|
| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/28/2014 12:32:16 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Mike:
Race is just one, not the only, of many factor I apply to judging someone not knowing them personally. |
Not singling you out personally (definitely not, this is a pervasive thing) but THAT is exactly what has to change across the board. Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people. |
I think it's very difficult and everybody processes the visual and other cues they get from a person they encounter. If the person doing the processing has a gun and a badge then we get a case like Brown's and, I have to slightly disagree with heavyj here, Martin's. The fact that self-defense laws allow you to kill someone and not be found guilty of a crime is not to say that the precipitating action and reaction was not racially motivated. In the Martin case there were a number of different possible outcomes and both protagonists made choices that led to tragedy and those choices were, to some degree, based on race I believe. |
Ok, I have only one question here. What do you make of the statistics that indicate that far more blacks are killed by blacks than by other races? What do you perceive to be behind the stats that indicate that the crime rate among African Americans is extraordinarily high? I accept that some of that may be due to enforcement bias, but surely there is a hell of a lot more going on here, and the fact remains that the odds of a random person attacking you do statistically increase when the random person is black.
Again, I'm not saying that this is in any way the full picture, but it's certainly on my mind when I'm in a predominately black area, especially considering that I'm quite pale and the simple reality is that black folks seem to be at least as racist (if not more so) than white people.
*shrug* Just my thoughts and observations, but at some point I have to wonder if judging others based on statistical evidence is actually racism, or even if it's wrong. We cannot, in today's world where we contact so many people each day, actually judge each person on their individual merits and personality, if only because there isn't enough time to be able to do so. This leaves us in a position where we have to make a choice, either follow the guidance that can be gleaned from stereotypes and statistics, or ignore that and treat everyone equally. I'm not sure that either approach isn't without merit, and I'm pretty certain that both have their downsides as well. So, what's a fellow to do?
I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts on the matter Ray, as I suspect your perspective on this is quite different from my own. Robert, you too. I'd like to hear how you feel this should be handled, given that "Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people." - I realize I'm not taking the party line here, but I see a pretty big gap in the 'ignore race no matter what' argument.
Of course, this does follow through to the guy in the suit vs. the guy in gangsta clothing - clearly the man in the suit is MUCH less likely to cause problems no matter WHAT race or culture he is.
And of course, that's the other BIG thing, culture matters more than race, WAY more, however, certain cultures do seem to follow racial biases of their own.
I mean really, the whole thing is a huge deal with no clear answer, but I cannot see the wisdom in ignoring information which is available to us upon which we can more successfully judge the potential outcomes of an interaction. I think using all the information we can possibly gather is the best idea, regardless of the popularity of said methodology. Interestingly, I think I'd like to be swayed from this position, as clearly it's not a particularly popular position to hold today.
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 12:57:29. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 12:55:00 PM · #27 |
Cory, its what i keep saying, cultural perception, its not that they are black, its that being black bears negative connotation.
what ever they are doing to fix it, if anything, isn't working.
white people make up the majority of this country population yet commit the least amount of crime. i'm fairly confidant that even though racism still exists, that huge sample size is indicative of another problem.
white people frown upon other white people who cant and wont behave, we dont tolerate it.
do black people frown upon other blacks who can't behave?
