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01/12/2011 08:37:48 PM · #251 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
You cannot contradict yourself more if you tried. |
Perhaps you should consider a bit of remedial English education.
Let me simplify for the simple.
People who are non-aggressive but opposed are fine by me... People who try to start fights with someone carrying a gun, simply because they are carrying that gun, deserve whatever they might get. Make sense now? And you're damn right I'm quite willing to meet aggression with greater aggression - that's one of the issues I have with some folks, they think I should meet an aggressor with the "turn the other cheek" mentality... Sorry, but I'd rather not, as one bruised cheek is quite enough for me. |
You are amongst the most aggressive people on this board. Is it really necessary to try to belittle anyone who opposes your viewpoint? Calling people dolts, simple, a sniping asshole, etc. etc.
Yet you expect people to be non-aggressive towards you? |
Aggressive with words, with words... I can discuss things in this same manner, in person, laid back with a smile on my face, a genuine smile, talking at a normal volume level, I expect the same of others (more or less anyway, a smile isn't required). Sure I'm aggressive with words, but you'll notice that I've not suggested that I'm going to actually pop you or anyone else in the kisser have I? At least not for disagreeing with me, however vehemently.. I might have a small urge to do so when someone attacks my character without good cause, or based upon some twisting of something I've said, sure that's annoying, but not really gonna get me to do something..
Now, if we (proverbial we, and or you - from here forth) should be having this (or any other) discussion in real life, and you feel the need to suddenly start having the discussion at unreasonable volume levels, at at unreasonably short distances to my person, you might well find that I am quite willing to take violent remedies... Justifiably so, IMO, as that behavior constitutes an immediate personal threat, at a severity which would justify the use of moderate physical force. Which, before you think I mean I'm going to shoot you or something so silly, means that I'd be quite willing to make you set on the floor, in a quick and effective manner.
I'm sure you'll think I'm wrong for that.. I feel quite strongly that I am not. |
Which is unfortunate. Refusing to continue a discussion with someone that was talking in a loud volume or disrupting your personal space (without actually touching you) actually works volumes better than escalating it INTO a physical confrontation yourself. Sure, if someone got up and popped you one completely out of the blue, you have every reasonable right to respond back physically to make sure they don't keep doing it. However, that's not what you're discussing, and that's not what you've discussed in any post of yours YET. Every single time you've come across as the one that is just waiting, just WANTS someone to get to a point where you can use a show of physical force to "prove" your superiority. You might have convinced yourself that it's just 'protecting yourself' in some way, but it's not really.
You've convinced yourself that walking away or turning the other cheek or anything of that nature is somehow inherently weak, and that any eventual physical confrontation is probably needed to prove your strength. That's how I see it anyway. You'll disagree, of course. |
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01/12/2011 08:40:46 PM · #252 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I don't think you've actually read anything anyone in this thread has said, and are doing your own over-reactionary posting, and engaging in exactly what you're railing on about :D |
Well, you'd be completely off track then, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
Out of fairness... prove me wrong! Where am I being partisan exactly? And where am I being irrational about guns because I'm scared of them? Cite examples, please. |
I didn't say you were being partisan OR scared of guns, did I? I said you were being over-reactionary and engaging in the same TYPE of posting that you were accusing others of, not that you were posting the same subjects.
I don't really see the need to be that much more specific really. Your post speaks for itself. |
"Engaging in exactly what you're railing on about" seems pretty precise to me. No? I don't see 'type' or 'something like' or 'along the lines of' in there anywhere. Just 'exactly'. And, double-checking, I'm railing on about unnecessary partisanship, letting a fear of guns cloud reason, and the apparently hard to explain discrepancies found in firearm statistics. Semantics FTW!
Your non-responses are getting pretty consistent here. I'd love to read an actual point.
And you're right, my post speaks for itself. That's why I'm so confused about your take on it.
Message edited by author 2011-01-12 20:44:43. |
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01/12/2011 08:42:54 PM · #253 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I don't think you've actually read anything anyone in this thread has said, and are doing your own over-reactionary posting, and engaging in exactly what you're railing on about :D |
Well, you'd be completely off track then, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
Out of fairness... prove me wrong! Where am I being partisan exactly? And where am I being irrational about guns because I'm scared of them? Cite examples, please. |
I didn't say you were being partisan OR scared of guns, did I? I said you were being over-reactionary and engaging in the same TYPE of posting that you were accusing others of, not that you were posting the same subjects.
