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02/24/2014 12:41:58 PM · #26 |
 <-- fat American gulping down popcorn, swilling beer and being entertained. |
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02/24/2014 12:42:44 PM · #27 |
ubique is giving his interpretation of what he thinks the photograph is saying. political correctness does not apply here.
Personally, I wish people mocked me for being obese. Maybe I would have lost some weight and not have the health problems that I have now. |
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02/24/2014 12:44:15 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm one who has always been on ubique's side on the let's pick on ubique sessions.
This one, I'm just disappointed. I thought he was better than that and didn't give in to stereotypes and didn't judge without knowing.
That's why I bothered.
Too many people don't stand up for what they believe in when other people are being put down. I'm not going to be one of them. |
But he's not judging the individuals, he wouldn't presume to do that. HE'S JUDGING THE IMAGE! "This is really a very funny, savage indictment of a certain prominent wedge of modern western life." |
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02/24/2014 12:48:42 PM · #29 |
Oh Lev!!!! You truly have outdone yourself on this one!
A Blue +  Posthumous Blue + Crackling Comment from  Ubique + Lively Comment Thread!!!
BRAVO!!!!
Dang! I confess...I live in deep envy!
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02/24/2014 12:49:45 PM · #30 |
To make the comment:
This is really a very funny, savage indictment of a certain prominent wedge of modern western life (I'd say American life, but you'd like my comment even less if I did). The obesity to the point of immobility; the silly, pampered, yapping dogs; the dreadfully tacky sunshades; the truly awful Disney World school of architecture … all wrapped up in a fountain of flaccid-looking bubbles cascading towards a bewildered kid who himself appears to be already on the road to double-wide pants. It's a scarcely credible celebration of gross indulgence and delusion.
It must be what he sees.
If that's what he sees -- that's what he sees.
I found it disappointing and sad that he does. How many of you saw it that way? And what is your opinion of the people. If you don't start with a low opinion of this, I doubt that you would come to the same commentary.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 12:50:25. |
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02/24/2014 12:52:44 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I'm one who has always been on ubique's side on the let's pick on ubique sessions.
This one, I'm just disappointed. I thought he was better than that and didn't give in to stereotypes and didn't judge without knowing.
That's why I bothered.
Too many people don't stand up for what they believe in when other people are being put down. I'm not going to be one of them. |
But he's not judging the individuals, he wouldn't presume to do that. HE'S JUDGING THE IMAGE! "This is really a very funny, savage indictment of a certain prominent wedge of modern western life." |
But the comment specifically discusses the individuals in the photograph, their dogs, and what they are wearing.....so yes, it does 'feel' like a judgment.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 12:54:33. |
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02/24/2014 12:55:01 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I found it disappointing and sad that he does. How many of you saw it that way? And what is your opinion of the people. If you don't start with a low opinion of this, I doubt that you would come to the same commentary. |
I don't see it that way. I can't, because I'm inside the context of being an American. But his way of seeing it is not hard to fathom. I'm rarely interested in social commentary, so for me it was mostly an absurdist piece, but ubique speaks very well to the backdrop of the piece, the culture that makes it possible. And btw, when one speaks culturally, the way ubique does in this case, he is not condemning individuals... he is damning the culture that created them. Seeing some of that culture close at hand, I can't blame him for that. |
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02/24/2014 01:02:25 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I found it disappointing and sad that he does. How many of you saw it that way? And what is your opinion of the people. If you don't start with a low opinion of this, I doubt that you would come to the same commentary. |
I don't see it that way. I can't, because I'm inside the context of being an American. But his way of seeing it is not hard to fathom. I'm rarely interested in social commentary, so for me it was mostly an absurdist piece, but ubique speaks very well to the backdrop of the piece, the culture that makes it possible. And btw, when one speaks culturally, the way ubique does in this case, he is not condemning individuals... he is damning the culture that created them. Seeing some of that culture close at hand, I can't blame him for that. |
I completely agree with that when you step back and look at our society as a whole/globally.....but when it seems that a comment is targeting two individuals (because that who is in the image) and, especially if you, can relate to those individuals (I can because of my grandma)....then the comment seems more personnel. I realize that the comment was just an observation....however I think some of us have personnel stories that can relate to these two ladies, and that is when emotions begin to surface, and the comment is no longer taken as just a 'global' view on our society. That is the problem when you make these types of comments.....it feels as though "if you could walk in my shoes for one day" you may feel different about the scene.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 13:04:05. |
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02/24/2014 01:05:26 PM · #34 |
Maybe because I'm from the U.S. I didn't see it the same way but if that's how people in other parts of the world see it then so be it. My wife has relatives in Bordeaux France that came to N.Y. a few years ago to visit. They spent 5 days in Manhattan then they spent a day with us before heading to another relatives house.
