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01/08/2010 06:15:12 PM · #101 |
| I'm curious what you saw in the pic Bear, since you called it "thought provoking". What did it provoke in you? |
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01/08/2010 06:33:50 PM · #102 |
Did you ever vote a photo down without regards to its qualities simply because you hated a certain style or a certain subject? If you answered yes, the yes I called you closed minded.
I could care less how people vote, as long as they don't vote with preconceived notions and biases. If you vote honestly and consistently, then that's all that really matters.
I'm not stupid, I know that no single photo is ever going to please all of the people. I never ever said that you should like it, and that if you don't, then you're closed minded.
(I'm not trying to say that you are a biased voter Chaimelle or single you out...this just seemed like a good qoute to attach my attempt at clarification of my statement. I'm not good with words, never have been...hopefully this makes more sense to the masses)
Question to the OP...were you truely interested in discussing the photo, or were you just interested in calling me out?
Originally posted by chaimelle:
It's about disagreeing and being labeled closed minded... |
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01/08/2010 06:46:49 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by pekesty:
Did you ever vote a photo down without regards to its qualities simply because you hated a certain style or a certain subject? If you answered yes, the yes I called you closed minded.
I could care less how people vote, as long as they don't vote with preconceived notions and biases. If you vote honestly and consistently, then that's all that really matters.
I'm not stupid, I know that no single photo is ever going to please all of the people. I never ever said that you should like it, and that if you don't, then you're closed minded.
(I'm not trying to say that you are a biased voter Chaimelle or single you out...this just seemed like a good qoute to attach my attempt at clarification of my statement. I'm not good with words, never have been...hopefully this makes more sense to the masses)
Question to the OP...were you truely interested in discussing the photo, or were you just interested in calling me out?
Originally posted by chaimelle:
It's about disagreeing and being labeled closed minded... |
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You know, all this makes me wonder......
If the average given score is 5.5, and people are really submitting what they feel is their best work, then don't you think that it's obvious just from that statistic that there is a certain amount of low voting that is done here simply on the lack of personal appeal.
This, like many things, I feel has a beneficial and negative side.
The beneficial potential is that if you produce images which hit all the key elements, then you will almost always do well - rarely do I look at a challenge and find huge faults in the winning images, and funny enough they're usually of damned appealing subject matter too.
The negative side is that real creativity may be stifled if you are just looking to score well, as some very creative images score really low.
So- what do I think is the ideal? Shoot what you like, find the one image you like, do what you can to process it to your taste. If you don't win, you still have an image you like, if you do win, then it was a pure, unadulterated win, something that's much better than a win based on a shot that was only made to win (still a damn fine thing to do though...)
Personally I vote images by how well I like them and their technical competency, 5 pts each.. that means a technically well done photo like the OP's photo in question, cannot get lower than a four even if I hated it, as I do feel it was technically well done, if not perfect, and while I actually don't love the photo, my response is still positive enough to add a +1 to make a score of 5, this was one of my least favorites, but still a well done image, as most images that are entered here are...
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.
Cheers,
Cory
Message edited by author 2010-01-08 18:48:00. |
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01/08/2010 07:01:47 PM · #104 |
Imagine a thread with a rule that you're not allowed to post if you're already certain what your position is.
Imagine what an interesting discussion that might produce. |
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01/08/2010 07:05:23 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm curious what you saw in the pic Bear, since you called it "thought provoking". What did it provoke in you? |
It's not a matter of *what* it made me think, that's personal and it's irrelevant. It's that it *did* make me think, it *provoked* me to think, it is "thought provoking". I like when things make me stop and think; I find that a virtue, in a thing. So much that is termed "excellent" in the DPC world is not especially, or at all, thought provoking, and I don't exclude my own high-scoring images, or yours, from that comment.
Mind you, it's not a *requirement* in my world that an image be thought-provoking; I just very much enjoy it when they are. Just like I enjoy beautiful scenes breathtakingly rendered, or incredibly detailed, larger-than-life-size macros of otherwise mundane things imbued with a sense of wonder. I enjoy it all.
