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05/08/2014 08:40:54 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
... most importantly, we have an extremely low rate of unemployment and poverty. |
Ding ... Ding ... Ding ... perhaps it's only coincidence that the US has both the highest rate of income/wealth disparity and the highest rate of incarceration in the "First World" ... :-( |
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05/08/2014 10:13:53 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
You dont need a firearm to cause pain...and sometimes death like the prom girl |
That's true in the same way a soldier could use a bow and arrow instead of a firearm... and just as irrelevant. |
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05/08/2014 10:20:22 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by jab119:
All states require a background check. |
..but they only apply to DUMB criminals since 40+ states do not require ANY background check at gun shows or private sales, and straw purchases can be used to circumvent background checks anyway. |
Here is another instance I covered before. In order to by a gun at ANY gun show you must do a back ground check. This is for purchases from a vendor to an individual. This is just like any purchase from any company that sells guns at any location.
The media and anti-gun groups keeps talking about the "Gun Show loop hole". This is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make people scared.
Private sales between 2 private people do not require a back ground check in any state no matter where it is sold. Making background checks mandatory at gun shows wont stop the private person to private person sales at all, the people will buy and sell somewhere else.
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05/08/2014 10:28:59 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by rooum:
The terms 'to kill' and 'to murder' are different things which i think you are conflating (which is perhaps why you are expecting to see accidental deaths by firearms on an FBI murder list). |
no different, you take a life it is murder end of story. softer definitions are complete crap and allow murders to get off easy.
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05/08/2014 10:58:46 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by jab119:
In order to by a gun at ANY gun show you must do a back ground check... Making background checks mandatory at gun shows wont stop the private person to private person sales at all |
You disagree with yourself. Good thing, too, because self #1 is just plain wrong. Only 7 states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows, and 33 states have no restrictions whatsoever on private sales at gun shows. I never suggested that gun show checks would impede private sales, either. Just pointing out that your "all states require background checks" statement is silly when there are multiple ways to easily circumvent them. |
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05/08/2014 11:26:51 PM · #56 |
I KNEW this challenge topic would make for some fun stuff!
This is much better than the Nude challenge from years ago...
The popcorn, please?!
I'm out.
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05/08/2014 11:45:44 PM · #57 |
When you can give me a 100% guarantee that it is impossible for a criminal to have a lethal weapon, I'll buy into Shannon's gun ban BS. Until thenĂ¢€Â¦I'll stay armed.
If he's really interested in saving lives, he should look at getting rid of tobacco, alcohol and fast food. The result of those three things is many times more deaths and more suffering than firearms. But it's easy to run about waving your hands that "guns are scary, guns are bad!!" instead of dealing with the underlying problem of why people choose to commit violent crimes in the first place. |
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05/09/2014 12:02:11 AM · #58 |
Oh, please. Just stop. All of you. You're like a bunch of children. Without beer, pickup trucks, caged beavers, or Juliet chasing Bear_Music's dog down the roam this thread is uninteresting and unfunny, and nobody is going to change anyone's mind.
Rant, please. Let's talk about photography. Anybody see a good show lately? |
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05/09/2014 12:41:30 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by Ann:
Oh, please. Just stop. All of you. You're like a bunch of children. Without beer, pickup trucks, caged beavers, or Juliet chasing Bear_Music's dog down the roam this thread is uninteresting and unfunny, and nobody is going to change anyone's mind.
Rant, please. Let's talk about photography. Anybody see a good show lately? |
Caged Beavers!??!
Somebody has caged beavers!?!
REally!? And no photos!?
I need photos!
(and popcorn, but I believe I did mention that I was out of popcorn before...)
Carry on!
I'd even love a photo of a pickup truck about now...
Beer... guns... caged beavers... pickup trucks.
Let's see 'em!!
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05/09/2014 12:50:17 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
... most importantly, we have an extremely low rate of unemployment and poverty. |
Ding ... Ding ... Ding ... perhaps it's only coincidence that the US has both the highest rate of income/wealth disparity and the highest rate of incarceration in the "First World" ... :-( |
I tell my kids all the time  GeneralE that being so fortunate to live in our part of the world is like winning the lottery - every day. It's a paradox that the people wanting to be wealthier than others seems to surround themselves with misery - created by the very difference they're longing for.
