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10/12/2011 09:13:50 PM · #201 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Hawkins and Kelli, I think your response indicates you are caricaturing my position.
Anyway, I'm just stating my opinion and your results may vary. I'm happy with my choices and where it has led me in life and would recommend it to someone who asked. |
I'm really not. I respect the choices you've made as long as you're happy with them. I just wouldn't make those choices for myself or recommend them to anyone else. I'm also just stating my opinion and the fact that I'm happy I did things the way I did. |
Some review of the data:
Premarital Promiscuity and Extramarital Affairs. Studies further indicate that having premarital partners is negatively correlated with being monogamous after marriage (Forste & Tanfer, 1996; Treas & Giesen, 2000; White, Cleland & Carael, 2000). Treas and Giesen (2000) found that for both men and women, having sexual experiences previous to marriage or cohabitation was positively correlated with infidelity in the current relationship, for both cohabiting and marital relationships. The authors attributed this finding to the Ć¢learned advantageĆ¢ sexually experienced individuals have with regards to seeing sexual opportunities and maintaining partners. An international study of men examined factors of extramarital sex. The number of premarital partners was significantly correlated with extramarital intercourse in the past year (White, Cleland & Carael, 2000).
THE EFFECTS OF PREMARITAL SEXUAL PROMISCUITY ON SUBSEQUENT MARITAL SEXUAL SATISFACTION
The sample included 313 married males and females between the ages of 18-40 using data from the NHSLS survey, a United States national
random sample. The dichotomous dependent variable combined measures of emotional and physical sexual satisfaction. Premarital sexual promiscuity was measured continuously. Implications for clinicians are discussed.
Of males, 87.7% reported being extremely satisfied with their marital sexual relationship and 12.3% reported being moderately satisfied. Of females, 84.6% of reported extreme satisfaction and 15.4% reported moderate satisfaction with their marital sexual relationship. The range of partners including the marital partner was 1-191 for men and 1-66 for women. The mean number of partners was 11.35 (SD 19.77) for men and 4.25 (SD 6.3) for women.
Results indicate that for every additional premarital sexual partner an individual has, not including the marital sexual partner, the likelihood that they will say their current marital sexual relationship is extremely satisfying versus only being moderately satisfying goes down 3.9%. Additionally, when running models separately for males and females, the male model was more significant at 5.3%. The female model approached significance. Control variables for the models were not significant except that males who were not White, Black, or Hispanic, were 8.9% less likely than White males to report being extremely satisfied with their marital sexual relationship as compared to only being moderately satisfied. This model does not account for individuals who had sex with their spouse before marriage and the results should not be interpreted to include such. |
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10/12/2011 09:14:40 PM · #202 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
This is just an update on what has happened. I am not going to get into anything about previous posts...
I came into the room today after dinner and he told me 2 things as soon as I walked in...
First he told me thank you for not babying him and basically slapping him in the face. At this point I did apologies but he would not even let me finish without saying thank you again. Basically telling me that I should not be sorry.
Second he said the girl has taken 2 take home pregnancy tests both of which came back negative. He said that they have parted ways.
After this I waited to see if he would want to talk to me about it more but he decided to put his headphones in and resume to doing whatever it is that he was doing on his computer when I walked in.
I hope that is the end. |
"Thank you for slapping me in my face with my hypocrisy. But, I wasn't found out, so... I'm gonna listen to some music now..."
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 21:14:53. |
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10/12/2011 09:39:24 PM · #203 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Hawkins and Kelli, I think your response indicates you are caricaturing my position.
Anyway, I'm just stating my opinion and your results may vary. I'm happy with my choices and where it has led me in life and would recommend it to someone who asked. |
I'm really not. I respect the choices you've made as long as you're happy with them. I just wouldn't make those choices for myself or recommend them to anyone else. I'm also just stating my opinion and the fact that I'm happy I did things the way I did. |
Some review of the data:
Premarital Promiscuity and Extramarital Affairs. Studies further indicate that having premarital partners is negatively correlated with being monogamous after marriage (Forste & Tanfer, 1996; Treas & Giesen, 2000; White, Cleland & Carael, 2000). Treas and Giesen (2000) found that for both men and women, having sexual experiences previous to marriage or cohabitation was positively correlated with infidelity in the current relationship, for both cohabiting and marital relationships. The authors attributed this finding to the Ć¢learned advantageĆ¢ sexually experienced individuals have with regards to seeing sexual opportunities and maintaining partners. An international study of men examined factors of extramarital sex. The number of premarital partners was significantly correlated with extramarital intercourse in the past year (White, Cleland & Carael, 2000).