I don't really see the need to be that much more specific really. Your post speaks for itself. |
"Engaging in [i]exactly what you're railing on about"[/i] seems pretty precise to me. No? I don't see 'type' or 'something like' or 'along the lines of' in there anywhere. Just 'exactly'. And, double-checking, I'm railing on about unnecessary partisanship, letting a fear of guns cloud reason, and the apparently hard to explain discrepancies found in firearm statistics. Semantics FTW!
Your non-responses are getting pretty consistent here. I'd love to read an actual point.
And you're right, my post speaks for itself. That's why I'm so confused about your take on it. |
What actual point do you need? It wouldn't matter if I wrote a novella. I know exactly what kind of people I'm talking to here. There IS no point :D |
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01/12/2011 08:46:58 PM · #254 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
I also think this is a valid question for any gun advocate: What do you do during any 24 hour period that makes you want to carry a gun. |
Nothing, I keep my guns safely locked in boxes until I bring them to the range.
Does that answer your question? :)
How about this:
I think about how fun it would be to go shooting, so I want to carry a gun to the range.
On second thought, I don't think this question is valid for any gun advocate. |
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01/12/2011 09:00:31 PM · #255 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
I also think this is a valid question for any gun advocate: What do you do during any 24 hour period that makes you want to carry a gun. |
Nothing, I keep my guns safely locked in boxes until I bring them to the range.
Does that answer your question? :) |
Sure
Originally posted by Mousie:
How about this:
I think about how fun it would be to go shooting, so I want to carry a gun to the range.
On second thought, I don't think this question is valid for any gun advocate. |
Well, I happen to think all questions are valid. You seem quite defensive.
I'm not talking about taking your gun to the range. As far as I know, the topic, in part, is the need/desire to carry a weapon through out the day/night. So I'll restate the question: What motivates a gun owner to carry a weapon as if they are wearing a watch?
Message edited by author 2011-01-12 21:01:20. |
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01/12/2011 09:04:35 PM · #256 |
Ben, If I had a carry permit, which I intend to get, I'd carry a weapon in case I was at a mall and my 9-year-old daughter was in danger of being shot and killed.
I'd hate to have been at that shooting and known I could have done something to save my daughter from death... IF ONLY I'd had a gun.
Guns don't kill people.
PEOPLE kill people.
Just because some folks drive while drunk does not mean that all of us should not be allowed to drive. |
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01/12/2011 09:07:00 PM · #257 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
What actual point do you need? It wouldn't matter if I wrote a novella. I know exactly what kind of people I'm talking to here. There IS no point :D |
And what type of people would those be? I'm dying to know what cubby I share with coryboehne. I hope it's not too close for his comfort, ho ho!
But you caught me. I'm not actually looking for a point. I'm just pointing out that you don't have one, and how you seem to prefer insinuation, assumptions, and syntactical errors over making one.
However, since I'm such a pedant and you asked so nicely, how about you respond to that little 'exactly' issue I pointed out? I mean, if you're going to avoid refuting information in favor of questioning the intent and skill of the presenters, can't you at least do THAT conclusively? :) |
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01/12/2011 09:09:05 PM · #258 |
He fired 20 shots in about 20 seconds. If someone there had had a gun, he STILL would have killed 6, wounded 14 before he was stopped as he had to reload. As it was, a chair did a fine job of stopping him in this case. It would have perhaps been more satisfying had someone shot him. But in the ensuing confusion, what if a third armed citizen arrived, saw the concerned citizen firing at the original gunman, and thought "Oh gosh! A gunman!" and killed the first concerned citizen? How does one keep track of who did what to whom is such a horrifying and confusing encounter?
I have long since acknowledged I live in a country of guns. I don't have to like it, but I do accept I can't change it. Even those in Congress have essentially quit trying. The "no guns within 1000 feet of a Congress person" rule is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. For one thing, Congresspeople would have to keep 1000 feet apart to avoid violating it (that could perhaps be a very good thing!) and why are Congresspeople more important than the rest of us, hmmm? |
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01/12/2011 09:10:58 PM · #259 |
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
Ben, If I had a carry permit, which I intend to get, I'd carry a weapon in case I was at a mall and my 9-year-old daughter was in danger of being shot and killed.
I'd hate to have been at that shooting and known I could have done something to save my daughter from death... IF ONLY I'd had a gun.
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I doubt a civilian with a gun would have prevented the shooting, but an unarmed woman prevented more death.