Message edited by author 2014-05-09 00:51:36. |
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05/09/2014 01:03:27 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
When you can give me a 100% guarantee that it is impossible for a criminal to have a lethal weapon, I'll buy into Shannon's gun ban BS. Until thenĂ¢€Â¦I'll stay armed. |
See Trollman? I've never said anything about a ban, but mention the things you call "easy access" and people freak out. It's funny and utterly pathetic at the same time.
We have a constitutional right to bear arms in this country. Absolutely nobody denies this, but any effort to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants, makes the guns rights crowd go crazy out of fear that THEY will somehow be affected. For that reason, they have opposed any research on the problem of gun violence, any sort of federal database or universal checks of the buyers. We have another constitutional right that allows us to vote for our representatives in government, however there has been a recent push to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants. To accomplish this, proponents demand research to find evidence that a problem even exists, extensive federal databases and universal checks of voter identity. There is a strong correlation between these two groups. It's madness. |
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05/09/2014 02:09:28 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
When you can give me a 100% guarantee that it is impossible for a criminal to have a lethal weapon, I'll buy into Shannon's gun ban BS. Until thenĂ¢€Â¦I'll stay armed. |
See Trollman? I've never said anything about a ban, but mention the things you call "easy access" and people freak out. It's funny and utterly pathetic at the same time.
We have a constitutional right to bear arms in this country. Absolutely nobody denies this, but any effort to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants, makes the guns rights crowd go crazy out of fear that THEY will somehow be affected. For that reason, they have opposed any research on the problem of gun violence, any sort of federal database or universal checks of the buyers. We have another constitutional right that allows us to vote for our representatives in government, however there has been a recent push to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants. To accomplish this, proponents demand research to find evidence that a problem even exists, extensive federal databases and universal checks of voter identity. There is a strong correlation between these two groups. It's madness. |
Unfortunately, I'm thinking that there will always be "easy access" to guns. Even if they were totally banned, the peeps we don't want to have guns, will still find a way. That's why I think the best bet is to do something with the motivation to use the firearms.
If we totally ban cars, there wouldn't be any deaths by car accidents either. Instead we do our best through drivers ed. videos, law enforcement etc to ensure as safe driving as possible. We also had a wacko here in Norway that killed something like 77 people a couple years back. It is commonly agreed in Norway that our relatively easy access to weapons was not the reason for the killing. It sat a lot deeper... it was the reason for killing that made him do it. A combination of insanity and fear of Norway being taken over by immigrants. Guns was not even an issue. He also made a bomb from easily accessible chemicals.
It's by not giving them a reason that would make the biggest impact. Programs to limit bullying in schools. Fair treatment of employees (and students). And the culture... which unfortunately cannot be changed over night - in combination withe strict gun laws.
The "I need to a gun to defend myself from other people with guns" thing is an evil circle that will never help. It IS a constitutional right in the US (as far as I know and read here). But who says this is "best practice"? So many "good guys" turn bad. One day their spouse is unfaithful - or not. But there might be a nagging suspicion. That's all it takes. And then they conveniently have their "protection gun" in their drawer. There is no doubt in my mind that free access to firearms would increase the rate of murders by guns. I'm absolutely for limiting access as much as possible. |
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05/09/2014 02:23:02 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by jab119:
In order to by a gun at ANY gun show you must do a back ground check... Making background checks mandatory at gun shows wont stop the private person to private person sales at all |
You disagree with yourself. Good thing, too, because self #1 is just plain wrong. Only 7 states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows, and 33 states have no restrictions whatsoever on private sales at gun shows. I never suggested that gun show checks would impede private sales, either. Just pointing out that your "all states require background checks" statement is silly when there are multiple ways to easily circumvent them. |
You are confusing 2 different items here that happen to be under one roof. and maybe I was a little confusing on my wording, so hope this is an easier read.
#1 - private sales -
no matter where it takes place, does not require a background check, with the exception of a few places as you stated, So I stand corrected. That is 7 states and only if the transaction is held at a gun show.
#2 - Licensed Dealers -
To buy a firearm from federally licensed dealers you will submit a back ground check at a gun show, the same as you would at their store front. This has been the law since 1938 if purchasing from a federally licensed dealer.
Yes there are many ways the get around any system and no matter how strict the laws get, criminals will ALWAYS get what they want. Yet, making it harder for lawful people to obtain LEGALLY.
