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11/07/2012 03:03:29 PM · #301 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
This class warfare is part of the problem. So many people are brainwashed to believe rich people got there by stealing from the poor and are just evil. Freaking hilarious how skewed people's views are. It's like a country of children who are all jealous of the kids who have better toys. Grow up. |
Dear god. This must be one of the most ridiculous and inane bits i've read in this increasingly ridiculous thread. I think we could just close the thread here as it's reached the zenith of stupid. |
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11/07/2012 03:05:02 PM · #302 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by chazoe:
This class warfare is part of the problem. So many people are brainwashed to believe rich people got there by stealing from the poor and are just evil. Freaking hilarious how skewed people's views are. It's like a country of children who are all jealous of the kids who have better toys. Grow up. |
Dear god. This must be one of the most ridiculous and inane bits i've read in this increasingly ridiculous thread. I think we could just close the thread here as it's reached the zenith of stupid. |
Thanks for making it personal. Please tell me what is stupid about it. |
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11/07/2012 03:12:21 PM · #303 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Thanks for making it personal. |
My apologies. I posted quickly and was probably slightly harsh.
Originally posted by chazoe:
Please tell me what is stupid about it. |
Ah, do i have to? Try reading back what you wrote and, perhaps as a game, imagine yourself as someone who is not brainwashed or a child or someone who thinks rich people are 'just evil' but who might hold a different view from you regarding wealth distribution and corporate tax.
Message edited by author 2012-11-07 15:12:40. |
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11/07/2012 03:13:20 PM · #304 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by chazoe:
This class warfare is part of the problem. So many people are brainwashed to believe rich people got there by stealing from the poor and are just evil. Freaking hilarious how skewed people's views are. It's like a country of children who are all jealous of the kids who have better toys. Grow up. |
Dear god. This must be one of the most ridiculous and inane bits i've read in this increasingly ridiculous thread. I think we could just close the thread here as it's reached the zenith of stupid. |
Thanks for making it personal. Please tell me what is stupid about it. |
The fact that your analysis isn't backed by data.
When taxes are lowered, I don't spend more money, and neither do the majority of the other 1%'ers. It's a flawed assessment of reality.
Message edited by author 2012-11-07 15:13:42. |
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11/07/2012 04:00:30 PM · #305 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Wealthy people build homes, buy more goods, call repairmen to fix things instead of doing it themselves, buy more cars and hire mechanics to fix them, etc....
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Middle class people do all of those things too. The advantage of having a healthy middle class, though, is that there are a lot more middle class people than wealthy people, so their building homes, buying goods, etc, has a much larger impact on the economy. Also, middle class and poor people tend to actually spend their money, instead of hoarding it. So putting money in the hands of the middle class and poor has more of effect on the economy as a whole. |
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11/07/2012 04:13:27 PM · #306 |
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by chazoe:
Wealthy people build homes, buy more goods, call repairmen to fix things instead of doing it themselves, buy more cars and hire mechanics to fix them, etc....
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Middle class people do all of those things too. The advantage of having a healthy middle class, though, is that there are a lot more middle class people than wealthy people, so their building homes, buying goods, etc, has a much larger impact on the economy. Also, middle class and poor people tend to actually spend their money, instead of hoarding it. So putting money in the hands of the middle class and poor has more of effect on the economy as a whole. |
I absolutely agree with you. And I know it'll be the middle class that ends up getting the shaft, it always is. But I also don't think you help out the middle class by raising taxes. It all comes down to jobs, and good jobs, and the creation of good jobs is never helped out by raising taxes on the wealthy. |
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11/07/2012 04:15:22 PM · #307 |
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by chazoe:
Wealthy people build homes, buy more goods, call repairmen to fix things instead of doing it themselves, buy more cars and hire mechanics to fix them, etc....
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Middle class people do all of those things too. The advantage of having a healthy middle class, though, is that there are a lot more middle class people than wealthy people, so their building homes, buying goods, etc, has a much larger impact on the economy. Also, middle class and poor people tend to actually spend their money, instead of hoarding it. So putting money in the hands of the middle class and poor has more of effect on the economy as a whole. |
Which is why the focus should be creating jobs, not trying to figure out who should contribute more. |
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11/07/2012 04:18:32 PM · #308 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Which is why the focus should be creating jobs, not trying to figure out who should contribute more. |
I would argue you need to do a little from all options. That way if you make a mistake on one, the other options have the potential to aid in the solution. Ignoring facets to this problems, and ways to alleviate it get no where fast. |
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11/07/2012 04:27:01 PM · #309 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Jobs aren't created by the wealthy. |
Now, now, some jobs are created by the wealthy ... stock traders, tax attorneys, lobbyists .... |
Wealthy people build homes, buy more goods, call repairmen to fix things instead of doing it themselves, buy more cars and hire mechanics to fix them, etc....