The first thing I asked them was "How do you like New york" The first thing they said was "I can't believe how fat people are in the U.S.". I didn't get upset that's just how they felt. |
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02/24/2014 01:07:40 PM · #35 |
It was a sharp comment, but he isn't talking about the "people" but what the image was saying -- the statement all the elements in the image made together. Not who these people are, and certainly not condemning them personally. It has become hard for us to separate ideas from people, and I think that is why the offence has been taken. If it was me in the photo, I might feel a bit hurt by the comment, but I also would recognize that ubique doesn't know me and he can't possibly have a valid opinion of me personally because of that fact.
Still, a great image, and a superb comment in my opinion, and I also preferred it in colour. |
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02/24/2014 01:11:36 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Maybe because I'm from the U.S. I didn't see it the same way but if that's how people in other parts of the world see it then so be it. My wife has relatives in Bordeaux France that came to N.Y. a few years ago to visit. They spent 5 days in Manhattan then they spent a day with us before heading to another relatives house.
The first thing I asked them was "How do you like New york" The first thing they said was "I can't believe how fat people are in the U.S.". I didn't get upset that's just how they felt. |
Yes, your right, again that is a global observation of our society as a whole. It becomes different when someone were to say "Your fat, you look stupid in those clothes, and your dogs are ridiculous"......when it becomes personal it changes. I think some of us are relating to those two women with the experiences we have had in our lives....and then, it becomes personal. My grandma was one of those individuals. In fact, the lady with the wand reminds me of her and how wonderful of a lady she was....despite all her struggles in life. She was on steroids that made her gain a ton of water weight to the point of being immobile in her later years.....so I am relating to her on a very personal level.
ETA: However, I do want to add that I appreciate comments that are bold, and the commenter has taken the time to make his oberservations....it gets us talking and makes this place interesting.
Message edited by Bear_Music - confusing typos. |
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02/24/2014 01:16:44 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I found it disappointing and sad that he does. How many of you saw it that way? And what is your opinion of the people. If you don't start with a low opinion of this, I doubt that you would come to the same commentary. |
I don't see it that way. I can't, because I'm inside the context of being an American. But his way of seeing it is not hard to fathom. I'm rarely interested in social commentary, so for me it was mostly an absurdist piece, but ubique speaks very well to the backdrop of the piece, the culture that makes it possible. And btw, when one speaks culturally, the way ubique does in this case, he is not condemning individuals... he is damning the culture that created them. Seeing some of that culture close at hand, I can't blame him for that. |
I think the key is that as American's living in the great melting pot of the world we see these stereo types all around us everyday. Ever been to Walmart? Piggly Wiggly? Some are funny, some are sad, but most are true. I cannot speak for people in other parts of the world. Personal story that will make you laugh and maybe understand. When I was very young and older child showed me how to shoot the bird. Now most of you get what I mean. I got in trouble not knowing the true meaning behind the gesture and showed the principle of my elementary school. My father called him to explain, the whole time my mother was in the back ground yelling he could not have shot a bird he does not have a gun. She's Japanese and from a culture that did not at the time even consider that a gesture. Many Many years ago. |
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02/24/2014 01:19:20 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by njsabs:
ETA: However, I do want to add that I appreciate comments that are bold, and the commenter has taken the time to make his oberservatins....it gets us talking and makes this place interesting. |
absolutely. I can see exactly where the comment is coming from. I'm surprised and disappointed in who it was coming from. Simply because the making assumptions as to the dog, the hats, the bubbles, the child, and the culture all based on what he sees in the two women was surprising and disappointing. I was a very shallow look at an interesting, intimate scene. The easy look. The stereotypical look. |
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02/24/2014 01:29:06 PM · #39 |
I view street photography as an art form, not journalism of any kind (including paparazzi style). And so it should be considered as such, IMO. Indeed we do not know these women, and it's great that we don't. They very well may be what Vivien imagined. Or not. In my photo they are anonymous actors in this theatre play called street life. This play to a large degree is choreographed and directed by the photographer himself - through composition, timing, etc. When I take a street photo, I am creating a story. Often this story exists just for a fraction of a second when the image "condenses", and then disappears again without trace. The result may be not very kind to the actors, but art is not kind. Robert Frank was not kind, neither was Winogrand himself.