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05/09/2014 03:28:11 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by jab119:
Originally posted by rooum:
The terms 'to kill' and 'to murder' are different things which i think you are conflating (which is perhaps why you are expecting to see accidental deaths by firearms on an FBI murder list). |
no different, you take a life it is murder end of story. softer definitions are complete crap and allow murders to get off easy. |
I think the main thing that is getting murdered here is the english language. Perhaps this confusion is arising from a translation issue. You can 'be killed' by a falling tree or in an industrial accident. You are not generally thought to have 'been murdered' by the falling tree or a piece of machinery. Maybe you are thinking that it becomes murder if another human is the cause of the death but that's not true. Murder implies intent. Like i said, perhaps it's a translation issue and english isn't your first language - if so, then i apologise if i'm coming over as rude. Just trying to point out the difference.
Message edited by author 2014-05-09 04:40:53. |
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05/09/2014 03:40:00 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
I'm thinking that there will always be "easy access" to guns. Even if they were totally banned, the peeps we don't want to have guns, will still find a way. |
Nobody is calling for a ban, and your own country's example (along with Australia and many others) debunks the "bad guys will find a way" argument. Sure, the determined criminals will, but nowhere NEAR the number that access firearms when the hurdles are trivial. Arguing that burglars will still find a way to break into a house with locks or rogue financiers will still find a way to swindle money despite banking regulations is an insane reason to make it easy for them. We just had a convicted felon and former KKK leader go on a killing rampage three weeks ago with a gun he obtained without any background check through a straw buyer... not because he "found a way," but because the people so determined to block any restrictions on guns gave him one. |
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05/09/2014 04:57:58 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
I'm thinking that there will always be "easy access" to guns. Even if they were totally banned, the peeps we don't want to have guns, will still find a way. |
Nobody is calling for a ban, and your own country's example (along with Australia and many others) debunks the "bad guys will find a way" argument. Sure, the determined criminals will, but nowhere NEAR the number that access firearms when the hurdles are trivial. Arguing that burglars will still find a way to break into a house with locks or rogue financiers will still find a way to swindle money despite banking regulations is an insane reason to make it easy for them. We just had a convicted felon and former KKK leader go on a killing rampage three weeks ago with a gun he obtained without any background check through a straw buyer... not because he "found a way," but because the people so determined to block any restrictions on guns gave him one. |
I realize nobody is calling for a ban. And that would not be a good thing anyway (as I mentioned with banning cars to avoid car accidents). I'm pretty sure we agree on this issue Shannon. I'm just not as good as expressing it. :) |
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05/09/2014 08:06:04 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by jab119:
Originally posted by rooum:
The terms 'to kill' and 'to murder' are different things which i think you are conflating (which is perhaps why you are expecting to see accidental deaths by firearms on an FBI murder list). |
no different, you take a life it is murder end of story. softer definitions are complete crap and allow murders to get off easy. |
I think the main thing that is getting murdered here is the english language. Perhaps this confusion is arising from a translation issue. You can 'be killed' by a falling tree or in an industrial accident. You are not generally thought to have 'been murdered' by the falling tree or a piece of machinery. Maybe you are thinking that it becomes murder if another human is the cause of the death but that's not true. Murder implies intent. Like i said, perhaps it's a translation issue and english isn't your first language - if so, then i apologise if i'm coming over as rude. Just trying to point out the difference. |
Very well said, Clive. But I think we'd rightly agree he's not really murdering the language. It's more like negligent homicide. |
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05/09/2014 08:44:34 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spork99:
When you can give me a 100% guarantee that it is impossible for a criminal to have a lethal weapon, I'll buy into Shannon's gun ban BS. Until thenĂ¢€Â¦I'll stay armed. |
See Trollman? I've never said anything about a ban, but mention the things you call "easy access" and people freak out. It's funny and utterly pathetic at the same time.
