Another school shooting - DPChallenge Forums

12/14/2012 11:49:50 PM · #101

Is this an attempt at lightening the mood? If so, I'm sorry to say its a poor attempt given the gravity of the situation.

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

These children and adults died at school.

School should be... outlawed. Very dangerous.

12/14/2012 11:49:57 PM · #102

Originally posted by bhuge:

Originally posted by LydiaToo:
These children and adults died at school.

School should be... outlawed. Very dangerous.

Same with the mentally ill, they should be... outlawed. Very dangerous.

Guns are here.

People who are mentally ill are... here.

WHY in the WORLD would I want to be in a world where mentally ill people have guns and... I DON'T?

Seems "crazy" to me. *grin*

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12/14/2012 11:59:24 PM · #103

Originally posted by blindjustice:

People thinking the flawed thought that "if more people had guns, less of these mass shootings would happen"
This case is a perfect example, should the principal have been armed that would have stopped this? That is absurd.

We already know how that would work in a school setting: some potential to cut a big massacre short (assuming the prospective hero happens to have the gun loaded and readily available), along with enormous potential for frequent smaller shootings, accidents and friendly crossfire mishaps in the first scenario. In other words, a REALLY bad idea that ignores the whole reason for prohibiting guns from school in the first place.

ambaker

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

12/15/2012 12:07:49 AM · #104

Originally posted by scalvert:

Well said on a Facebook post: "If your first reaction to shootings is to think "Oh shit, Obama/liberals are going to try to take our guns!" your priorities as a human being SUCK."

Shannon,

I understand your feelings. It is a pretty raw moment for us all. However, insults are not what are needed at this time by anyone. Especially when coming from the SC. While not stated as the opinion of the SC, you do represent the SC every time you post alongside your avatar.

To the rest of the posters,

Again, there are a lot of raw feelings. This is not the place, or the time to be baiting one another. There are dead children, and grieving families. They should not be used as your personal weapons to push your agendas.

12/15/2012 12:08:48 AM · #105

Originally posted by PGerst:

Is this an attempt at lightening the mood? If so, I'm sorry to say its a poor attempt given the gravity of the situation.

Originally posted by LydiaToo:
These children and adults died at school.

School should be... outlawed. Very dangerous.

Uhhh... no.

I have the gravity of the situation well in mind,

pgerst.

People... real people ... hid in a closet... children... very young CHILDREN hid in their classroom bathroom... while their teacher told them that complete silence was imperative... because... someone wanted to KILL THEM. Someone wanted to KILL THEM ... those little children that she was responsible for... that their parents TRUSTED her with each day.

I am NOT taking this lightly.

I WISH that teacher had been allowed to have a gun as the killer did. I'm sure those children did, too. That teacher BOWED UP and would not come out even, after the shooting was silenced, when the POLICE asked her to. She wanted proof that the "cops" were "cops". She continued to try to protect the 6-7 year olds that were stacked on top of the toilet so they could all fit into the bathroom that she had quietly commanded that they go into.

Do you not think that that teacher wanted a gun then? She heard the shooting... she knew that she and all of the children she was comforting in that little classroom bathroom were going to die. She was sure of it, yet still... she took each child by the face when they began to cry after her telling them that they needed to be "completely silent"... and told her that it would "all be okay". She was afraid for her life.

And you're telling me that it is better for her to have no gun... while the killer had a gun?

Ask any parent of any child who was MURDERED at that school today if they were content that their child's teacher had no gun while the murderer had one. I wonder what they'd say.

I wonder what YOU'd say if that was YOU're child and you had a choice to say whether the person protecting YOUR child from a person with a gun ... should also have a gun.

12/15/2012 12:10:48 AM · #106

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

The stabbings in China could certainly have been avoided. WHY is there no knife control?

All 22 students survived the attack, but since you asked, "China was hit by a spate of knife and cleaver attacks that targeted school children in 2010. A number of measures were introduced at the time, including... a regulation requiring people to register with their national ID cards when buying large knives."

12/15/2012 12:11:14 AM · #107

Why not? Why wait until things calm down? Then, everyone gets passive, the moment passes, discussion continue about everything else. Then, the news hits again, another school massacre. Now is the right time...when emotion are high, when this is ringing heavily in everyone's ears.