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01/12/2011 09:14:02 PM · #260 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
I'll restate the question: What motivates a gun owner to carry a weapon as if they are wearing a watch? |
That's a much better question. It removes the faulty assumption found in the first version, that all gun advocates want to carry guns around. The original was only a valid question for some gun advocates.
And wow, any question is valid? Ok then! Why is the sky made of marshmallow?
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01/12/2011 09:19:02 PM · #261 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Ok then! Why is the sky made of marshmallow? |
Because it is not made of oranges. |
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01/12/2011 09:22:58 PM · #262 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
I always preferred to carry concealed, but since it was, at the time, against the law - there were times that I felt carrying the darn thing legally was a good idea... I pretty quickly went back to carrying it concealed despite the legality issues due to the aforementioned anti-gun idiots.. (it's a misdemeanor anyway. Not exactly a huge offense) |
Have you actually used it yet? Just curious, really, I don't live in New Mexico, but I haven't needed one yet in Los Angeles, or previously in Philadelphia. If not, what do you do during any 24 hour period that makes you want to carry a gun. |
Yep, I've shot a ton of paper and other inanimate objects... Didn't I mention that I no longer even see a need for one? What did I previously do? You have no business knowing. |
Cory, I meant have, in this case did, you use it while carrying it concealed;i.e., did you ever come across a situation in which you were grateful for carrying a weapon?
I also think this is a valid question for any gun advocate: What do you do during any 24 hour period that makes you want to carry a gun. |
Only one has it ever been pointed at a human. It was highly effective without discharging.
Basically I was sitting in my car in Albuquerque when a shady looking bum came up to the car, at first he asked for a smoke, which I gave him (I smoked then, so I had one available, and I don't mind "helping out" someone who's willing to ask (usually)..), but then after he light it he started to act funny and displayed a medium size knife while leaning slightly in my window... I'd been a bit worried since the entire thing has started to get a touch odd, so it wasn't really a surprise... When he asked me for money, implying that he might be willing to do anything for it, I redirected his attention to the gun that was in my hand pointing towards the inside of my car door.. He pretty quickly understood that I wasn't the guy he was looking for, and he took off... I called the cops, but in Abq at that time the South Valley wasn't really top priority for APD, and I doubt they ever did much to follow up on it... Probably should have shot the idiot to prevent him from getting someone else, but I didn't really feel like paying the price for playing the hero.
So yeah, one time I've pulled it... Never discharged it in anger, never want to.
I have however, many times been glad that it was there, kinda like me asking you how many wrecks you get into a week, after all you feel you need bumpers, airbags and seatbelts, yet I'm going to be you don't find that you need them every 24 hours (if you do, please, oh please stop driving now! :) )...
It's more about the security of knowing that you won't be overpowered by someone who has an equal or lesser weapon... (clearly my handgun will do shit-nothing against someone who's out to kill me and happens to own a hunting rifle)...
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01/12/2011 09:24:14 PM · #263 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
Ben, If I had a carry permit, which I intend to get, I'd carry a weapon in case I was at a mall and my 9-year-old daughter was in danger of being shot and killed.
I'd hate to have been at that shooting and known I could have done something to save my daughter from death... IF ONLY I'd had a gun.
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I doubt a civilian with a gun would have prevented the shooting, but an unarmed woman prevented more death.
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In Germany, one drunk driving charge and your license is automatically revoked for a year. You must then pass lots of tests and pay tons of money to get it back. Germans love their beverages, but they do make arrangements not to drive when drinking. Bicycling when drinking is a whole 'nuther story, though. |
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01/12/2011 09:26:07 PM · #264 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
You cannot contradict yourself more if you tried. |
Perhaps you should consider a bit of remedial English education.
Let me simplify for the simple.
People who are non-aggressive but opposed are fine by me... People who try to start fights with someone carrying a gun, simply because they are carrying that gun, deserve whatever they might get. Make sense now? And you're damn right I'm quite willing to meet aggression with greater aggression - that's one of the issues I have with some folks, they think I should meet an aggressor with the "turn the other cheek" mentality... Sorry, but I'd rather not, as one bruised cheek is quite enough for me. |
You are amongst the most aggressive people on this board. Is it really necessary to try to belittle anyone who opposes your viewpoint? Calling people dolts, simple, a sniping asshole, etc. etc.