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 12:59:28 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Ok, I have only one question here. What do you make of the statistics that indicate that far more blacks are killed by blacks than by other races? What do you perceive to be behind the stats that indicate that the crime rate among African Americans is extraordinarily high? |
Given that there continues to be discriination in employment opportunities, the most lucrative enterprise for a young black entrepreneur to undertake involves trade is products which have been arbitrarily (not logically or scientifically) made illegal, so they are at a higher likelihood of becoming homicide victims at the hands of both the police and their business competitors, since gangs involved in a turf war do not have access to the courts to resolve their disagreements. When alcohol was illegal their was a huge spike in homicides comitted by and against those of European descent ... (c.f. "The Untouchables")
A large component of almost every social problem we experience in this country can be laid at the feet of the misguided "War on Drugs" we've enjoyed for the past forty years. But that belongs in another thread ... |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:05:18 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Cory, its what i keep saying, cultural perception, its not that they are black, its that being black bears negative connotation. |
It's not just "perception" -- white people make up the majority of every legislative body in the country, and when they pass laws such as those affecting cocaine posession, where the penalty for the powder form (used predominately by whites) was 1/20 the penalty for posessing the same quantity of the "crack" form (used predoinately in black commuities) it is should be clear why blacks mistrust the majority ... |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:19:29 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
and yet, people do not immediately think of the Japanese as racist, do they? Perhaps because, unlike the US, they are not (recently) murderously racist and have not (recently) previously enslaved people they perceive as 'other'. When I was in Dubai, the government didn't allow any foreigner to claim welfare - you lose your job you leave the country immediately. Also, a local had to be employed for every expat worker and locals couldn't be fired by a foreigner. All of which led to a very unbalanced and inefficient workplace but, like true enterprising westerners, we sucked the c**k and took the shilling...
eta "(recently)" the Japanese, of course, enslaved and murdered the chinese in the last century. |
People outside of Asia maybe... In Asia, it is very well known that they are racist towards Korean and Chinese especially. There is a very well known 'save your face' culture, not taking responsibility for their actions and creating a facade. They deny their own atrocities from World War II. Still, this is not WWII era Japan, this is now and it shouldn't be that way. 'Comfort Women' during WWII is still an issue now that politicians like to bring up to spark debate which angers Japanese women, Korean and Chinese women. It was a very violent era. The Raping of Nanking is just one example of Japanese brutality. Because Japan is an island nation it may have been more cut off from commit more atrocities, but even if it's not up to par with what happened with slavery in the west, these events have not caused the Korean and Chinese to allow this dictate their lives today.
There was another video by the same person I mentioned in my first post where he discusses slavery. He mentioned that the U.S was the ONLY nation to do away with slavery through war. For every other nation it was money and morals that made people go "OK, this isn't what we should be doing." Why this is, I don't know.
But I believe this is off-topic a bit. In Japan, I've never crossed the street to avoid a crowd of young men. I'm a big guy, I don't really fear for my physical safety in most cases. However, I've been jumped twice as a teenager. Both times were by minorities. Because of that, in Canada as a young man, I WOULD cross the street to avoid a crowd of young men, regardless of color. White, black, it doesn't matter. It's young, tough and a "What's yours is mine!" mentality that has me crossing the street. You don't have to legally be an adult either, 18. If you're 16 and big, or you're part of a large group that wants to cause trouble, I'm going to treat you the same as an adult, if you decide to attack me. A 15 year old can kill just as easily as an 18 or 25 year old, given the right circumstances.
With Trayvon Martin, the media published photos of him when he was NOT 17, the age he was when he died. They called him a child, which will elicit an image of a young kid. Yet his actions were anything but. A kid wouldn't be out that late. A kid wouldn't walk up to a grown man and punch him in the face and then beat his head into the ground. If my wife were in Zimmerman's situation, and the person beating her were black, white, young, old, kid or no kid, if her life is in danger then do WHATEVER you have to do in order to defend yourself, including pulling the trigger on a gun.
Why Trayvon did what he did, I don't know. When I was his age I would NEVER had attacked an adult for FEAR of the wrath my father would have brought down on me. And I most certainly would have never gotten away with what he did prior to the incident, getting caught with stolen goods at school, getting into fights, getting caught with pot. My ass would've been permanently scarred by the belt of my father.
