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02/24/2014 03:44:26 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
Actually, after picking on the comment, I have a comment on this part -- It does improve photography skills, because it points out that street photography, in particular, is many times considered a commentary on life. This challenge was interesting in that Winogrand's photos (imo) say a lot more about the people or the times than many street photos that I have seen. I wasn't familiar with his photography, but when I was looking, I was struck by the fact that there was a lot more Life in his photos. I had this one as an outtake,
but even though it was more the wide angle style that he did than my entry, it didn't really say much about the person. It seemed more sterile. That's why I went with my entry.
So while there were issues that I had with the comment (and probably overreacted, but I'll still leave things and not edit them because I think it's a conversation to be had), the comment itself is a good reminder of what street photography can be. Social commentary vs just a picture of someone on the street. It something different to consider when going out shooting.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 15:48:18. |
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02/24/2014 03:48:59 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
It is "useful" because it shows how one's image could be interpreted, or misinterpreted if the comment does not reflect the impression or ideas intended(?) by the photographer. |
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02/24/2014 03:54:53 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
 Ubique didn't TAKE the picture... Why are we picking on him and not on  LevT, who singled these women out for our attention? Just because we've all of us known wonderful men and women who happened to be obese doesn't one whit lower the image's impact as a piece of social observation and/or commentary. |
Excellent point, Bear. To me they are both saying the same thing, and both more eloquently than I could have done.
Obesity is an epidemic in the US. It effects the length of our lives, our families, our quality of life, perhaps our wealth if that is important. AND to some extent we can control this. I've got kids who lean on the heavier side. I fight my weight and try to improve. My wife struggles too. So rather than a commentary on the USA, it hits closer to home than that. There are so few photos that can really rock me, but this one comes close. I love it for that. The comment? Frankly I'm back here 'cuz the other site (flickr) is full of "nice shots", "love its" and "favs". Every once it awhile DPC offers a sharp or just kinda sharp criticism of a photograph of mine. That does motivate me. Finally, critiquing a photo... providing a good verbal analysis of what it does to me (the viewer) is a challenge. Maybe even an art? Some here are very good at that. I try to learn from them for selfish reasons.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 15:57:48. |
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02/24/2014 04:37:23 PM · #54 |
Folks, YOU ARE PHOTOGRAPHERS HERE PRIMARILY !!!!!!! Do not forget it.
Please do not censorship photograph, photographers and comments.
If in doubt, look at some paintings of photographs from the past that you go and look at in museums because they've been "approved" by the passing of time and their prominent placing.
Look at Rubens, Boucher (do look at Boucher please with all the pink flesh and buts and sweet flowers and ripe fruit), look at Lautrec, Daumier, Mapplethorppe â€Â¦.please look at the primitive art of the world, look at Venus of Willendorfâ€Â¦ and make comments as if it's the first time you see the image. And make intelligent investigations in their times and cultures.
If you do not feel inclined to, let other people do it and continue your work the best of the abilities.
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02/24/2014 05:29:53 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
Not me. I want a genuine reaction to what people see, feel and think. It's not my photographic skills that get showcased here but my photographic choices. There's a big difference. |
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02/24/2014 05:33:03 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Paul:
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
Not me. I want a genuine reaction to what people see, feel and think. It's not my photographic skills that get showcased here but my photographic choices. There's a big difference. |
Perhaps, but both contribute to one's growth as a photographer. So I happily welcome both types of comment -- as do the majority of us.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 17:36:12. |
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02/24/2014 05:37:47 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by bvy:
For my own part, ubique is worth the cost of membership here. |
agreed.
Originally posted by atupdate:
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills? |
To me, more than everything else, photography is the art of seeing. ubique's comments show us how to see, and for that I am grateful. |
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02/24/2014 06:28:27 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by mitalapo:
To me, more than everything else, photography is the art of seeing. ubique's comments show us how to see, and for that I am grateful. |
Richard Avedon famously said "The art of seeing is the beginning of art." |
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02/24/2014 06:34:59 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
...and one could argue that the vast majority of comments doled out in this venue have very little to do with improving one's skills. Laudable comments devoid of constructive criticism will not help one learn what is either good or bad about the image, nor will it help one improve their techniques.
Ray
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 21:54:26. |
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02/24/2014 06:51:13 PM · #60 |
I guess it depends on the flavor of the Koolaid you're drinking. When viewing street photography, the emotion portrayed is generally my focus. I looked at this image and saw two older ladies sharing a joyous moment and was happy for them. I wondered how many occasions such as this they had left in their lifetime. It never occurred to me that this was an opportunity to dissect the peripherals, and then use my preconceived notions to unilaterally besmirch an entire culture.
In this particular instance, as so often happens, I revel in my shallowness.
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02/24/2014 07:03:34 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Marfun:
It never occurred to me that this was an opportunity to dissect the peripherals, and then use my preconceived notions to unilaterally besmirch an entire culture.