Yet you expect people to be non-aggressive towards you? |
Aggressive with words, with words... I can discuss things in this same manner, in person, laid back with a smile on my face, a genuine smile, talking at a normal volume level, I expect the same of others (more or less anyway, a smile isn't required). Sure I'm aggressive with words, but you'll notice that I've not suggested that I'm going to actually pop you or anyone else in the kisser have I? At least not for disagreeing with me, however vehemently.. I might have a small urge to do so when someone attacks my character without good cause, or based upon some twisting of something I've said, sure that's annoying, but not really gonna get me to do something..
Now, if we (proverbial we, and or you - from here forth) should be having this (or any other) discussion in real life, and you feel the need to suddenly start having the discussion at unreasonable volume levels, at at unreasonably short distances to my person, you might well find that I am quite willing to take violent remedies... Justifiably so, IMO, as that behavior constitutes an immediate personal threat, at a severity which would justify the use of moderate physical force. Which, before you think I mean I'm going to shoot you or something so silly, means that I'd be quite willing to make you set on the floor, in a quick and effective manner.
I'm sure you'll think I'm wrong for that.. I feel quite strongly that I am not. |
Which is unfortunate. Refusing to continue a discussion with someone that was talking in a loud volume or disrupting your personal space (without actually touching you) actually works volumes better than escalating it INTO a physical confrontation yourself. Sure, if someone got up and popped you one completely out of the blue, you have every reasonable right to respond back physically to make sure they don't keep doing it. However, that's not what you're discussing, and that's not what you've discussed in any post of yours YET. Every single time you've come across as the one that is just waiting, just WANTS someone to get to a point where you can use a show of physical force to "prove" your superiority. You might have convinced yourself that it's just 'protecting yourself' in some way, but it's not really.
You've convinced yourself that walking away or turning the other cheek or anything of that nature is somehow inherently weak, and that any eventual physical confrontation is probably needed to prove your strength. That's how I see it anyway. You'll disagree, of course. |
A single hit *(especially from a trained individual) can be fatal... I'm afraid I'd rather not give you the chance to hit me.. If you are acting aggressive, and move within striking distance, I am then forced to decide if you constitute a sufficient threat that I must respond... Clearly if we are talking about a 100lb guy who doesn't look particularly tough, I might not use much force, but if the guy looks like he's tough, mean, or insane, I'll defiantly initiate - I'd be a fool not to. |
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01/12/2011 09:29:53 PM · #265 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
He fired 20 shots in about 20 seconds. If someone there had had a gun, he STILL would have killed 6, wounded 14 before he was stopped as he had to reload. As it was, a chair did a fine job of stopping him in this case. It would have perhaps been more satisfying had someone shot him. But in the ensuing confusion, what if a third armed citizen arrived, saw the concerned citizen firing at the original gunman, and thought "Oh gosh! A gunman!" and killed the first concerned citizen? How does one keep track of who did what to whom is such a horrifying and confusing encounter? |
This is exactly why I don't like it when people try to spin guns as useful in these sorts of situations. It really does a disservice to the pro-gun side... it's complete BS in my opinion. There is too much confusion and chaos to predict how events will unfold... just look at how divergent eye-witness reports are after a crime. "I could have done something!" is armchair quarterbacking. No, no you couldn't. You'd be in shock like everyone else. Or shoot yourself in the junk as you, shaking, try to draw your firearm. Don't be a damn gun hero. You have not been trained for it.
That's not to say a gun wouldn't be handy in certain, rare situations you'll never find yourself in, but for my own arguments I stick to liberty, sport, and fetishizing.
On that note (and since this is a photography website, after all):
//www.flickr.com/photos/pkmousie/4358269638/
Isn't that a beaut? :)
Message edited by author 2011-01-12 21:33:00. |
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01/12/2011 09:33:03 PM · #266 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Originally posted by Melethia:
He fired 20 shots in about 20 seconds. If someone there had had a gun, he STILL would have killed 6, wounded 14 before he was stopped as he had to reload. As it was, a chair did a fine job of stopping him in this case. It would have perhaps been more satisfying had someone shot him. But in the ensuing confusion, what if a third armed citizen arrived, saw the concerned citizen firing at the original gunman, and thought "Oh gosh! A gunman!" and killed the first concerned citizen? How does one keep track of who did what to whom is such a horrifying and confusing encounter? |
This is exactly why I don't like it when people try to spin guns as useful in these sorts of situations. It really does a disservice to the pro-gun side... it's complete BS in my opinion. There is too much confusion and chaos to predict how events will unfold... just look at how divergent eye-witness reports are after a crime. "I could have done something!" is armchair quarterbacking. No, no you couldn't. You'd be in shock like everyone else. Or shoot yourself in the junk as you, shaking, try to draw your firearm. Don't be a damn gun hero. You have not been trained for it.