And here's where I begin to question myself. I feel as though, the way the media has portrayed everything, that I'm now on the side of people like Sean Hannity (Someone I really don't like). I don't know what his views on this matter are, but almost everything he says is absolute BS and I love watching Russel Brand take him on via Youtube spats. I don't believe I'm being racist, but I do believe the black community has this wrong. Why loot from your own community to 'prove' a point. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:25:33 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Mike:
Cory, its what i keep saying, cultural perception, its not that they are black, its that being black bears negative connotation. |
It's not just "perception" -- white people make up the majority of every legislative body in the country, and when they pass laws such as those affecting cocaine posession, where the penalty for the powder form (used predominately by whites) was 1/20 the penalty for posessing the same quantity of the "crack" form (used predoinately in black commuities) it is should be clear why blacks mistrust the majority ... |
we have a black president and a black attorney general. maybe the black community should stop blaming whites and start blaming black leaders.
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:27:32 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
[
Why Trayvon did what he did, I don't know. When I was his age I would NEVER had attacked an adult for FEAR of the wrath my father would have brought down on me. |
i'd bet you could trace much of the problem to a lack of a father in the black household for the past few decades. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:29:29 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
There was another video by the same person I mentioned in my first post where he discusses slavery. He mentioned that the U.S was the ONLY nation to do away with slavery through war. For every other nation it was money and morals that made people go "OK, this isn't what we should be doing." Why this is, I don't know. |
The usual reasons - money, power, greed. Virtually the entire economy of the South was based on slave labor, and the fat cats wouldn't be nearly so fat with a "normal" labor market. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 01:40:07 PM · #34 |
slavery was on its was to being abolished before the war. the war was over states rights, not slavery per se.
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 14:48:25. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 02:53:00 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Mike:
slavery was on its was to being abolished before the war. the war was over states rights, not slavery per se. |
Uh, I think mainly over states' "right" to maintain slavery ... |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 03:00:54 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Mike:
Race is just one, not the only, of many factor I apply to judging someone not knowing them personally. |
Not singling you out personally (definitely not, this is a pervasive thing) but THAT is exactly what has to change across the board. Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people. |
I think it's very difficult and everybody processes the visual and other cues they get from a person they encounter. If the person doing the processing has a gun and a badge then we get a case like Brown's and, I have to slightly disagree with heavyj here, Martin's. The fact that self-defense laws allow you to kill someone and not be found guilty of a crime is not to say that the precipitating action and reaction was not racially motivated. In the Martin case there were a number of different possible outcomes and both protagonists made choices that led to tragedy and those choices were, to some degree, based on race I believe. |
Ok, I have only one question here. What do you make of the statistics that indicate that far more blacks are killed by blacks than by other races? What do you perceive to be behind the stats that indicate that the crime rate among African Americans is extraordinarily high? I accept that some of that may be due to enforcement bias, but surely there is a hell of a lot more going on here, and the fact remains that the odds of a random person attacking you do statistically increase when the random person is black.
the institutions of racism have been so effective at destroying the humanity of black people (especially men) and removing the capability to fight back and respond to injustice by any legitimate means that large parts of the community (largely ignored by the white community at large) turn on themselves in a self destructive rage. Also, since the 1960s (the time of civil rights) onwards the machinery of state has sought to subvert and destroy any attempt by black people to organise and engage aggressively with the oppressor, and that machinery (local, state, FBI etc.) have been very effective
Again, I'm not saying that this is in any way the full picture, but it's certainly on my mind when I'm in a predominately black area, especially considering that I'm quite pale and the simple reality is that black folks seem to be at least as racist (if not more so) than white people.
I'm sure it can seem that way. But don't you, on a quick reading of the history of black people in the US, wonder that they are not more violent towards you than they are? Also, I think I would be very much happier to be a white person asking for help at a random door in a black neighbourhood than a black person in a white neighbourhood (excluding the worst ghettos of any colour)
*shrug* Just my thoughts and observations, but at some point I have to wonder if judging others based on statistical evidence is actually racism, or even if it's wrong. We cannot, in today's world where we contact so many people each day, actually judge each person on their individual merits and personality, if only because there isn't enough time to be able to do so. This leaves us in a position where we have to make a choice, either follow the guidance that can be gleaned from stereotypes and statistics, or ignore that and treat everyone equally. I'm not sure that either approach isn't without merit, and I'm pretty certain that both have their downsides as well. So, what's a fellow to do?
