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12/07/2009 01:23:17 PM · #1 |
Here's a Rod Dreher column that really hits close to some concerns of mine. It seems to me, also, that we can see evidence of the trend he's discussing right here in DPC-land, where folks are oft prone to substituting belief for reasoning, and discussions become entirely circular as a result.
You have your opinion; they have theirs.
What say y'all?
R. |
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12/07/2009 01:33:49 PM · #2 |
His observation, "intellectual corruption tainting public discourse", say it all. I agree that this seems to be the way we are headed on both sides the political spectrum. That is why the swing voters have become so powerful in the US and why the political system uses fear and tactics of distraction to undermine others positions or sway voters. It works. So many people have become enslaved by their ideology instead of using their brain to reason.
The big question is what do we do about it? Can we effectively change this trend?
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12/07/2009 01:47:45 PM · #3 |
| Why do I need to think when I can just attribute everything to a higher power? Much move convenienT1 |
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12/07/2009 01:51:46 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Why do I need to think when I can just attribute everything to a higher power? Much move convenienT1 |
Well, there is that whole free will thing to consider.....
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12/07/2009 01:59:27 PM · #5 |
| I think the death of reason is a very real and current threat to the development of society. |
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12/07/2009 01:59:46 PM · #6 |
i don't think it's a new trend at all.
makes me think of this theory i have.
i call it wearing a mask.
when you have the mask on - you are not yourself. you are thinking like someone else wants you to think, and at the same time hiding your true thoughts/reason behind it.
the problem is - the more you put the mask on - the harder it is to remove. and, so your real self slowly gets morphed into the mask wearing self. at that point, you are lost.
ETA: i know it sort of sounds like a movie theme... oh well.
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 14:05:08. |
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12/07/2009 02:04:02 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by frisca:
I think the death of reason is a very real and current threat to the development of society. |
I'd substitute a complete lack of common sense.......I'm constantly amazed to see how many people manage to bumble through life without one whit of common sense.
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12/07/2009 02:18:02 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by soup:
...i call it wearing a mask...and, so your real self slowly gets morphed into the mask wearing self. |
Dang! I was espousing this belief back in 1964, as a senior in H.S.; "The mask becomes the reality" was the way I expressed it. Some things never change, eh?
R. |
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12/07/2009 02:19:30 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by soup:
...i call it wearing a mask...and, so your real self slowly gets morphed into the mask wearing self. |
Dang! I was espousing this belief back in 1964, as a senior in H.S.; "The mask becomes the reality" was the way I expressed it. Some things never change, eh?
R. |
Damn Robert! You remember high school? |
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12/07/2009 02:30:15 PM · #10 |
well i guess i can read then :)
Originally posted by Bear+Music:
Originally posted by soup:
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...i call it wearing a mask...and, so your real self slowly gets morphed into the mask wearing self.
Dang! I was espousing this belief back in 1964, as a senior in H.S.; "The mask becomes the reality" was the way I expressed it. Some things never change, eh?
R. |
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12/07/2009 02:33:43 PM · #11 |
it's possible, likely, that as a society the mask gets put on earlier in life today. before you are even aware of it. so your 'self' is lost before you even discover it.
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12/07/2009 02:38:52 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by soup:
it's possible, likely, that as a society the mask gets put on earlier in life today. before you are even aware of it. so your 'self' is lost before you even discover it. |
Very early i'd say but i suspect it's always been such. Consider gender specific baby clothes and accessories. |
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12/07/2009 02:48:52 PM · #13 |
do kids 'grow up' earlier these days ?
it's not about the clothes, it's about 'not' thinking that you don't want to wear 'that' color...
Originally posted by clive_patrick_nolan:
Originally posted by soup:
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it's possible, likely, that as a society the mask gets put on earlier in life today. before you are even aware of it. so your 'self' is lost before you even discover it.
Very early i'd say but i suspect it's always been such. Consider gender specific baby clothes and accessories. |
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12/07/2009 02:49:45 PM · #14 |
"... For at least a generation, this sort of thing has panicked conservative thinkers, who blame liberals for mainstreaming moral relativism and lack of respect for truth ...".