But in our little world, macros and scenics get most of the good press, and the quirky, thought-provoking images rarely do.
R. |
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01/08/2010 07:20:12 PM · #106 |
| On the thumb the white portion kinda looks like a toilet to me and now I can't see anything else! |
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01/08/2010 07:28:25 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
On the thumb the white portion kinda looks like a toilet to me and now I can't see anything else! |
Quick, turn it up-side-down before it turns into
This!
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01/08/2010 08:45:12 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
On the thumb the white portion kinda looks like a toilet to me and now I can't see anything else! |
haha, that's what I first thought, as well!! |
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01/08/2010 08:48:24 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
On the thumb the white portion kinda looks like a toilet to me and now I can't see anything else! |
haha, that's what I first thought, as well!! |
me, too. :P |
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01/08/2010 09:04:43 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by RKT:
...you know what sucks...expressing an opinion in one thread because you were disappointed that an image you really enjoyed got a bum score...then being called out in a new one. I know Barry was probably just trying to start a conversation...but... |
My first reaction after reading the post made in the referenced thread (Posthumous Ribbons) was to respond to it there, however I didn't think it would be appropriate to potentially derail that thread with this discussion.
Yes, I am interested in discussing this ("artsy" photo gets voted down = DPC masses are closed minded). I've tried a couple of times to keep this somewhat on track by posting some additional photos that could add to the discussion and responding to some as well (i.e. - yanko's photo posted by pawdrix).
It's funny in a way when you consider the theme for this thread category. From the Forum description for 'Challenge Results' threads: "Discuss challenge results here. Did the winner deserve to win, or did another photograph?" Try THAT conversation started and see where it gets you (actually I think it has been tried a time or two with predictable results). :-) |
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01/08/2010 09:21:40 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by pekesty:
... no single photo is ever going to please all of the people. I never ever said that you should like it, and that if you don't, then you're closed minded. |
IMO it didn't come across that way when you made the following statement:
Originally posted by pekesty:
I knew we were closed minded around here, but this has to be a new low...
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Originally posted by pekesty:
Question to the OP...were you truely interested in discussing the photo, or were you just interested in calling me out? |
I was reacting to the sentiment made that basically DPCr's in general are closed minded because the photo presented scored below the perceived value of one individual. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others on this subject and "artsy/unique" photos in general. So far the discussion has been interesting and representative of the diverse global community here at DPChallenge. |
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01/08/2010 09:32:04 PM · #112 |
The discussion has been interesting, hasn't it.
For those who followed my link to the Duchamp art piece, you know that this discussion has been going on for ages and, no doubt will continue for ages more.
there will always be those who say: "I don't know anything about art, but I know what I like."
there will always be those who test the boundaries, and make new ones.
Sometimes, they come together and find a little more understanding.
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01/08/2010 09:40:58 PM · #113 |
So, we're back to that...again. So this is not a discussion about the photo like you claim? I really had hoped I had expanded and clarified. Oh well!
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by pekesty:
... no single photo is ever going to please all of the people. I never ever said that you should like it, and that if you don't, then you're closed minded. |
IMO it didn't come across that way when you made the following statement:
Originally posted by pekesty:
I knew we were closed minded around here, but this has to be a new low...
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Originally posted by pekesty:
Question to the OP...were you truely interested in discussing the photo, or were you just interested in calling me out? |
I was reacting to the sentiment made that basically DPCr's in general are closed minded because the photo presented scored below the perceived value of one individual. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others on this subject and "artsy/unique" photos in general. So far the discussion has been interesting and representative of the diverse global community here at DPChallenge. |
Message edited by author 2010-01-08 21:42:24. |
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01/08/2010 09:51:59 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by RKT:
...you know what sucks...expressing an opinion in one thread because you were disappointed that an image you really enjoyed got a bum score...then being called out in a new one. I know Barry was probably just trying to start a conversation...but... |
My first reaction after reading the post made in the referenced thread (Posthumous Ribbons) was to respond to it there, however I didn't think it would be appropriate to potentially derail that thread with this discussion.