A fellow should everyday educate and challenge himself. Learn something about the culture that you fear/dislike and try and change your thinking on it. It won't necessarily make you safer but you might make some small act of bravery or selfless kindness today that will help to change the status quo in the future. You can be a butterfly's wing, starting a hurricane of change!
I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts on the matter Ray, as I suspect your perspective on this is quite different from my own. Robert, you too. I'd like to hear how you feel this should be handled, given that "Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people." - I realize I'm not taking the party line here, but I see a pretty big gap in the 'ignore race no matter what' argument.
There are people, recent immigrants to the UK, that the media and certain politicians are trying to teach the population to hate. They are economic migrants from eastern Europe. It is easy to spot, stereotype and dislike them. They're like all foreigners - dirty, shifty, prone to laziness and theft. They have shops selling unknowable foodstuffs and drink cheap beer in the street. I play football (soccer to you) and have made the effort to know these Bulgarians and invite them to play in our local league. And guess what? They're like us - the other less recent immigrants to the UK, me from Jamaica. Find what you have in common with somebody and race fades into the background. I guess it is more difficult in the US because of it's history but just make a new black friend - that will at least be one person who won't shoot at you. Get to know his family and you're on a roll!
Of course, this does follow through to the guy in the suit vs. the guy in gangsta clothing - clearly the man in the suit is MUCH less likely to cause problems no matter WHAT race or culture he is.
And of course, that's the other BIG thing, culture matters more than race, WAY more, however, certain cultures do seem to follow racial biases of their own.
I mean really, the whole thing is a huge deal with no clear answer, but I cannot see the wisdom in ignoring information which is available to us upon which we can more successfully judge the potential outcomes of an interaction. I think using all the information we can possibly gather is the best idea, regardless of the popularity of said methodology. Interestingly, I think I'd like to be swayed from this position, as clearly it's not a particularly popular position to hold today.
What a good question and interesting statement: "Interestingly, I think I'd like to be swayed from this position, as clearly it's not a particularly popular position to hold today" I don't know that you should hold a position, whatever it is, because of it's popularity. Surely you should think that fear is a bad way to live - fearful of other humans, the areas they live in, what they might do. You talk about the chances of negative things happening and I'm sure there are risky places that I, as a black man would not be comfortable to visit. I think you just have to have the courage to risk finding out that a stereotype is unfounded if in even one out of ten people. (but keep yourself safe!)
|
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 03:34:57 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Of course, this does follow through to the guy in the suit vs. the guy in gangsta clothing - clearly the man in the suit is MUCH less likely to cause problems no matter WHAT race or culture he is. |
You think the destruction of the economy by the "suits" on Wall Street caused fewer "problems" than someone swiping a box of cigars?As through this world you travel, you'll meet some funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen.
--Woody Guthrie, "The Ballade of Pretty Boy Floyd" |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 03:36:33 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Mike:
slavery was on its was to being abolished before the war. the war was over states rights, not slavery per se. |
Uh, I think mainly over states' "right" to maintain slavery ... |
Mike, that's bogus historical revisionism. The South's economy *and* culture were based on slavery. This may not have been the only reason for the Civil War, but it was the biggest reason. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 03:39:24 PM · #39 |
I sat through the whole long video that heavyj posted. He took Zimmerman's testimony as fact and was extremely vague about the physical evidence and witness statements that supported it. Then he goes off on a long rant about *spanking* of all things.
Finally, he says we have to unite and fight the real power, like the fascist weapons of the police, but then when Michael Brown is killed by a policeman, he lumps it together with the Trayvon Martin case.