The author of the linked article nearly lost me with that! Perhaps he should have left it at "conservatives" rather than "conservative thinkers." Anyway, at least the examples he used aren't so slanted. |
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12/07/2009 02:53:31 PM · #15 |
| It's funny, as I started to read the article I immediately thought of Sarah Paling and her supporters. |
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12/07/2009 02:55:35 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by soup:
...i call it wearing a mask...and, so your real self slowly gets morphed into the mask wearing self. |
Dang! I was espousing this belief back in 1964, as a senior in H.S.; "The mask becomes the reality" was the way I expressed it. Some things never change, eh?
R. |
Damn Robert! You remember high school? |
Of course he does! It was a big year, what with the emancipation proclamation at all... |
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12/07/2009 02:57:25 PM · #17 |
they are in panic because they don't understand the concept, and have no means to rationalise it themselves, yet at the same time are afraid to ask for an outside opinion because those outside opinons are nothing but liberal BS.
Originally posted by citymars:
"... For at least a generation, this sort of thing has panicked conservative thinkers, who blame liberals for mainstreaming moral relativism and lack of respect for truth ...". |
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12/07/2009 03:02:08 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by soup:
they are in panic because they don't understand the concept, and have no means to rationalise it themselves, yet at the same time are afraid to ask for an outside opinion because those outside opinons are nothing but liberal BS. |
Hence the many folks who believe that the most impartial fact-checking websites are "liberally slanted." |
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12/07/2009 03:05:44 PM · #19 |
it's a concept. not a fact.
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12/07/2009 03:25:07 PM · #20 |
I think it was as epigraph to Mother Night that Kurt Vonnegutt wrote: 'We are what we pretend to be, so we'd better be pretty damn careful about what we pretend to be.'
I don't know if you guys in the Land of Free are allowed to read Vonnegutt these days? |
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12/07/2009 03:39:02 PM · #21 |
The article rings true. I think the author is a conservative intellectual, and so his interpretation of the history of the problem is itself unreasonable in my view. But he isn't wrong about the general state of reason and dialectic in our culture, and it is frightening. And you do see it here at DPC, and I'm sure at every other forum that's visited.
There's only one way to combat it: to teach critical thinking skills to people as soon as they are able to speak. I've always felt this was a dire necessity. Parents should eschew belief in "kid-friendly" notions like Santa Claus, and teach them how to dissect a problem with reason, argue a position with rationale, and solve problems through discourse. |
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12/07/2009 03:59:04 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Louis:
...and teach them how to dissect a problem with reason, argue a position with rationale, and solve problems through discourse. |
I shall reserve a seat for you in the Republic. The way things are going, it will be a small country, largely dependent on those who resist it; but at least we will know each other by name. |
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12/07/2009 04:07:20 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Louis:
There's only one way to combat it: to teach critical thinking skills to people as soon as they are able to speak. I've always felt this was a dire necessity. Parents should eschew belief in "kid-friendly" notions like Santa Claus, and teach them how to dissect a problem with reason, argue a position with rationale, and solve problems through discourse. |
I completely agree. My parents had me hooked on "Little Thinker" tapes when I was a kid. My cousins all got the fun toys growing up, and I was always the "smart one", so I got all the puzzles and other thinking toys. I thought it was lame at the time, but now I can't thank my family enough!
Society has to take back control of the kids from the toy industries. We need to buy what is right for the kid, not what is shoved down their throats during Saturday morning cartoons. We also need to stop cutting early school education. Schools here have lost so much funding that they can't even run a full week, and teachers are being asked to work for free or cut wages. If we don't teach the foundation early, it's too late. I can't understand why people just let this happen to their kids. I don't even have kids, and it infuriates me! |
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12/07/2009 04:12:23 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by aliqui:
We need to buy what is right for the kid, not what is shoved down their throats during Saturday morning cartoons. |
Don't be to hard on cartoons, I learned a lot about what not to do by watching road runner cartoons. I think the coyote's misfortunes taught us about the importance of better planning...:P |
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12/07/2009 04:19:05 PM · #25 |
| They also taught us that if you run off the edge of the cliff fast enough, you'll levitate for no less than five full seconds before falling to nothing more than a dusty landing in a dried riverbed. :P |
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