It so easy to say, "lets talk about this later". That's part of the problem with this society. "We'll deal with it later". Never happens.

Originally posted by ambaker:

There are dead children, and grieving families. They should not be used as your personal weapons to push your agendas.

12/15/2012 12:15:03 AM · #108

I think history answers this quite well.

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

And you're telling me that it is better for her to have no gun... while the killer had a gun?

12/15/2012 12:15:44 AM · #109

Originally posted by PGerst:

I ask, if gun laws can prevent that.....is it really all that bad?

Originally posted by SEG:
I'm ready to get hammered here by the people that do not own a gun or believe that no one should.

I truly wish that they could but gun laws cannot prevent this from happening. It can only perpetuate it. This country has gone to far to turn around without dangerous and sometimes fatal repercussions.

12/15/2012 12:19:00 AM · #110

Sadly, I think what you said is very true. Not only with respect to gun laws, but many different things.

Originally posted by SEG:

12/15/2012 12:19:57 AM · #111

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by blindjustice:
People thinking the flawed thought that "if more people had guns, less of these mass shootings would happen"
This case is a perfect example, should the principal have been armed that would have stopped this? That is absurd.

We already know how that would work in a school setting: some potential to cut a big massacre short (assuming the prospective hero happens to have the gun loaded and readily available), along with enormous potential for frequent smaller shootings, accidents and friendly crossfire mishaps in the first scenario. In other words, a REALLY bad idea that ignores the whole reason for prohibiting guns from school in the first place.

But guns ARE prohibited in schools and in this case 28 people lost there life. Good thing they were prohibited right? No

12/15/2012 12:19:58 AM · #112

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by LydiaToo:
The stabbings in China could certainly have been avoided. WHY is there no knife control?

All 22 students survived the attack, but since you asked, "China was hit by a spate of knife and cleaver attacks that targeted school children in 2010. A number of measures were introduced at the time, including... a regulation requiring people to register with their national ID cards when buying large knives."

I'm feeling so much safer now that the knives I cook with will no longer attack me from my kitchen drawers whilst I sleep.

No. HUMAN WILL is what is at issue here. It's NOT knives or guns or ropes or package openers.

There is NO way to stop someone who wants to come into your home and kill you... no locks... no security system... no nothing.

There is nothing that will stop people who want to kill you.

They WILL find a way.

There are rocks on the ground. There is the very glass in the windows you think will protect you that they can use.

Please, PLEASE let us protect ourselves from them.

Why do you want to take away the honest folk's protection?

At least let them have the stuff that the bad guys will ALWAYS have... no matter what the law is. If it's been invented, it's out there. And you can be assured that the ones who want to use it for harm already have it.

Why don't you want to be allowed to have it, too?

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12/15/2012 12:20:46 AM · #113

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

I WISH that teacher had been allowed to have a gun as the killer did.

The attacker was wearing a bulletproof vest, and you'd introduce more flying bullets to the classroom. Ask any parent of any child who was murdered today if they would feel safer with guns all over the school in lieu of even discussing ways to reduce the threat of a shooter coming to school in the first place.

ambaker

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

12/15/2012 12:24:08 AM · #114

Originally posted by PGerst:

I am not saying the debate does not need to be had. I'm not saying wait until later. I am simply asking that in this place, in this forum, on this day, to not do what we are doing here... Children are dead, their young bodies barely cold, and we sit here insulting each other and bickering. But I see that it doesn't really matter. Take your cheap shots at each other, for me it smacks of a certain Kansas Preacher who protests at military funerals.

I leave you all to it...

12/15/2012 12:25:35 AM · #115

Prohibiting something is not the same prevention.

Prohibiting is telling someone they can't do something.

Preventing is removing the means for someone to do that act.

Originally posted by SEG:

But guns ARE prohibited in schools and in this case 28 people lost there life. Good thing they were prohibited right? No

12/15/2012 12:27:58 AM · #116

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by LydiaToo:
I WISH that teacher had been allowed to have a gun as the killer did.

The attacker was wearing a bulletproof vest, and you'd introduce more flying bullets to the classroom. Ask any parent of any child who was murdered today if they would feel safer with guns all over the school in lieu of even discussing ways to reduce the threat of a shooter coming to school in the first place.