He also calls the president "B. Hussein Obama."
Not my idea of a rational philosopher.
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 15:39:46. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 03:41:53 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by heavyj:
[
Why Trayvon did what he did, I don't know. When I was his age I would NEVER had attacked an adult for FEAR of the wrath my father would have brought down on me. |
i'd bet you could trace much of the problem to a lack of a father in the black household for the past few decades. |
and what causes the lack of a father in black households, and what fixes it? what is the use of your statement? |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 04:37:23 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
and what causes the lack of a father in black households ...? |
To a large degree, incarceration, fueled by poverty. See my post on the "Drug War" ... |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 07:56:22 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by heavyj:
[
Why Trayvon did what he did, I don't know. When I was his age I would NEVER had attacked an adult for FEAR of the wrath my father would have brought down on me. |
i'd bet you could trace much of the problem to a lack of a father in the black household for the past few decades. |
and what causes the lack of a father in black households, and what fixes it? what is the use of your statement? |
i don't know and i don't know.
but when young men lack the protection and father guidance they struggle with what it means to be a man and leave themselves susceptible to peer pressures and external influences. children of all races need a mother and a father.. Is it really that hard to draw a line here to certain behaviors? |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 08:03:47 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Mike:
Race is just one, not the only, of many factor I apply to judging someone not knowing them personally. |
Not singling you out personally (definitely not, this is a pervasive thing) but THAT is exactly what has to change across the board. Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people. |
the institutions of racism have been so effective at destroying the humanity of black people (especially men) and removing the capability to fight back and respond to injustice by any legitimate means that large parts of the community (largely ignored by the white community at large) turn on themselves in a self destructive rage. Also, since the 1960s (the time of civil rights) onwards the machinery of state has sought to subvert and destroy any attempt by black people to organise and engage aggressively with the oppressor, and that machinery (local, state, FBI etc.) have been very effective |
This is a tired line for me - I'm sorry, but damnit, you've gotta own it man, you've gotta take responsibility man. I mean, really, I had a childhood that arguably should have doomed me to prison, failure, etc. I made a choice when I was 25 to rise above all of that and to change my life.. I see many parallels between how I felt then and what you've written here - I felt my situation was the product of other people's actions and choices, which to a degree, I was right. However, in the end, I had to choose what I wanted for myself, and I think much the same is true of this situation. Of course there are those who ARE doing this, the problem is really the enablers and apologists who perpetuate the exact same explanation that you've just given me.
I truly apologize if what I say is offensive to you, as that is not at all my intent here, but while I cannot deny that all you've said is true, I also cannot accept what you've said as an acceptable state of affairs, nor as a reason for this to continue into the future. Surely you can agree with that? (I hope?)
Originally posted by Cory:
Again, I'm not saying that this is in any way the full picture, but it's certainly on my mind when I'm in a predominately black area, especially considering that I'm quite pale and the simple reality is that black folks seem to be at least as racist (if not more so) than white people. |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
I'm sure it can seem that way. But don't you, on a quick reading of the history of black people in the US, wonder that they are not more violent towards you than they are? Also, I think I would be very much happier to be a white person asking for help at a random door in a black neighbourhood than a black person in a white neighbourhood (excluding the worst ghettos of any colour) |
Not really. I actually end up wondering why the Irish didn't end up more like the blacks. Aside from that, I'm left wondering why people feel that historical wrongs against their ancestors is acceptable as a justification for their mistreatment of others in the present. Frankly, I've suffered VERY little aggression from darker individuals, mostly I find my interactions with black folks to be downright pleasant and enjoyable. Statistics are still valid though, even in the face of my personal experience. And for what it's worth, I'm one of three white people that I know of in my neighborhood. There really are more black families on my block than white.