That's not to say a gun wouldn't be handy in certain, rare situations you'll never find yourself in, but in for own arguments I stick to liberty, sport, and fetishizing.
On that note (and since this is a photography website, after all):
//www.flickr.com/photos/pkmousie/4358269638/
Isn't that a beaut? :) |
I'll see that (nice!) and raise you...
ETA: This was the model's idea folks... That's her, both of them. So, just to quash the queasy, there was never a gun pointed at anyone for that photo..
Message edited by author 2011-01-12 21:34:08. |
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01/12/2011 09:40:18 PM · #267 |
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01/12/2011 09:58:52 PM · #268 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
And this happens in the wilderness as much as in town. |
What are the practical reasons that you carry a handgun in the wilderness?
I ask because a lot of people have asked me if I do, since the majority of my trips are solo and in isolated backcountry. I never saw a reason to, because it never struck me as a practical solution. Handguns are relatively heavy, for one, but more importantly, the times you would need one are situations that overwhelmingly triggered by idiotic behavior on your behalf in the first place. They strike me as a license to engage in thoughtless behavior. And, quite frankly, I've had more incidents that cause reason for concern about getting accidentally shot by reckless gun users in the backcountry than I ever have from close wildlife encounters. |
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01/12/2011 10:32:31 PM · #269 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
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At first I thought this was going to be a jackass with a gun! Ha! |
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01/12/2011 10:53:37 PM · #270 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by Mousie:
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At first I thought this was going to be a jackass with a gun! Ha! |
Oh trust me, this is indeed a jackass. :) |
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01/12/2011 11:03:12 PM · #271 |
| I can't tell you how completely tasteless it seems to me to show off weapons during a discussion such as this. |
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01/12/2011 11:48:37 PM · #272 |
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
Guns don't kill people.
PEOPLE kill people. |
I think, however, the point has been made a few times.
People kill people...much easier...with guns. |
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01/13/2011 12:33:07 AM · #273 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
And this happens in the wilderness as much as in town. |
What are the practical reasons that you carry a handgun in the wilderness?
I ask because a lot of people have asked me if I do, since the majority of my trips are solo and in isolated backcountry. I never saw a reason to, because it never struck me as a practical solution. Handguns are relatively heavy, for one, but more importantly, the times you would need one are situations that overwhelmingly triggered by idiotic behavior on your behalf in the first place. They strike me as a license to engage in thoughtless behavior. And, quite frankly, I've had more incidents that cause reason for concern about getting accidentally shot by reckless gun users in the backcountry than I ever have from close wildlife encounters. |
For these, a stick works about as good as a pistol.
 
Panthers and bears are a whole 'nother story though.
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01/13/2011 12:52:23 AM · #274 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
And this happens in the wilderness as much as in town. |
What are the practical reasons that you carry a handgun in the wilderness?
I ask because a lot of people have asked me if I do, since the majority of my trips are solo and in isolated backcountry. I never saw a reason to, because it never struck me as a practical solution. Handguns are relatively heavy, for one, but more importantly, the times you would need one are situations that overwhelmingly triggered by idiotic behavior on your behalf in the first place. They strike me as a license to engage in thoughtless behavior. And, quite frankly, I've had more incidents that cause reason for concern about getting accidentally shot by reckless gun users in the backcountry than I ever have from close wildlife encounters. |
I can't tell you why, I'd only know that after I needed the darn thing... I don't find weight to be a problem, if I did, I should probably think about dropping a hamburger a week or something, as that'd make much more difference than the entire gun in a short time.
Humans are also a factor in the wilderness, and while I've only heard of one attack, and that was at a semi-camp ground area.. Still, you never know.. Maybe I'll find an unfortunate deer that's just fallen off a cliff that is suffering and going to die, I'll gladly spend .50c to ease it's suffering... Sure, there are reasons... Maybe I'll just need to hammer in a tent peg or something, that's why my gun has a drop safety anyway isn't it? |
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01/13/2011 12:55:04 AM · #275 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I can't tell you how completely tasteless it seems to me to show off weapons during a discussion such as this. |
Yes, of course... How tasteless of  Mousie and I to put pictures of guns in a gun discussion thread on a photo website, what ever were we thinking.....
Message edited by author 2011-01-13 00:56:03. |
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