THE EFFECTS OF PREMARITAL SEXUAL PROMISCUITY ON SUBSEQUENT MARITAL SEXUAL SATISFACTION
The sample included 313 married males and females between the ages of 18-40 using data from the NHSLS survey, a United States national
random sample. The dichotomous dependent variable combined measures of emotional and physical sexual satisfaction. Premarital sexual promiscuity was measured continuously. Implications for clinicians are discussed.
Of males, 87.7% reported being extremely satisfied with their marital sexual relationship and 12.3% reported being moderately satisfied. Of females, 84.6% of reported extreme satisfaction and 15.4% reported moderate satisfaction with their marital sexual relationship. The range of partners including the marital partner was 1-191 for men and 1-66 for women. The mean number of partners was 11.35 (SD 19.77) for men and 4.25 (SD 6.3) for women.
Results indicate that for every additional premarital sexual partner an individual has, not including the marital sexual partner, the likelihood that they will say their current marital sexual relationship is extremely satisfying versus only being moderately satisfying goes down 3.9%. Additionally, when running models separately for males and females, the male model was more significant at 5.3%. The female model approached significance. Control variables for the models were not significant except that males who were not White, Black, or Hispanic, were 8.9% less likely than White males to report being extremely satisfied with their marital sexual relationship as compared to only being moderately satisfied. This model does not account for individuals who had sex with their spouse before marriage and the results should not be interpreted to include such. |
These studies just don't mean much to me. My mother was married before she had sex. She had me. She'd go out & come home to find that he'd had women there. He left within a year looking for something better, and we're talking 47 years ago. He never paid a dime, and I never saw him again. I made a commitment to myself at a fairly young age that I would only get married once, so I better be sure who I was marrying. My kids would have a father who was present. I was sexually active before I met my husband, I was also in love before I met my husband. I seriously could have made a bad mistake if I hadn't slept with that person because we weren't compatible at all. My husband had three serious relationships before we met. I had a bit more. Neither of us has cheated. So are we just anomalies? |
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10/12/2011 09:42:11 PM · #204 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
you paraphrased me to remove the point. That is, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act The sex act does not become legal because there are not any places I can think of where extra marital sex is not legal already (governments the world over have long recognized the reality of the sex drive and the impracticality of enforcing any such ruling) In the same way a child has legal rights including maintenance whether or not his or her parents are or were married. You implied that premarital sex was just about the short-term fun for the man, I would say that is completely ridiculous. And you were the one that omitted any mention of a woman's enjoyment of the act.
I don't know about women enjoying sex more when they are married (you've just added the 'committed relationship' cop out that you didn't use before) but I do know a lot of letters to magazines that start, "Before we got married the sex was great but then..." |
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but the idea that children have a legal right to maintenance when born out of wedlock is NOT as clear cut as you imply. It requires a court to order DNA testing and if a male contests that order it is virtually impossible to force him. the forth amendment arguments could easily drag on for years and be VERY costly to a woman who has likely be placed in a precarious financial situation.
I "omitted" any mention of a woman's enjoyment of sex because it was not what I was talking about. I was posting my opinion of the morality of pre-marital sex and the modern day relevance of that morality. I'm not sure how you concluded that I was discussing a particular sex act or a woman's sexual pleasure.
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
But none of these things are exclusive to a marriage are they? A child can still be aborted within a marriage. Bastard? In 2011? Are you serious? Can I ask how old you are? 2 parent counterparts? All children have 2 parents, the lifelong level of involvement of both parents in a child's life is not incumbent on the fact of whether those parents are married or not. Odds of a happy childhood are greatly diminished? Think about your argument - you are talking here about single parent families (which are not necessarily unhappy places anyway) not premarital sex. |
I never claimed they were exclusive to children born out of wedlock. I am merely saying i believe these things are much more likely in these situations. I am serious about the stigma of being born out of wedlock and if you don't believe it happens then I'd say you may be being just a bit naive. And I'm not sure why you ask, but I'm 53...
However that is your right... Believe what you want. I came back to this site to discuss and enjoy photography. There are many other forums where I can argue with someone while neither of us are interested in listening to the other.
I am reminded of why I had turned off the rant section from my forum list when i was last a member. Not sure how I set it back to on, but that is one thing I can and will fix...