Originally posted by Cory:
*shrug* Just my thoughts and observations, but at some point I have to wonder if judging others based on statistical evidence is actually racism, or even if it's wrong. We cannot, in today's world where we contact so many people each day, actually judge each person on their individual merits and personality, if only because there isn't enough time to be able to do so. This leaves us in a position where we have to make a choice, either follow the guidance that can be gleaned from stereotypes and statistics, or ignore that and treat everyone equally. I'm not sure that either approach isn't without merit, and I'm pretty certain that both have their downsides as well. So, what's a fellow to do? |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
A fellow should everyday educate and challenge himself. Learn something about the culture that you fear/dislike and try and change your thinking on it. It won't necessarily make you safer but you might make some small act of bravery or selfless kindness today that will help to change the status quo in the future. You can be a butterfly's wing, starting a hurricane of change! |
Well, I don't quite know what more I could do here, it's not like I actually avoid black people in any way, of course, I'm not the sort that really worries about trouble too much either, being that I'm comfortable in sketchy situations. It's nothing that I've experienced personally for the most part (small things, mostly easily diffused and non-issues), it's much more a simple observation that there clearly is more going on here than many would like to admit. In the end, I wonder how much your response to this changes knowing that I don't live in a white suburb, and that I don't actually fear black people, but do instead simply keep my eyes open just a bit wider when around unknown black people, on the dual basis that there is an increased statistical likelihood of violence, and the knowledge that white folks aren't the only racists out there.
Originally posted by Cory:
I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts on the matter Ray, as I suspect your perspective on this is quite different from my own. Robert, you too. I'd like to hear how you feel this should be handled, given that "Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people." - I realize I'm not taking the party line here, but I see a pretty big gap in the 'ignore race no matter what' argument. |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
There are people, recent immigrants to the UK, that the media and certain politicians are trying to teach the population to hate. They are economic migrants from eastern Europe. It is easy to spot, stereotype and dislike them. They're like all foreigners - dirty, shifty, prone to laziness and theft. They have shops selling unknowable foodstuffs and drink cheap beer in the street. I play football (soccer to you) and have made the effort to know these Bulgarians and invite them to play in our local league. And guess what? They're like us - the other less recent immigrants to the UK, me from Jamaica. Find what you have in common with somebody and race fades into the background. I guess it is more difficult in the US because of it's history but just make a new black friend - that will at least be one person who won't shoot at you. Get to know his family and you're on a roll! |
Throwing your lot in with all of the immigrants in England is probably a pretty horrible idea, given that the Muslim variety have been recently seen to bomb subways, stab people in the street in broad daylight, and are actively forcefully implementing sharia law in parts of Britain. They are in fact quite troublesome and pushy, and are causing a hell of a lot of trouble. Again, not ALL of them by any means, it's clearly a small minority, but that small minority is only denounced as lip-service by the majority of their fellow-minded immigrants. It has shit nothing to do with the foodstuffs, and they are actually stopping British citizens and demanding that they pour out their alcohol on the street, which is a far cry from consuming cheap beer in the street (something the Brits mostly approve of in fact...)... The Bulgarians? No idea about them, haven't heard a word of the controversy. As for the islanders like you, man, don't you know I live part-time in Miami, you Jamaicans are a hoot, haven't met one I didn't like yet.
Originally posted by Cory:
I mean really, the whole thing is a huge deal with no clear answer, but I cannot see the wisdom in ignoring information which is available to us upon which we can more successfully judge the potential outcomes of an interaction. I think using all the information we can possibly gather is the best idea, regardless of the popularity of said methodology. Interestingly, I think I'd like to be swayed from this position, as clearly it's not a particularly popular position to hold today. |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
What a good question and interesting statement: "Interestingly, I think I'd like to be swayed from this position, as clearly it's not a particularly popular position to hold today" I don't know that you should hold a position, whatever it is, because of it's popularity. Surely you should think that fear is a bad way to live - fearful of other humans, the areas they live in, what they might do. You talk about the chances of negative things happening and I'm sure there are risky places that I, as a black man would not be comfortable to visit. I think you just have to have the courage to risk finding out that a stereotype is unfounded if in even one out of ten people. (but keep yourself safe!) |
As I said, I'm not fearful, and I agree, total shit way to live man, I'd rather take the risks myself and have all the fun. But I do recognize the reasons why some do fear black people, and I recognize that they may not being doing so for reasons that are rooted in racism. (even if the actual fear itself manifests as such)... The problem is, as you inadvertently noted, the problem folks may only be one in ten people, or maybe even on in a hundred, but if the risk is increased, and the maximum penalty is death, I can absolutely sympathize with those who feel the risk far outweighs the rewards.