The wealthy create jobs whether or not they directly hire people.
This class warfare is part of the problem. So many people are brainwashed to believe rich people got there by stealing from the poor and are just evil. Freaking hilarious how skewed people's views are. It's like a country of children who are all jealous of the kids who have better toys. Grow up. |
Then explain how people making millions pay taxes at a lower rate than most middle class people do and why that's fair.
Look at the tax rates on the wealthy during the 1950's, one of the most proserous times in our country's history. Taxes on the wealthy topped out at 90%...they still made a lot of money, the world didn't stop spinning.
If you reap a greater reward from the liberties this coutry affords you, you should be prepared to pay back a bit more.
Message edited by author 2012-11-07 16:28:11. |
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11/07/2012 04:29:50 PM · #310 |
Originally posted by chazoe:
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by chazoe:
Wealthy people build homes, buy more goods, call repairmen to fix things instead of doing it themselves, buy more cars and hire mechanics to fix them, etc....
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Middle class people do all of those things too. The advantage of having a healthy middle class, though, is that there are a lot more middle class people than wealthy people, so their building homes, buying goods, etc, has a much larger impact on the economy. Also, middle class and poor people tend to actually spend their money, instead of hoarding it. So putting money in the hands of the middle class and poor has more of effect on the economy as a whole. |
I absolutely agree with you. And I know it'll be the middle class that ends up getting the shaft, it always is. But I also don't think you help out the middle class by raising taxes. It all comes down to jobs, and good jobs, and the creation of good jobs is never helped out by raising taxes on the wealthy. |
The myth is that the wealthy are "job creators" as if squirreling millions away in the Caymans creates jobs. It doesn't work that way. Trickle down economics is a lie. |
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11/07/2012 04:30:32 PM · #311 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Which is why the focus should be creating jobs, not trying to figure out who should contribute more. |
I would argue you need to do a little from all options. That way if you make a mistake on one, the other options have the potential to aid in the solution. Ignoring facets to this problems, and ways to alleviate it get no where fast. |
I don't disagree, however we already have a solid welfare system in place, we just dont have the revenue to fund it
The focus on the other aspects are misguided as well, no one looking at the cause. Why is healthcare expensive? Figure that out, make it more affordable because it doesn't cost so much, not creative ways to fund it.
Or how about instead of giving away an auto bailouts, take all those workers and pay them to do something else. How about instead of bailing out banks give it directly to the people to pay directly on their mortgage to get them out from being underwater.
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11/07/2012 04:35:12 PM · #312 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
[quote=chazoe]
The myth is that the wealthy are "job creators" as if squirreling millions away in the Caymans creates jobs. It doesn't work that way. Trickle down economics is a lie. |
Because redistribution works so well too.
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11/07/2012 04:41:24 PM · #313 |
Mike, I really don't understand all the talk about redistribution and figuring out who should pay more, etc.
Simple facts are tax cuts were put into place with the hope that it would lead to the creation of jobs. It didn't work. It's time to eliminate the tax cuts. What about that is redistribution or unfair? |
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11/07/2012 05:00:21 PM · #314 |
Nothing. If it work didnt I agree it's time to try something else. I just don't l agree with the mindset that let's keep taxing the wealthy because they can afford it.
I have never advocated trickle down, I know it doesn't work and the whole robin hood mentality needs to go too
It just spurs resentments on both sides.
Just because you are poor or underprivileged gives you no right to expect a handout from the rich.
Message edited by author 2012-11-07 17:01:33. |
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11/07/2012 05:05:27 PM · #315 |
Originally posted by bohemka:
Mike, I really don't understand all the talk about redistribution and figuring out who should pay more, etc.
Simple facts are tax cuts were put into place with the hope that it would lead to the creation of jobs. It didn't work. It's time to eliminate the tax cuts. What about that is redistribution or unfair? |
My opinion is to junk the tax code entirely. No deductions at all. Then go to a flat tax. Everyone pays the same precentage. Then have a national sales tax. It will make product a little more expensive. However, a rich guy buys more and in many cases it is expensive. The poor will be paying less because they buy less and could buy generic items instead of the more expensive.
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11/07/2012 05:06:36 PM · #316 |
oh I forgot to add...the sales tax should be value added tax. What you see on the pricetag is what you pay
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11/07/2012 05:09:39 PM · #317 |
| Flat taxes are unfair to the poor. I am against those. Just simplify the code and close the loopholes that are being exploited |
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11/07/2012 05:26:49 PM · #318 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Nothing. If it work didnt I agree it's time to try something else. I just don't l agree with the mindset that let's keep taxing the wealthy because they can afford it.
I have never advocated trickle down, I know it doesn't work and the whole robin hood mentality needs to go too
It just spurs resentments on both sides.
Just because you are poor or underprivileged gives you no right to expect a handout from the rich. |
How about a fair wage from the rich? Walmart ring any bells? "Critics claim the country's largest employer drags down American living standards by paying poverty-level wages and benefits." link Who do you think applies for medicaid and food stamps? And these people (the owners) are some of the richest in the world and got that way on the backs of the poor. |
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11/07/2012 05:48:45 PM · #319 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Nothing. If it work didnt I agree it's time to try something else. I just don't l agree with the mindset that let's keep taxing the wealthy because they can afford it.
I have never advocated trickle down, I know it doesn't work and the whole robin hood mentality needs to go too
It just spurs resentments on both sides.
Just because you are poor or underprivileged gives you no right to expect a handout from the rich. |
How about a fair wage from the rich? Walmart ring any bells? "Critics claim the country's largest employer drags down American living standards by paying poverty-level wages and benefits." link Who do you think applies for medicaid and food stamps? And these people (the owners) are some of the richest in the world and got that way on the backs of the poor. |
I try to explain how the poor pay for the rich (in these types of cases, not all) time and time again, but it doesn't get through to people that hold the rich on a pedestal and truly believe their profits were earned fair and square. Robin Hood gone awry. Rob from the poor and store in offshort bank accounts...
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11/07/2012 06:18:04 PM · #320 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Spork99:
[quote=chazoe]
The myth is that the wealthy are "job creators" as if squirreling millions away in the Caymans creates jobs. It doesn't work that way. Trickle down economics is a lie. |
Because redistribution works so well too. |
Through loopholes, unfair tax codes and otherwise gaming the system by those with the money and influence to do so, wealth has been "redistributed" in concentrated form to the so-called 1%, I'd agree that's not working |
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11/07/2012 07:09:02 PM · #321 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Spork99:
[quote=chazoe]
The myth is that the wealthy are "job creators" as if squirreling millions away in the Caymans creates jobs. It doesn't work that way. Trickle down economics is a lie. |
Because redistribution works so well too. |
Through loopholes, unfair tax codes and otherwise gaming the system by those with the money and influence to do so, wealth has been "redistributed" in concentrated form to the so-called 1%, I'd agree that's not working |
I like the loopholes, errr deduductions for children, mortgage interest, retirement savings, healthcare, the stuff that was what Romney was going to have to cut for his budget to work. It would have been poison to say it, It was bad not to as well.
What is not working is the low tax rates for the top earners, 15% limit oncapital gains, and lack of real estate tax teeth. Without those, we create modern day royalty, lack of upward mobility, and lots of bad candidates that try to buy elections. |
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11/07/2012 07:11:02 PM · #322 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Nothing. If it work didnt I agree it's time to try something else. I just don't l agree with the mindset that let's keep taxing the wealthy because they can afford it.
I have never advocated trickle down, I know it doesn't work and the whole robin hood mentality needs to go too
It just spurs resentments on both sides.
Just because you are poor or underprivileged gives you no right to expect a handout from the rich. |
How about a fair wage from the rich? Walmart ring any bells? "Critics claim the country's largest employer drags down American living standards by paying poverty-level wages and benefits." link Who do you think applies for medicaid and food stamps? And these people (the owners) are some of the richest in the world and got that way on the backs of the poor. |
I try to explain how the poor pay for the rich (in these types of cases, not all) time and time again, but it doesn't get through to people that hold the rich on a pedestal and truly believe their profits were earned fair and square. Robin Hood gone awry. Rob from the poor and store in offshort bank accounts... |
Isn't it amazing we almost had a president that wouldn't show his taxes, and surely had some cayman and Swiss accounts? |
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11/07/2012 07:56:15 PM · #323 |
| Ok, so we all agree the system is broken. |
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11/07/2012 08:04:05 PM · #324 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Ok, so we all agree the system is broken. |
Right, and the evidence shows that the system is broken in such a fashion as to unfairly advantage those who are already wealthy and to disadvantage those who are poor.
So, what do you think is the remedy for such unfairness? |
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11/07/2012 08:08:50 PM · #325 |
well to start, how is it unfair? (im not saying it isnt, just how do you think its unfair?)
Message edited by author 2012-11-07 20:09:06. |
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