To any offended by anything I said, sorry you took it the way you did... Enjoy |
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10/12/2011 09:44:41 PM · #205 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
So are we just anomalies? |
No. Not necessarily. The study was measuring risk. According to this study, your course of action was riskier, but doesn't mean it couldn't still end well. I'm not so black-and-white to try to imply it always works one way and never works another. |
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10/12/2011 10:57:59 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I saw a recent Google News article looking at divorce and sexuality and found that the most correlated risk for divorce (among the risks looked at) was the husband's sexual satisfaction with his wife. If you don't have any "body of experience" (mild pun intended) for comparison, you are less likely to be unsatisfied. |
Is that what is called in science a "guess with no evidence to base it on"? My from what I have been told by a friend who is a family councillor (again, no proof here, just a few stories) is that the admitted reason for dissatisfaction most often comes with comparing the spouse of thirty years with the person they were when you met them. Yes, I am sure that if you have multiple partners in your teens and twenties you would compare them with your wife of many years, but apparently it is far more common to compare your 50 year old wife with the woman she was before the kids, and parenting and 30 years of putting up with an imperfect husband. |
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10/13/2011 12:11:09 AM · #207 |
| Brennan, did you not see the studies I quoted? |
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10/13/2011 01:57:12 AM · #208 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
you paraphrased me to remove the point. That is, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act The sex act does not become legal because there are not any places I can think of where extra marital sex is not legal already (governments the world over have long recognized the reality of the sex drive and the impracticality of enforcing any such ruling) In the same way a child has legal rights including maintenance whether or not his or her parents are or were married. You implied that premarital sex was just about the short-term fun for the man, I would say that is completely ridiculous. And you were the one that omitted any mention of a woman's enjoyment of the act.
I don't know about women enjoying sex more when they are married (you've just added the 'committed relationship' cop out that you didn't use before) but I do know a lot of letters to magazines that start, "Before we got married the sex was great but then..." |
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but the idea that children have a legal right to maintenance when born out of wedlock is NOT as clear cut as you imply. It requires a court to order DNA testing and if a male contests that order it is virtually impossible to force him. the forth amendment arguments could easily drag on for years and be VERY costly to a woman who has likely be placed in a precarious financial situation.
I "omitted" any mention of a woman's enjoyment of sex because it was not what I was talking about. I was posting my opinion of the morality of pre-marital sex and the modern day relevance of that morality. I'm not sure how you concluded that I was discussing a particular sex act or a woman's sexual pleasure.
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
But none of these things are exclusive to a marriage are they? A child can still be aborted within a marriage. Bastard? In 2011? Are you serious? Can I ask how old you are? 2 parent counterparts? All children have 2 parents, the lifelong level of involvement of both parents in a child's life is not incumbent on the fact of whether those parents are married or not. Odds of a happy childhood are greatly diminished? Think about your argument - you are talking here about single parent families (which are not necessarily unhappy places anyway) not premarital sex. |
I never claimed they were exclusive to children born out of wedlock. I am merely saying i believe these things are much more likely in these situations. I am serious about the stigma of being born out of wedlock and if you don't believe it happens then I'd say you may be being just a bit naive. And I'm not sure why you ask, but I'm 53...
However that is your right... Believe what you want. I came back to this site to discuss and enjoy photography. There are many other forums where I can argue with someone while neither of us are interested in listening to the other.
I am reminded of why I had turned off the rant section from my forum list when i was last a member. Not sure how I set it back to on, but that is one thing I can and will fix...
To any offended by anything I said, sorry you took it the way you did... Enjoy |
Not at all offended; I have enjoyed the exchange. I see that, having made your last response, you close the argument to any further rejoinder. I was genuinely interested in how you came to form your views but am happy, in the spirit of Christian brotherhood, to cede to you the last word. |
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10/13/2011 05:59:58 AM · #209 |
| So another advantage of pre-marital sex is that you'll be more aware of how rubbish your post-marital sex is. |
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10/13/2011 10:15:23 AM · #210 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
you paraphrased me to remove the point. That is, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act The sex act does not become legal because there are not any places I can think of where extra marital sex is not legal already (governments the world over have long recognized the reality of the sex drive and the impracticality of enforcing any such ruling) In the same way a child has legal rights including maintenance whether or not his or her parents are or were married. You implied that premarital sex was just about the short-term fun for the man, I would say that is completely ridiculous. And you were the one that omitted any mention of a woman's enjoyment of the act.
I don't know about women enjoying sex more when they are married (you've just added the 'committed relationship' cop out that you didn't use before) but I do know a lot of letters to magazines that start, "Before we got married the sex was great but then..." |
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but the idea that children have a legal right to maintenance when born out of wedlock is NOT as clear cut as you imply. It requires a court to order DNA testing and if a male contests that order it is virtually impossible to force him. the forth amendment arguments could easily drag on for years and be VERY costly to a woman who has likely be placed in a precarious financial situation.
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Are you kidding? I don't know where you live, but here, all that has to happen here is the mother puts down the fathers name on the birth certificate and he's on the hook. The burden is placed on him to prove he's not the father and THEN he must go to court to get the support order rescinded. Even then, he still must pay support for the time period the order was in effect, legit father or not. He could be paying thousands of dollars per month, taken straight from his paycheck, regardless of his other expenses. The orders are also retroactive, so, it's entirely possible for a woman to have a child out of wedlock and then after some months, or even years, go to the court and say, "so and so is my child's father, I want support." Immediately, that guy is on the hook for child support back to the child's birth, even if he had no idea the child even existed. The family court system is so slanted toward the woman/mother that guys don't have a prayer.