In this particular instance, as so often happens, I revel in my shallowness. |
...and that goes to show that we all look at things differently and that some have no problem with expressing a view that will offend some.
I also seriously doubt that what was proferred in this instance would fall into the category of a "preconceived notion" since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention states that a good percentage of the American population is obese.
Ray |
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02/24/2014 07:38:58 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
ubique is giving his interpretation of what he thinks the photograph is saying. political correctness does not apply here.
Personally, I wish people mocked me for being obese. Maybe I would have lost some weight and not have the health problems that I have now. |
This is a sign for good, and humbling as well! |
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02/24/2014 08:15:53 PM · #63 |
Street photography is not about "backstory's" thats the beauty of it, you get to make up your own.
Ubique has simply put into words what levt has shown him in a photograph.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 22:05:56. |
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02/24/2014 08:20:55 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by nick_hinch:
Street photograph is not about "backstory's" thats the beauty of it, you get to make up your own.
Ubique has simply put into words what levt's has shown him in a photograph. |
Exactly!! I love making up the back story.....sometimes when I look back at street shots the story changes too.....it's a moment caught in time that can also be very fluid. |
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02/24/2014 08:31:50 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Originally posted by posthumous:
ubique is giving his interpretation of what he thinks the photograph is saying. political correctness does not apply here.
Personally, I wish people mocked me for being obese. Maybe I would have lost some weight and not have the health problems that I have now. |
This is a sign for good, and humbling as well! |
It's never too late, Don. Post up some selfies and we'll mock you into shape in no time. |
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02/24/2014 09:59:52 PM · #66 |
| I can't possibly digest all this wit....... can I just skim off the cream? |
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02/25/2014 04:11:03 AM · #67 |
| Wonderful image, great comment, crap thread. |
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02/25/2014 08:51:34 AM · #68 |
...
Message edited by author 2014-02-25 11:12:09. |
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02/25/2014 11:11:54 AM · #69 |
"Obviously ubique is a giant asset to the sight, providing insightful comments"
No question here. And I thank ubique for his participation. I was the first to welcome ubique's proclamation of high marks and excellence in this challenge and I noted how difficult it was for me to vote this challenge. I did not vote one picture below a 5. I was looking forward to and am grateful and thankful for all people who make an effort to be candid and honest in their observations. More comments are surely better than silence. As of today I still have to go through all the other entries and read all comments from all participants, as I usually do. And I thank all those who do make the effort. I welcome comments that incite reaction, there should be more of them. I especially encourage entries that incite reaction. There is inherent value in all expression, as the human NEED to be expressive is often so very personal and necessary and not always intended to be pleasing.
"This results in two camps".
I don't see it that way. Each person commenting has had his/her own personal reaction. I take umbrage to being placed, categorized and assumed to be understood without a personal conversation. I don't want to be. I am sensitive because I am gifted and creative.....OVERLY creative...I can barely function anymore in today's fast paced, ever changing, stressful society.......(how's THAT for honesty?) I could be brutally honest, but I wasn't raised that way, and I know in my time I have paid dearly for being inappropriate and judgmental in my younger "daze". As we all know, political and aesthetic camps exist in the art world and it can be more cut throat and incestuous than inside the beltway. Having participated in the academic and business art worlds of Boston, New York and Philadelphia, I've witnessed criticism and opinion that might make everyone's eye lids and ears here burn, itch and curl backwards. I could be horribly prejudiced, highbrowed and exclusionary, like many of the professors I had in art school. I could be a recorder, voyeur, exhibitionist, an interpreter and an artist. But perhaps because I am female and have been an educator myself, I have a strong instinct to protect, understand, empathize and guard the vulnerable and sensitive. It's in my nature.
And geez.....the Meatmen..... they are 55+ now lol.....Geez. Ya had to post THAT song. I spent the first year of my life sleeping in a crib in leg braces. Too funny.....lol.
To each his own.
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02/25/2014 11:15:17 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by LoVi:
"Obviously ubique is a giant asset to the sight, providing insightful comments"
No question here. And I thank ubique for his participation. I was the first to welcome ubique's proclamation of high marks and excellence in this challenge and I noted how difficult it was for me to vote this challenge. I did not vote one picture below a 5. I was looking forward to and am grateful and thankful for all people who make an effort to be candid and honest in their observations. More comments are surely better than silence. As of today I still have to go through all the other entries and read all comments from all participants, as I usually do. And I thank all those who do make the effort. I welcome comments that incite reaction, there should be more of them. I especially encourage entries that incite reaction. There is inherent value in all expression, as the human NEED to be expressive is often so very personal and necessary and not always intended to be pleasing.
"This results in two camps".
