threat, completely unaware, in ITS home....not yours....all so that you can be back-slapped and beer-hoisted by other cowardly animal killers who all think you did something very courageous and skillful. Which maybe could have been said for you had you chased down the deer, wrestled it with your bare hands, and managed to bash its head in with a rock. THAT would have been an accomplishment.
But, what's most telling is how defensive you guys are! I must have really nailed it. :-) |
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07/12/2015 10:37:28 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"Hunting animals is cowardly"? Out of curiosity, how to you rank "buying amputated limbs of animals in shrink-wrapped plastic"? |
Hunting is no longer done because one needs food. It's a sport. For fun. It cannot in anyway be compared to "amputated limbs in shrink wrap".
Why is hunting cowardly? A deer hunter dresses in camo to be harder to see. He climbs onto a deer stand...to be harder to see. With him, he has his big, powerful deer rifle with which to blow away....for fun.....an animal which is no threat, completely unaware, in ITS home....not yours....all so that you can be back-slapped and beer-hoisted by other cowardly animal killers who all think you did something very courageous and skillful. Which maybe could have been said for you had you chased down the deer, wrestled it with your bare hands, and managed to bash its head in with a rock. THAT would have been an accomplishment.
But, what's most telling is how defensive you guys are! I must have really nailed it. :-) |
Really now... I happen to know oodles of people who hunt for food. Not everyone lives in your world, some still deal with the harsh realities of life.
We have so many wild critters in these parts that in the winter I have deer in my back yard feasting on my hedges. They are so plentiful that you can see the bodies of the unfortunate ones that were struck by vehicles along our highways.
Out of curiosity, with regards to the various meats you do eat, were they the subject of the activities you allude to or were they simply warehoused, executed and then placed in a nice package for your consumption.
Defensive you say, I can't speak for others but I can assure you that your comments have no bearing whatsoever on me since I have not gone hunting for quite some time now.... a really good income, coupled with age and physical handicaps took care of that for me.
Sadly, you conveniently failed to address the comments I made earlier and totally sidestepped the comments made by Bear_Music
The one thing in life that I learned many years ago is that reality is not the same for everyone... something that you don't seem to grasp.
Ray |
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07/12/2015 10:44:48 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"Hunting animals is cowardly"? Out of curiosity, how to you rank "buying amputated limbs of animals in shrink-wrapped plastic"? |
Hunting is no longer done because one needs food. It's a sport. For fun. It cannot in anyway be compared to "amputated limbs in shrink wrap".
Why is hunting cowardly? A deer hunter dresses in camo to be harder to see. He climbs onto a deer stand...to be harder to see. With him, he has his big, powerful deer rifle with which to blow away....for fun.....an animal which is no threat, completely unaware, in ITS home....not yours....all so that you can be back-slapped and beer-hoisted by other cowardly animal killers who all think you did something very courageous and skillful. Which maybe could have been said for you had you chased down the deer, wrestled it with your bare hands, and managed to bash its head in with a rock. THAT would have been an accomplishment.
But, what's most telling is how defensive you guys are! I must have really nailed it. :-) |
Sometimes I've been known to do it with a bow too. And don't forget me rubbing deer piss on myself to stink less.. Although, it's not just for fun, I like the meat at least as much as the hunting. Also, we tend to drink whiskey. If you don't think it's skillful, I invite you to give it a shot. ;-) (mind you, I also know how to knapp my own arrowheads from stone, and build my own atalatl, although I've never actually killed anything with one)
Also, "cheating" with a rifle is really nice. Meat still tastes fine.
Message edited by author 2015-07-12 10:49:09. |
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07/12/2015 11:08:49 AM · #72 |
| We have lots of deer here and I walk in the woods everyday, could someone explaine to me the best way to find ready available deer piss, I mean enough to smear myself in like Cory ? |
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07/12/2015 11:44:44 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by jagar:
We have lots of deer here and I walk in the woods everyday, could someone explaine to me the best way to find ready available deer piss, I mean enough to smear myself in like Cory ? |
Go to a gun shop and buy a bottle? |
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07/12/2015 11:55:11 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by jagar:
We have lots of deer here and I walk in the woods everyday, could someone explaine to me the best way to find ready available deer piss, I mean enough to smear myself in like Cory ? |
Go to a gun shop and buy a bottle? |
In the gun shops over here they only sell Le Male by Jean Paul Gaultier. |
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07/12/2015 01:15:05 PM · #75 |
"The one thing in life that I learned many years ago is that reality is not the same for everyone... something that you don't seem to grasp."
I couldn't agree more and you're getting my version of reality. As far as Bear_Music's comment about shrink-wrapped limbs: I was raised eating shrink-wrapped meat except when I was pregnant and craved fresh-caught bluegill from the pond behind my Alabama trailer park. My fun-loving fisherman hubby was pleased to oblige. Store-bought meat was my growing up experience, though.
Hunters always say they're hunting for meat rather than killing for fun. For some reason, they make a big to-do over "thinning the herd" or "fresh meat for the fam", rather than say the REAL truth, which is that it's fun.
Nobody believes you get up in the morning dreading having to go out and shoot meat for your family....unless your car is broken down and you have to hike 1/2 mile to the grocery store in the rain.
So, I'm no fan of shrink-wrapped meat and the conditions under which those animals were raised and processed. I'm sure shooting them in the woods is probably far less traumatic, except when you miss and they run off and die suffering horrible deaths because you either can't find them or can't catch them. How does that feel when it happens? Or, do you never fail to kill them with one shot?
It's gotta be hard to admit that you enjoy the thrill of killing another living being, even though in our culture, it's condoned and even encouraged. But, admitting it would at least be honest.
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