Yes, I am interested in discussing this ("artsy" photo gets voted down = DPC masses are closed minded). I've tried a couple of times to keep this somewhat on track by posting some additional photos that could add to the discussion and responding to some as well (i.e. - yanko's photo posted by pawdrix).
It's funny in a way when you consider the theme for this thread category. From the Forum description for 'Challenge Results' threads: "Discuss challenge results here. Did the winner deserve to win, or did another photograph?" Try THAT conversation started and see where it gets you (actually I think it has been tried a time or two with predictable results). :-) |
(bold added be me)
Ha! Provocative wording to say the least.
What if instead of "close-minded" we used resistant...obstinate...or even narrow-minded. They all mean the same thing.
Would people be less offended I wonder? And in turn less defensive?
There will always be a divide, no doubt about it. But many people do "cross over", so to speak. What is that thing that nudges someone from being a voracious eater of eye candy, to a more finicky sort of viewer. Some people have the curiosity from the moment they pick up the camera while others never grow beyond wanting technical perfection. I wonder why that is. Do some reach a certain photographic maturity others aren't even really aware of? Or maybe there are just different photographic denominations, and we are bound to keep fighting each other.
Message edited by author 2010-01-08 21:52:50. |
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01/08/2010 09:56:10 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by pekesty:
So, we're back to that...again. So this is not a discussion about the photo like you claim? I really had hoped I had expanded and clarified. Oh well! |
Many have responded (positives & negatives) in regard to the photo posted in the OP of this thread, myself included.
Many have also responded to the philosophy of unique/artsy photographs and their place and/or acceptance at DPChallenge.
I've found it interesting and thank ALL who've contributed thus far with various thoughts and comments.
I think Alice summed it up well in her recent post that a debate of this type (what is art) "will continue for ages more".
So...if you'd like to comment regarding this photo --> as to whether it was given a fair shake or ignored by "closed-minded" DPCr's...please do so.
If you'd like to discuss artistic photos in general, throw it out there. I'm fine with all of the above. :-D |
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01/08/2010 10:00:31 PM · #116 |
Man! Rachel ( RKT) put up a great post while I was slaving over the right thing to say. Please, ignore me and respond to this...she's much more gifted with words than I. :-)
Originally posted by RKT:
... What if instead of "close-minded" we used resistant...obstinate...or even narrow-minded. They all mean the same thing.
Would people be less offended I wonder? And in turn less defensive?
There will always be a divide, no doubt about it. But many people do "cross over", so to speak. What is that thing that nudges someone from being a voracious eater of eye candy, to a more finicky sort of viewer. Some people have the curiosity from the moment they pick up the camera while others never grow beyond wanting technical perfection. I wonder why that is. Do some reach a certain photographic maturity others aren't even really aware of? Or maybe there are just different photographic denominations, and we are bound to keep fighting each other. |
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01/08/2010 10:01:38 PM · #117 |
| I have to say I enjoyed ZZs shot from a purely abstract point of view...and the silky moody delicious goodness of it all. I also have a thing for arrows... |
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01/08/2010 10:05:25 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
The discussion has been interesting, hasn't it. |
Yes, it's been a very good discussion, despite assorted attempts to polarize it. Everyone has a legitimate POV here, and it's interesting to see them all getting expressed. As you pointed out, this discussion has been ongoing in the art world pretty much forever.
I think in the isolated land of DPC we tend to lose sight of that.
R. |
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01/08/2010 10:25:40 PM · #119 |
As i said earlier, i loved the photograph. For me it was thought provoking and invokes a strong air of mystery. I found a heavy leaden sense of dread in there and the numbers were intriguing; were they a phone number or an address or perhaps a tattoo on a wrist? What did the two arrow sigil represent? Its an image i can go back to repeatedly i think and get a lot out of.