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 13:30:01. |
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02/24/2014 01:33:16 PM · #40 |
| The 2004 movie "Crash" comes to mind when reading this forum. I wasn't offended by Paul's comment. This is what came to mind when he saw the image. Would be a boring place if we agreed all the time. |
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02/24/2014 01:44:32 PM · #41 |
OK I realise now that I have seriously misjudged the nature of my audience with the comment.. I thought ... well, never mind what I thought, because it's my own disappointment and not yours. I'm sorry. I won't make any more comments that someone might find offensive.
Best if we let this matter lie now. I've learned my lesson . |
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02/24/2014 01:46:30 PM · #42 |
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02/24/2014 02:00:36 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by ubique:
OK I realise now that I have seriously misjudged the nature of my audience with the comment.. I thought ... well, never mind what I thought, because it's my own disappointment and not yours. I'm sorry. I won't make any more comments that someone might find offensive.
Best if we let this matter lie now. I've learned my lesson . |
Your audience was the photographer -- who found the comment helpful. It should end there. Everyone else is just making noise. You have nothing to be sorry for. |
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02/24/2014 02:00:37 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by ubique:
OK I realise now that I have seriously misjudged the nature of my audience with the comment.. I thought ... well, never mind what I thought, because it's my own disappointment and not yours. I'm sorry. I won't make any more comments that someone might find offensive.
Best if we let this matter lie now. I've learned my lesson . |
You saw a photo and expressed what you saw. We all see things differently. When we look at a photograph we interpret what we see and express that through our own words. Impossible for us all to have the same take on a image.
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02/24/2014 02:01:41 PM · #45 |
Just something to think about...
Originally posted by a very wise man from the first century:
It is absolutely clear that you have all been called to live a free life. Just make sure that you don’t use this freedom as an excuse to do whatever you want to do and destroy your freedom or the freedom of others. Rather, use your freedom to serve one another in love; that’s how freedom grows. For everyone love's themselves wholeheartedly. Love others in the same way you love yourself. That’s an act of true freedom. If you bite and ravage each other, watch out, in no time at all you will be annihilating each other, and where will your precious freedom be then? |
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02/24/2014 02:02:20 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Martyrdom, nice. |
No, you misinterpret my concession. I mean that I do accept that there are limits of veracity beyond which some members, including some for whom I have considerable respect, will not go. That's fair enough. In spite of my patchy record, I genuinely don't wish to offend. |
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02/24/2014 02:59:11 PM · #47 |
The comment was just that a comment!! it is simply someone expressing what they see in the photo.....the back story is irrelevant, you can only comment on what you see!
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!!
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02/24/2014 03:27:32 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 15:28:24. |
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02/24/2014 03:31:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
Originally posted by Stagolee:
..........and you wonder why people keep complaining that they have few comments on a challenge entry! Some people here only want to hear happy, positive and nice things......not the truth!! |
People primarily want comments to help them improve their photography skills. How does a comment like this improve photography skills?
Tim |
Not my people. |
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02/24/2014 03:36:56 PM · #50 |
Holy mockturtle, it was just a comment. Nobody needs to defend it, or the commenter. And how presumptuous to do so. The fact that the comment has been singled out for both praise and blame shows how trenchant it was.
Is it offensive, I wonder, to point out that obesity is a real problem in the U.S.? This is not the same as saying that overweight people are worthy of ridicule. If there is so much righteousness here on this puny thread why is there not more in the public sector working for solutions, naming causes?
Message edited by author 2014-02-24 15:38:01. |
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<-- fat American gulping down popcorn, swilling beer and being entertained.