We have a constitutional right to bear arms in this country. Absolutely nobody denies this, but any effort to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants, makes the guns rights crowd go crazy out of fear that THEY will somehow be affected. For that reason, they have opposed any research on the problem of gun violence, any sort of federal database or universal checks of the buyers. We have another constitutional right that allows us to vote for our representatives in government, however there has been a recent push to restrict access for those who DON'T have that right, such as convicted felons, the mentally ill or illegal immigrants. To accomplish this, proponents demand research to find evidence that a problem even exists, extensive federal databases and universal checks of voter identity. There is a strong correlation between these two groups. It's madness. |
I was not referring specifically to comments you've made in this thread, but to your comments from previous discussions on guns. You should also note, that I personally do not believe the voter rights restriction laws and/or proposals are anything but stupid. |
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05/09/2014 08:53:17 AM · #69 |
| Some of you sound disturbed by the subject of this challenge. But it is just another challenge you can enter it or choose not to, that is entirely up to you. But there have been other challenges that people were not interested in or maybe agreed with. Just leave your camera at home. Why make such a big deal out of this one. We're all here for the sake and love for photography aren't we? |
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05/09/2014 10:09:57 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by rooum:
I think the main thing that is getting murdered here is the english language. Perhaps this confusion is arising from a translation issue. You can 'be killed' by a falling tree or in an industrial accident. You are not generally thought to have 'been murdered' by the falling tree or a piece of machinery. Maybe you are thinking that it becomes murder if another human is the cause of the death but that's not true. Murder implies intent. Like i said, perhaps it's a translation issue and english isn't your first language - if so, then i apologise if i'm coming over as rude. Just trying to point out the difference. |
no, i don't take it as being rude at all. its only my personal opinion that if one human takes the life of another human, intentional or not, that is murder. I just don't like the "softer" definitions used to describe certain instances where a human takes the life of another human. I'm particularly upset about drunk drivers not being called and charged as murders, but as someone who committed involuntary manslaughter or some other definition which carries a lighter punishment. |
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05/09/2014 10:17:50 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
You should also note, that I personally do not believe the voter rights restriction laws and/or proposals are anything but stupid. |
Voter ID laws are needed and not stupid. People need some type of government ID for just about every aspect of their life, except to vote?
Should illegal immigrants be allowed to vote? NO they are NOT a citizen and do not have the rights to vote. This goes for any country. If I sneak in to France and live there illegally for 10 years, does that give me the right to vote in the French elections? No, Im not a citizen there.
Should felons be allowed to vote? NO that is part of your punishment. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time. |
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05/11/2014 05:17:48 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
I'm thinking that there will always be "easy access" to guns. Even if they were totally banned, the peeps we don't want to have guns, will still find a way. |
Nobody is calling for a ban, BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
restrictions on guns gave him one. |
This and all Scalverts numerous posts is why I'd rather this existed in the RANT forum. These "gun" discussions just degrade into "did" , "did too", "I'm smarter than you", "You're a big dummie", "Can't remember your last post", "Blah, blah, blah, blah,". Just a bunch of heat with nothing accomplished in either direction. Actually adds to global warming... Oppps another verboten discussion!!!!!! :) (Well I guess if you are a global warming promoter it's ok)
Message edited by Bear_Music - sorten lines of blablahs. |
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05/11/2014 06:18:40 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by jab119:
Originally posted by Spork99:
You should also note, that I personally do not believe the voter rights restriction laws and/or proposals are anything but stupid. |
Voter ID laws are needed and not stupid. People need some type of government ID for just about every aspect of their life, except to vote?
Should illegal immigrants be allowed to vote? NO they are NOT a citizen and do not have the rights to vote. This goes for any country. If I sneak in to France and live there illegally for 10 years, does that give me the right to vote in the French elections? No, Im not a citizen there.
Should felons be allowed to vote? NO that is part of your punishment. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time. |
Those aren't the kind of laws being proposed. When I go vote, they check my name and address against the roll sheet of registered voters, if I don't have ID, I have to sign an affidavit. The eligibility to vote gets verified at the time of registration, checking every time someone goes to the polls is unnecessary. Especially when those laws are being used to intimidate and exclude eligible voters. |
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05/11/2014 08:30:24 PM · #74 |
I will never understand why people who are perfectly responsible with their firearms in most circumstances would have any issue with registering firearms and doing their best, whatever it takes to keep firearms and their ownership in a good, responsible light.
Why wouldn't you be in favor of licensing, training, and tracking firearms in case one falls off the grid......gets lost, stolen, and/or used in an inappropriate way?
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05/11/2014 09:22:15 PM · #75 |
Clicked on... read three random posts... clicked off.
I don't do silly discussions. *sigh*
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