Saying all that; do i think it matters that Zeuszen might not of intended any of this when he made the photo? Nah, not at all. Many pieces of music, for example, invoke all sorts of emotions and imaginary trips in me that i'm sure are often not intended. I often think its better not to know what the artist thinks. I remember reading an interview with the writer and director of the film Donnie Darko and feeling quite disappointed with his explanations of what the film meant as they were far more mundane and boring than what i'd imagined. Thats one of the reasons why i love David Lynch so much as he refuses to explain his films, knowing that the meaning to the viewer may be entirely different but just as valid as his own.
Does it make a difference now that i know Zeuszen's image is just a photo of some numbers on some packing plastic? Maybe feel slightly foolish that i read so much into it? Not in the slightest. Just as it doesn't matter to me that i know sound effects on a radio play are often just wood and paper or computers. |
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01/08/2010 10:49:13 PM · #120 |
I liked the photo...hard to tell, I know! ;)
There are no deep meaningful reasons why I like it...but I did google the title wondering if there was a deeper meaning. I just found the photo visually appealing. Almost embarrassing to say, but it was "eye candy" to me. I do really like the fact that Zeus took the ordinary and made it interesting. A skill that some have and I'm always amazed by!
The clarity was very good, the tones were very pleasing, nothing weird about the composition that would shock anyone, no bizarre subject matter that would offend. With nothing really overtly wrong about the photo, it was kind of shocking to see the number of extremely low votes...what else to attribute it to other than bias votes!?! |
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01/08/2010 11:05:47 PM · #121 |
Perhaps it's a preselection bias, but I rarely see the "artsy crowd" (you know who you are) say "this shot doesn't do much for me. I gave it a 3.". It leads to the impression that anything done in this genre is great. Maybe people are just being nice or maybe only the really good shots are winding up in threads, but it makes it harder to take it all seriously.
Great art of any genre should be uncommon, if not rare. They can't all be "great". |
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01/08/2010 11:08:36 PM · #122 |
bold emphasis added...
Originally posted by pekesty:
... The clarity was very good, the tones were very pleasing, nothing weird about the composition that would shock anyone, no bizarre subject matter that would offend. With nothing really overtly wrong about the photo, it was kind of shocking to see the number of extremely low votes...what else to attribute it to other than bias votes!?! |
Just because an image is fine on technicals doesn't make it automatically a fine piece of work. Subject matter is VERY important, at least to me it is. If I cannot engage with the image and find it pleasing to look at I'll just say "eh" and move on. Sorry, this one just wasn't my cup of tea (and I do like some "artistic" photos).
BTW - all votes are biased in some manner. |
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01/08/2010 11:14:31 PM · #123 |
I missed that one in voting, but I can tell you that I am a fanatic for polyethylene film vapour barrier material and for that reason alone, I would've given it a 10.
...Oh wait, I did actually vote on that one and I gave it a five. I stand corrected - apparently I am not a fan of polyethylene film vapour barrier material. |
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01/08/2010 11:14:47 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Perhaps it's a preselection bias, but I rarely see the "artsy crowd" (you know who you are) say "this shot doesn't do much for me. I gave it a 3.". It leads to the impression that anything done in this genre is great. Maybe people are just being nice or maybe only the really good shots are winding up in threads, but it makes it harder to take it all seriously.
Great art of any genre should be uncommon, if not rare. They can't all be "great". |
I definitely should comment more but i near enough always give out quite a few 4s and some 3s in each challenge. I certainly don't think they are all great. In most cases i'd say my voting was quite common, with the first couple of pages of a challenge holding my 6,7,8s and the last pages with the 3,4,5s. My favourite 9 and 10s though are often scattered throughout and are often towards the back of the bunch though.
Message edited by author 2010-01-08 23:15:41. |
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01/08/2010 11:34:42 PM · #125 |
...and they should be, to a degree...but the whole scale? Part of the scale for quality and part of the scale for how it appeals to you. How you break it up, is up to you...but almost the whole scale because someone submitted a photo of a cat and you hate cats!?!
I'm sure you didn't do that or you wouldn't be discussing the photo now. But we've both seen comments in threads that say, "I hate cats, any cat photo will get a three or less." Hell, I even remember one "artsy" member saying more or less the same thing about any photo that didn't "move" him.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
...BTW - all votes are biased in some manner. |
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