Message edited by author 2011-10-13 10:22:05. |
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10/13/2011 10:50:54 AM · #211 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
A man no longer feels he needs to impress once that ring is on the finger. |
Ouch! Not all of us are like that.
Some of us know that being who we are rather than trying to maintain an image of something we're not is paramount to establishing, and maintaining, a healthy and lasting relationship.
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10/13/2011 11:01:03 AM · #212 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
A man no longer feels he needs to impress once that ring is on the finger. |
That's just as true for women.
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10/13/2011 11:12:46 AM · #213 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Realistically speaking, premarital sex makes a guy happy for couple of minutes and potentially ruins a woman's life, as well as the life of the offspring that may result from the sex. |
A couple of minutes???? Wow! If that's your views and experience it's pretty sad. A couple of minutes is hardly any kind of relationship, and not all participants in pre-marital relations fall into this very sad profile.
As far as ruining lives, that's every bit as much of a choice, as was the relationship, no matter how brief it may have been. Plenty of people have been brought into this world unplanned without it being the disaster you portray here.
Originally posted by myqyl:
"Adulterous thoughts" are a gateway drug to premarital sex. Hence lustful thoughts can conceivably (pun-intended) destroy at least two lives, while making some guy smile for a few minutes. |
Crap! Thoughts are just that.......if you act upon them, that's a different story. Theoretically, as more highly evolved creatures, we have the ability to decide how to deal with our thoughts and urges.
I want a D3x......REALLY badly! But I'm not going to knock over a bank to buy one, or steal one from a camera store. So I'll just have to deal with my covetous thoughts.... Really not all that difficult.....
Originally posted by myqyl:
Aside from being Biblical, it seems like a pretty clear "modern society" choice to me...
... but that's just me |
The only thing that's clear is that it's a choice.....and in this type of situation, it cannot be anything but an obviously important choice. The problem lies in accepting accountability for that choice should something not go as planned or intended.
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10/13/2011 11:27:28 AM · #214 |
This thread is making me horny.
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10/13/2011 11:49:02 AM · #215 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
This thread is making me horny. |
ROFL! Yeah right. |
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10/13/2011 12:29:09 PM · #216 |
| So, from this thread to date: Do not accept cigs from strikeslip, the robot in Heavy Metal was right about sex, the dude has repented and the girl's life is in for a change because she did not say no. |
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10/13/2011 01:10:29 PM · #217 |
Originally posted by TheDruid:
So, from this thread to date: Do not accept cigs from strikeslip, the robot in Heavy Metal was right about sex, the dude has repented and the girl's life is in for a change because she did not say no. |
Umm... Except that it would seem that she's not pregnant at the moment. |
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10/13/2011 01:38:09 PM · #218 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by TheDruid:
So, from this thread to date: Do not accept cigs from strikeslip, the robot in Heavy Metal was right about sex, the dude has repented and the girl's life is in for a change because she did not say no. |
Umm... Except that it would seem that she's not pregnant at the moment. |
I was thinking more along the lines of narrow minded apologists. |
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10/13/2011 03:04:38 PM · #219 |
| Maybe the roomate needs to increase his online porn viewing...take care of his urges that way. |
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10/13/2011 03:42:56 PM · #220 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Maybe the roomate needs to increase his online porn viewing...take care of his urges that way. |
I see a definite future as a therapist for you! or maybe it's a future of therapy! :D |
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10/13/2011 03:48:54 PM · #221 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Maybe the roomate needs to increase his online porn viewing...take care of his urges that way. |
What if he is Catholic .... every sperm is sacred ... evn sinster_leo's ... rofl |
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10/13/2011 04:21:31 PM · #222 |
Originally posted by TheDruid:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Maybe the roomate needs to increase his online porn viewing...take care of his urges that way. |
What if he is Catholic .... every sperm is sacred ... evn sinster_leo's ... rofl |
He can freeze the sperms so he can still have kids if his nuts fall off or get bitten off by a wild chihuahua. |
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10/13/2011 04:37:41 PM · #223 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
He can freeze the sperms so he can still have kids if his nuts fall off or get bitten off by a wild chihuahua. |
They've domesticated chihuahuas????
Ferocious little ankle-biters......never saw a tame one! LOL!!!
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10/13/2011 04:41:10 PM · #224 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
They've domesticated chihuahuas????
Ferocious little ankle-biters......never saw a tame one! LOL!!! |
I walk my dog past a yard that has four of them. It's like a mini pack of wolves! |
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10/13/2011 04:45:18 PM · #225 |
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