--
In the end Ray, if you're ever in the US drop me a line, it'd be my honest pleasure to buy you a beer or three and have a chat. I think you'd be surprised at how many stereotypes you've got wrong about me. ;)
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 21:36:25. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 08:05:17 PM · #44 |
What causes lack of fatherhood is when people like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie get married (as they recently have) because their CHILDREN wanted them to, and asked them to, get married.
And these are... our heroes.
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 09:06:34 PM · #45 |
fatherhood doesn't require marriage, it requires understanding that you created a life you are responsible for raising.
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 21:06:47. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 09:25:34 PM · #46 |
What does that teach the children about commitment if the man is not willing to legally say that he is responsible for them?
How many children see a new "daddy" every other month?
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 09:33:40 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Lydia:
What does that teach the children about commitment if the man is not willing to legally say that he is responsible for them?
How many children see a new "daddy" every other month? |
hey i'm divorced... watch it.. :)
marriage is not a precursor to fatherhood. commitment goes both way.
point is the children need a father and mother that care about them and their well-being and uprising.
Message edited by author 2014-08-28 21:36:34. |
|
|
|
08/28/2014 09:34:52 PM · #48 |
I'm not talking about divorce... (although that's not the best thing either, I know personally)... I'm talking about children whose parents were never married... and they lived "day to day"... the children worrying every day if Daddy would come home that night or not...
Or if... a new guy would move in that day...
"fatherhood doesn't require marriage, it requires understanding that you created a life you are responsible for raising."
Sending a check is not enough, even though the law says it is. You're right... they must fulfill the commitment of RAISING the child.
But... we're off topic here... we're supposed to be talking about prejudice... not responsibility. :D
Now that I'm here though... I think I'm much more "on alert" with a young black male... or young white male... than I am with either a young black or white female.
We HAVE been taught... through our experiences... what is a threat to us... and what is not.
Call it racism... call it sexism... call it... uhh... ageism... (I'm not on alert with a 75 year old man... any color... as I am with a 20 year old man... any color)...
Call it what you like. My experiences have honed my instincts... True or not... It's all I have to go by.
I've been raped... I've been mugged.
I'm on alert when any characteristic of a person triggers my "radar" because of my experiences.
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 09:37:35 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Mike:
hey i'm divorced... watch it.. :)
marriage is not a precursor to fatherhood. commitment goes both way.
point is the children need a father and mother that care about them and their well-being and uprising. |
Ha! I was typing my reply and didn't see this before... But... I stand by my post. :D
|
|
|
|
08/28/2014 11:39:39 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Mike:
Race is just one, not the only, of many factor I apply to judging someone not knowing them personally. |
Not singling you out personally (definitely not, this is a pervasive thing) but THAT is exactly what has to change across the board. Race ought not be a factor at all when it comes to "judging" people. |
how can it not though? its natural to perceive someone different than you as different, i'd argue its instinctual. What needs to change is the perception that a particular race is viewed negatively. |
We're saying the same thing: it's one thing to say "I see a different color skin than mine!" and another thing altogether to judge a person based not on their words or actions but on the color of their skin. |
|
|
|
Current Server Time: 08/26/2025 07:34:49 AM  |
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/26/2025 07:34:49 AM EDT.
|