You really do not understand the concept of legal gun ownership.

I would just like you to answer 1 simple question. Of course this is hypothetical but let's say as I stated in a previous post that the teacher or a teacher down the hall did have a gun in their desk and took this maniac down preventing the death of these children. Would you call this person a hero or ridicule them for responsibly handling a firearm.

12/15/2012 12:28:45 AM · #117

Originally posted by scalvert:

12/15/2012 12:29:28 AM · #118

Originally posted by PGerst:

Prohibiting something is not the same prevention.

Prohibiting is telling someone they can't do something.

Preventing is removing the means for someone to do that act.

Originally posted by SEG:

But guns ARE prohibited in schools and in this case 28 people lost there life. Good thing they were prohibited right? No

But at this stage in American culture you cannot possibly remove the means from the criminals. It's a very sad truth.

12/15/2012 12:31:16 AM · #119

Originally posted by SEG:

gun laws cannot prevent this from happening. It can only perpetuate it.

This assertion has been proven false many times, including a recent major effort in Rio.

Originally posted by SEG:

But guns ARE prohibited in schools and in this case 28 people lost there life. Good thing they were prohibited right?

Therefore someone dying from a high speed crash is proof that speed limit laws have no value? Weak straw man argument. A law requiring guns to be locked up may have prevented the whole scenario.

12/15/2012 12:31:35 AM · #120

Originally posted by scalvert:

Shannon, are you saying that if you had known the day before... that this 20-year-old was going to show up in your room to try to kill you and your kindergartners and... knew that you were to be totally responsible for the lives of those twenty kindergartners in a room with no escape, are you saying that... even if you knew he was going to have a bullet-proof vest on... that you still would not want to have a gun to protect those children?

If that is so, then... I have no respect for you whatsoever.

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/15/2012 12:32:29 AM · #121

Originally posted by WiseWords:

There is nothing that will stop people who want to kill you.

Exactly. There is no need to add more guns to the mix. :) I don't want guns around my kids at school, certainly not in the classrooms. (We could use more crossing guards.)

To all, why bother with this conversation? It always ends the same way.

12/15/2012 12:33:33 AM · #122

Originally posted by PGerst:

Agree...and all this does is escalate the entire situation to the next level.

Attacker has a gun, so the teacher gets a gun.
Since the teacher has a gun, the attacker gets a vest.
Since the attacker has a vest, the teacher's gun is useless, the teacher gets a vest and a bigger gun.
And on....and on...and on...

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by LydiaToo:
I WISH that teacher had been allowed to have a gun as the killer did.

The attacker was wearing a bulletproof vest, and you'd introduce more flying bullets to the classroom. Ask any parent of any child who was murdered today if they would feel safer with guns all over the school in lieu of even discussing ways to reduce the threat of a shooter coming to school in the first place.

I don't believe this to be true. There are many parts of the body that are still exposed. Too many people think that a gun only turns a situation into a wild shootout. That's what you see in movies and in drive bys. Yes it happens but outlawing guns in these places only tells the criminals, "come in, no ones packing here, take what you want, kill who you want."

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/15/2012 12:36:37 AM · #123

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

Originally posted by scalvert:

The attacker was wearing a bulletproof vest, and you'd introduce more flying bullets to the classroom. Ask any parent of any child who was murdered today if they would feel safer with guns all over the school in lieu of even discussing ways to reduce the threat of a shooter coming to school in the first place.

Shannon, are you saying that if you had known the day before... that this 20-year-old was going to show up in your room to try to kill you and your kindergartners and... knew that you were to be totally responsible for the lives of those twenty kindergartners in a room with no escape, are you saying that... even if you knew he was going to have a bullet-proof vest on... that you still would not want to have a gun to protect those children?

Can Shannon pass and state that if he knew he would just close up shop that day? ;)

Brick walls and pounding heads. Neither of you will prevail.

12/15/2012 12:36:42 AM · #124

This makes absolutely no sense. If you knew all this was going to happen then you have the perfect means to prevent it altogether.

But, to maybe put a little value back into your "argument", think about it.

The attacker and teacher has a gun
The attacker has a vest
Who do you think is going to win here?
Now, the attacker has a vest and TWO guns.

This why what you are saying is such a very very bad idea.

Originally posted by LydiaToo: