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02/24/2012 03:35:26 PM · #226 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
The social tragedy? There are available, and handy, sizes of orange jumpsuits that fit 9 year old boys. |
Agreed there as well. When I was 9, they had to have one specially made. |
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02/24/2012 03:47:02 PM · #227 |
It is a sad reality that there are child sized jumpsuits... perhaps they were originally made for midgets? until the crime rate continued to rise.
The fact that there are actually children in jail is a tragedy. But that's where parenting, society, and common sense come in. Is there really anything that can be done to prevent this?
Think about it... back in the 50s and 60s, when parents whipped their children with switches and belts and anything they could get their hands on, children were far less likely to disobey their parents.
ETA: Not that violence is the answer. But children actually feared their parents... they KNEW the parents held the power and KNEW the consequences of their actions
Nowadays, a child threatens Social Services and a parent backs off.
SO many parents are AFRAID to discipline their child.
NOT ME. I am one of the few that actually will. And one of my kids mentioned ONE TIME, that they were going to call DSS. I told them, go right ahead. I will help you pack your bags. If you REALLY think that you will have it better with some strangers, go for it. Stopped them dead in their tracks and it hasn't been brought up since. lol
Message edited by author 2012-02-24 15:48:58.
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02/24/2012 03:48:03 PM · #228 |
Double post.
Message edited by author 2012-02-24 15:48:16.
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02/24/2012 05:17:49 PM · #229 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
The social tragedy? There are available, and handy, sizes of orange jumpsuits that fit 9 year old boys. |
Agreed there as well. When I was 9, they had to have one specially made. |
Why,  ART ROFLMAO, I thought you had one specially made and brought it with you.
:)
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02/24/2012 05:18:12 PM · #230 |
| I never feared my parents. I did, however, fear losing (not loosing) their respect. |
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02/24/2012 05:39:33 PM · #231 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I never feared my parents. I did, however, fear losing (not loosing) their respect. |
That's another thing... when I was growing up, the worst thing my parent could say is... "I'm disappointed in you". nowadays... kids shrug it off. Sad
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02/24/2012 11:13:46 PM · #232 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
For the record, the gun went off in the kid's backpack - he did not shoot her on purpose. ...so I guess guns do kill people. Or could. She will hopefully survive.
Tragic, yes. But I come down on the side of common sense and bigger problems that need solving - i.e. cars kill MANY more people, etc. |
But that gun, while unattended at the time it discharged, was loaded and left accessible through the actions or inactions of a person.
It's like leaving your car running with a kid in the back and blaming the car when the kid bumps into the shifter and puts the car into gear and drives through the house and into the pool. Who's at fault? The car? The person who left it running? The kid? |
I agree. I was being sarcastic. |
I know...I'm happy to play the straight man sometimes.
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02/24/2012 11:21:12 PM · #233 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Oh I agree 100% with the need to get a license! It's the moral responsibility to teach children not to play with loaded weapons we can't legislate.
Edit to add that I would hope responsible gun owners would not object to a licensing requirement. Is that a valid assumption? |
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "licensing requirement". In the past, some states or municipalities have used "licensing requirements" to effectively ban firearm purchases by making the process so onerous and time consuming.
There are different requirements to purchase different kinds of firearms. There are Federal requirements and each state will have different requirements. All of them require a check through NICS, which is a Federal database of people who aren't allowed to purchase firearms.
Here, to buy a long gun (i.e. rifle or shotgun) you have to be 18 and pass the NICS check.
To buy a pistol, for each purchase you have to go to the police station, apply and wait around while they take your ID and run you through a series of databases. Then they give you a purchase permit and you then have a limited time (10 days I think) to make the purchase and then at the POS they run you through the NICS check and fill out a part of the purchase permit and keep one to file with the state, you have a limited time to return to the police station and they take another portion of the completed purchase permit and you're supposed to retain the last bit for 60 days.
After all of that, you can carry the gun in the trunk, unloaded in a locked case separate from the ammo.
If you want to carry a loaded pistol in public, there's much more. A $100 8hr class in which you cover safe firearms handling and has a range portion and finally qualifying by demonstrating safe handling and minimum marksmanship. Then you get a certificate and you get to visit the county clerk who gives you an application which you take to the Sheriff's office so you can be fingerprinted for $40. Then you go back to the clerk's office and turn in your completed application along with another $100 application fee and go home to wait for the fingerprints and background check to come back and finally once all of your stuff is together, your application packet goes to the county Gun Board who reviews it...they can ask you to come to their meeting if they want to see who you are etc., but unless they have good reason, they MUST issue your permit. All of this can take 2-3 months IF you live in one of the faster counties. Some of the other counties deliberately drag their feet.
You still can't take your gun everywhere; schools, churches, bars, government buildings, courthouses etc are all off limits. You can't drink while carrying. It's not like driving a car where there's a 0.08% BAC limit. The limit is none. If you get pulled over or otherwise stopped by law enforcement, you have to tell them you're a permit holder and that you have your pistol, where it is etc.
Message edited by author 2012-02-24 23:58:50. |
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02/24/2012 11:24:58 PM · #234 |
Originally posted by dyridings:
It is a sad reality that there are child sized jumpsuits... perhaps they were originally made for midgets? until the crime rate continued to rise.
The fact that there are actually children in jail is a tragedy. But that's where parenting, society, and common sense come in. Is there really anything that can be done to prevent this?
Think about it... back in the 50s and 60s, when parents whipped their children with switches and belts and anything they could get their hands on, children were far less likely to disobey their parents.
ETA: Not that violence is the answer. But children actually feared their parents... they KNEW the parents held the power and KNEW the consequences of their actions
Nowadays, a child threatens Social Services and a parent backs off.
SO many parents are AFRAID to discipline their child.
NOT ME. I am one of the few that actually will. And one of my kids mentioned ONE TIME, that they were going to call DSS. I told them, go right ahead. I will help you pack your bags. If you REALLY think that you will have it better with some strangers, go for it. Stopped them dead in their tracks and it hasn't been brought up since. lol |
my friend did the same thing she told her son, call 911 tell them to pick you up. leave with me everything that i bought, your cellphone, computer, cloths, games... none of it leaves with you and don't ask me to take you back.
he shut up real quick
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02/25/2012 12:39:25 AM · #235 |
There's no denying what happened is a shame and a tragedy, and a failure in parenting, and a failure of child protective services. Lets make parenting illegal, it obviously kills in the wrong hands. Lets make child protect services illegal, because it sometimes fails to protect.
I live in Seattle. I am familiar with the situation. Some of this thread has little to do with the facts of the matter. Maybe let the situation unfold, let the police do their work. let the justice system do its work.
Yes people commit murder, but guns do kill.
Yes people commit murder, but drugs do Kill.
Yes people commit murder, but sex trafficking does kill.
Yes people commit murder, but tainted food and drugs do kill.
Yes people commit murder, but cars do kill.
Frak, a camera in the wrong hands has killed. Let's take Kodachrome off the shelf ... oh wait, Kodak already did that.
For the record, I am an opponent of the constitutional amendment that grants the right to bear arms. It is not an amendment that could be ratified today. Because the world is different than when it was passed.
But for now, maybe lets enforce the laws regarding guns, sex trafficking, drug abuse, product liability, automotive safety. Let's save some children, some young adults, some ...
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02/25/2012 12:59:14 AM · #236 |
| Actually, I was thinking about this. We have made the world entirely too safe. We have too darn many people. We don't have enough jobs to go around and are rapidly using up our productive land. What we need are faster cars, drunker drivers, and way more people with loaded guns and hot tempers. Throw in a disease or two, a fire, a flood, possibly a famine. |
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02/25/2012 12:21:28 PM · #237 |
Originally posted by dyridings:
It is a sad reality that there are child sized jumpsuits... perhaps they were originally made for midgets? until the crime rate continued to rise.
The fact that there are actually children in jail is a tragedy. But that's where parenting, society, and common sense come in. Is there really anything that can be done to prevent this?
Think about it... back in the 50s and 60s, when parents whipped their children with switches and belts and anything they could get their hands on, children were far less likely to disobey their parents.
ETA: Not that violence is the answer. But children actually feared their parents... they KNEW the parents held the power and KNEW the consequences of their actions
Nowadays, a child threatens Social Services and a parent backs off.
SO many parents are AFRAID to discipline their child.
NOT ME. I am one of the few that actually will. And one of my kids mentioned ONE TIME, that they were going to call DSS. I told them, go right ahead. I will help you pack your bags. If you REALLY think that you will have it better with some strangers, go for it. Stopped them dead in their tracks and it hasn't been brought up since. lol |
Fear should not be confused with respect. They are different. Respect goes with you wherever you go. Fear only extends as far as you are afraid of being caught. Fear does not work in the long term unless it's so pervasive you have some neurotic child, which I don't think is what any parent wants.
The loss of the whipping isn't where parenting has gone wrong. It's the lack of time and care. It doesn't matter if you spank or use other forms of punishments, it matters that you care enough to consistently discipline a child. To pay attention to them and make sure they know you are there as a parent. Now we spend too much time on work and entertainment as opposed to cooking and eating together, spending time together as a family.
I was NEVER hit and I was the biggest goody-goody I knew. I 100% believe in rearing children without getting physical. It's completely unnecessary. If you use spanking the correct way (the steps of warning a kid, telling them what they did wrong, following through with the punishment, and reassuring them that you love them after, etc) you can replace the spaking with something else and it works the same. |
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02/25/2012 01:39:31 PM · #238 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Actually, I was thinking about this. We have made the world entirely too safe. We have too darn many people. We don't have enough jobs to go around and are rapidly using up our productive land. What we need are faster cars, drunker drivers, and way more people with loaded guns and hot tempers. Throw in a disease or two, a fire, a flood, possibly a famine. |
naw you just need one good pandemic to fix it all maybe a mutated prion disease that is transmitted by touch. that would do it.
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02/25/2012 05:04:42 PM · #239 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Actually, I was thinking about this. We have made the world entirely too safe. We have too darn many people. We don't have enough jobs to go around and are rapidly using up our productive land. What we need are faster cars, drunker drivers, and way more people with loaded guns and hot tempers. Throw in a disease or two, a fire, a flood, possibly a famine. |
naw you just need one good pandemic to fix it all maybe a mutated prion disease that is transmitted by touch. that would do it. |
Yeah, but that would lack variety. We'd need variety. A plague of locusts to start - think of the bug macro opportunities before starvation set in! |
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02/25/2012 06:23:17 PM · #240 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Actually, I was thinking about this. We have made the world entirely too safe. We have too darn many people. We don't have enough jobs to go around and are rapidly using up our productive land. What we need are faster cars, drunker drivers, and way more people with loaded guns and hot tempers. Throw in a disease or two, a fire, a flood, possibly a famine. |
naw you just need one good pandemic to fix it all maybe a mutated prion disease that is transmitted by touch. that would do it. |
Yeah, but that would lack variety. We'd need variety. A plague of locusts to start - think of the bug macro opportunities before starvation set in! |
ok but only if the locust are big enough to ride on and i get at least one picture of the moron that tries to ride one!!
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02/25/2012 11:39:59 PM · #241 |
| Guns don't really kill people, it's the bullets. Unless of course you bludgeon them to death with the gun! |
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02/27/2012 05:17:21 AM · #242 |
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02/27/2012 04:53:52 PM · #243 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by dyridings:
It is a sad reality that there are child sized jumpsuits... perhaps they were originally made for midgets? until the crime rate continued to rise.
The fact that there are actually children in jail is a tragedy. But that's where parenting, society, and common sense come in. Is there really anything that can be done to prevent this?
Think about it... back in the 50s and 60s, when parents whipped their children with switches and belts and anything they could get their hands on, children were far less likely to disobey their parents.
ETA: Not that violence is the answer. But children actually feared their parents... they KNEW the parents held the power and KNEW the consequences of their actions
Nowadays, a child threatens Social Services and a parent backs off.
SO many parents are AFRAID to discipline their child.
NOT ME. I am one of the few that actually will. And one of my kids mentioned ONE TIME, that they were going to call DSS. I told them, go right ahead. I will help you pack your bags. If you REALLY think that you will have it better with some strangers, go for it. Stopped them dead in their tracks and it hasn't been brought up since. lol |
Fear should not be confused with respect. They are different. Respect goes with you wherever you go. Fear only extends as far as you are afraid of being caught. Fear does not work in the long term unless it's so pervasive you have some neurotic child, which I don't think is what any parent wants.
The loss of the whipping isn't where parenting has gone wrong. It's the lack of time and care. It doesn't matter if you spank or use other forms of punishments, it matters that you care enough to consistently discipline a child. To pay attention to them and make sure they know you are there as a parent. Now we spend too much time on work and entertainment as opposed to cooking and eating together, spending time together as a family.
I was NEVER hit and I was the biggest goody-goody I knew. I 100% believe in rearing children without getting physical. It's completely unnecessary. If you use spanking the correct way (the steps of warning a kid, telling them what they did wrong, following through with the punishment, and reassuring them that you love them after, etc) you can replace the spaking with something else and it works the same. |
And some of us have neurotic children. Some people HAVE to instill fear, because no other form of punishment works. NOTHING. I know this from personal experience. No matter how hard we try, no matter what we do, no matter how many doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, hospitals we use, no matter how much time and effort in "talking" to our child, no matter how much we praise her for the good things she has done, she has problems. We cannot get through to her unless she is SCARED.
So yes, in some circumstances, fear is the only thing that works.
Every child is different, every child requires a different means of parenting. One of our children, you can look at a certain way, and instantly, he knows he's done something wrong (or right). One of our children, we can simply say "we are disappointed" and she immediately turns around. So every child is different.
I do agree that there is a loss of communication, there is a loss of time and energy spent parenting. There are so many parents with two or three jobs, parents who are letting the school system, the television, mysapce, Facebook, video games, etc. be the ones to raise their children/be the babysitter. And it's wrong.
I was never given physical punishment as a child either. My mother said "you're grounded" and it devastated me. No television, no HOME phone (we didn't have cell phones), but the worst was that I couldn't go outside and play with my friends. But it's a different generation, it's a different environment, it's a different world.
And fear shouldn't be confused with respect. But children should know who is in charge, and respect their parents/elders/superiors. Period.
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02/27/2012 05:02:47 PM · #244 |
Reminds me of the movie, "Superbad", where the guy is addicted to drawing penises.
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02/27/2012 06:29:47 PM · #245 |
Can you spell civil case
I find it absolutely abhorrent that common sense seems to have been left out of the equation by all parties, particularly the police.
I used to take pride in the fact that I spent 30 years in a police force but cringe whenever I read things like this.
Ray |
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02/27/2012 08:34:48 PM · #246 |
Dang it, I waded through that entire interview and they didn't show the kid's drawing. Was it any good? Did the kid get
a good mark out of it? Or, in other words, yeah, the folks in charge of the asylum sometimes are overzealous in interpreting the 'rules.'
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02/27/2012 08:37:46 PM · #247 |
Originally posted by dyridings:
And fear shouldn't be confused with respect. But children should know who is in charge, and respect their parents/elders/superiors. Period. |
 Dyridings. I'm sure you are aware that there ARE times when parents are to be feared with good reason. And that is why
Social Services and its equivalent elsewhere, are needed. Children sometime DO need protection from their parents. |
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03/01/2012 02:21:51 AM · #248 |
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03/01/2012 12:15:53 PM · #249 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people
So this 9-year-old should get the book thrown at him. It was not the fault of the inert bit of metal he brought to school. He then pointed this inert bit of metal at the 8-year-old and activated it.
The 8-year-old girl is in critical condition right now up there in the Seattle area.
So, tell me, why don't we enforce gun laws already on the books, and insist that guns are handled only by responsible citizens? why?
Okay, I'll stand aside now, and let the barrage fire. |
sfalice-
I have not read every post of this thread, however I have read all of yours.
1. The NRA has an Eddie the Eagle program, specifically designed for children. It emphasizes notifying a parent, uncle, teacher, etc if a playmate has a gun. It is very effective at teaching firearm safety, however many schools will not allow it due to political reasons.
2. Your husband reads like an exemplary man. Teaching firearm safety is paramount to good gun skills.
3. I have attended many classes, schools, institutes, etc. for firearms training. EVERY one had SAFETY as its first and primary focus.
4. The only state I know of that does not require both licensing and traing for a carry permit is Vermont. All others (that allow their residents to carry publicly) require training and licensing. However - I believe you are asking for licensing for any ownership. That is a different matter to me, as you do not need a drivers license to buy or own a car. You need a license to drive one on public roads. Nearl all states that have laws allowing citizens to carry a handgun in public, also require training and licensing.
5. I am a firm believer in training. Lots of training. I started a company 20 years ago for that very purpose.
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03/01/2012 01:44:00 PM · #250 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by dyridings:
And fear shouldn't be confused with respect. But children should know who is in charge, and respect their parents/elders/superiors. Period. |
Dyridings. I'm sure you are aware that there ARE times when parents are to be feared with good reason. And that is why
Social Services and its equivalent elsewhere, are needed. Children sometime DO need protection from their parents. |
I fully agree with that.
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