I don't see it that way. Each person commenting has had his/her own personal reaction. I take umbrage to being placed, categorized and assumed to be understood without a personal conversation. I don't want to be. I am sensitive because I am gifted and creative.....OVERLY creative...I can barely function anymore in today's fast paced, ever changing, stressful society.......(how's THAT for honesty?) I could be brutally honest, but I wasn't raised that way, and I know in my time I have paid dearly for being inappropriate and judgmental in my younger "daze". As we all know, political and aesthetic camps exist in the art world and it can be more cut throat and incestuous than inside the beltway. Having participated in the academic and business art worlds of Boston, New York and Philadelphia, I've witnessed criticism and opinion that might make everyone's eye lids and ears here burn, itch and curl backwards. I could be horribly prejudiced, highbrowed and exclusionary, like many of the professors I had in art school. I could be a recorder, voyeur, exhibitionist, an interpreter and an artist. But perhaps because I am female and have been an educator myself, I have a strong instinct to protect, understand, empathize and guard the vulnerable and sensitive. It's in my nature.
And geez.....the Meatmen..... they are 55+ now lol.....Geez. Ya had to post THAT song. I spent the first year of my life sleeping in a crib in leg braces. Too funny.....lol.
To each his own. |
I removed my post because I feel it was, ironically, being mis-interpreted as being insensitive, yet maybe it was.
I see where you are coming from, and my post was an unsuccessful attempt at saying I see two sides to the debate, and I straddle the line, but ultimately that which may make us uncomfortable may be necessary.
Message edited by author 2014-02-25 11:15:46. |
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02/25/2014 11:24:48 AM · #71 |
| Paul, your post was absolutely well worth the read. I question the last sentence though...;-D |
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02/25/2014 11:40:52 AM · #72 |
I did not say you are insensitive. I said I am overly sensitive...in a good way. If you need me to remove my 'quoting you' comment/reaction I will do so in respect to your decision to do so for the sake of other's....not for me. I am fine with it.
Life's ironies are what make things interesting and actually connect us all more. Or at least that is the way I take it.
I'm all about observing all sorts of things. I usually go with a gut reaction and then intellectualize it, or try to understand it, but ultimately I admit I remain ambivalent or almost hypocritical with many of my thoughts, tastes and preferences. One day I like the Waltons, the next I can "get" the messages and expression of Tescoe Vee. Even though he readily admits he doesn't personally body slam and kill people. He seemingly presents as just more of a perve than a readily violent guy. (HE was a school teacher!....lol...not sure if I would have wanted him as my teacher....but then again...maybe he was the best some ever had.)
A steady diet of either doesn't suit me.
A comment like ubique made has parts of which are sadly true but I am entitled to my honest reactions.
No worries, if we were all just comfortable there wouldn't be growth. I am constantly at odds in a comfort zone! |
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02/25/2014 11:49:26 AM · #73 |
| It was a good post, Paul. I wish you'd repost it. Hopefully you saved it off. Anyway, it really got to the heart of the matter here. And the punk rock analogy was a good one. |
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02/25/2014 12:07:26 PM · #74 |
| Just for the record...I had NOTHING to do with him removing his post. It was good. I welcome it. It was someone else protecting someone else's feelings. I think he should put it back too. |
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02/25/2014 12:31:32 PM · #75 |
after biting my tongue to bits reading through some of the posts, it's pretty clear to me that the original intent of this thread has become lost in the self-perpetuating discussion it has spawned.
nobody here is right, and nobody here is wrong, at least not 100% in either camp.
As happens so often here (hundreds of times per week, really), an image is presented to us all for our voting and potential commenting. As happens in a small percent of those base images, a real, thought-provoking, honest comment was left praising the image, but at the same time being critical of a facet of it that hits close to home for someone else. No offense was intended in the leaving of the comment, and yet it still happened. This is not the fault of the photographer, the commenter or the person who took offense. Each had a very real and legitimate reason for what they did/said/felt, and they are entirely independant. They Should stay that way as nothing was personal or singled out.
The OP asked "how good is this comment". not "do you think it's bad? should i be offended?" i originally took this as a praise on such an honest and well formed comment, and I see it the same even now.
Paul, I have never yet been in the circumstances that would allow me to capture something that would illicit such a response from you, and I honestly hope that some day I do - from anybody really, but honestly, especially from you. Please do not stop your comments, they are more valued by some than digital ribbons, even when they are on other peoples images. It can shine a light on things unseen by others, give a new perspective to those who have already seen but with their own world-view, and spark meaningful discussions and the sharing of ideas. Regardless, your thoughts on a presented piece of art (because that's what these images are at the end of the day) are correct because it's what you see and feel when you take time to look at them.
Wendy, I think you are an absolutely amazing photographer and I am sure that your mother was a wonderful lady, but she was not the subject of the photo nor was she directly singled out. I too am an overweight North American with an overweight mother who would wear anything that her grandchildren gave her, proudly, so believe me when I say that I empathize with what you said. As others have said, and you have acknowledged, this isn't personal to anybody here and as such should not be taken that way.
And after typing all this out, i'm not sure if i still even want to post this because I don't want to take a chance on rocking a settling boat since the attention has unforutnately gone elsewhere. That said, if things continue on the path to total derailment, it's probably best to lock this down before that happens. |
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