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02/10/2004 11:29:11 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Anyway, yes he would be champ to the masses. But we seem to be getting away from the integrity part of this thread.. |
You mean this was about integrity? In that case I take back all the comments I've made about global warming. |
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02/10/2004 11:29:53 AM · #77 |
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02/10/2004 11:32:46 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Lol |
There was a point ? I thought it was just random comments.
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02/10/2004 11:33:02 AM · #79 |
Umm, just to jump in here and be difficult.
If guy three won, he would have less overall integrity (not photographic integrity) because he would have checked a box saying his picture was made with a digi cam, when in fact it was a scan. Thus, he would be dq'ed, and this would be a moot point.
:-P |
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02/10/2004 11:37:48 AM · #80 |
| To me it is about degrees, I want to fully learn how to use my camera first, and in time I will probably be forced to learn photoshop. I do think it takes skill as a photographer (straight shot) to get the exposure i.e. correct, at current I take shots that are not exposed right or composed right ect. I want to know that I am capable of doing that. When I am capable of doing this in pretty much every situation then I will feel like I can 'add' or 'take away' in photoshop with integrity. If recently I took a shot which was too dark, and I could dodge and burn to 'fix'. However, I think I would first like to know how I could of taken it with proper exposure. Then my adjustments would feel they had 'integrity' bc I know I had/have skill to do it properly. Ansel Adams ( i suspect) knew with great precision how to shoot straight shots to be just as he wanted and also knew how to do things later. At this point in my photography I want to prefect my straight shots then and only then will I feel like I have integrity in any photoshop adjustments. |
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02/10/2004 11:39:14 AM · #81 |
The whole point is, many people have the attitude that you seem to have - that unless your images come straight from camera and require no editing - then you have no standing as a photographer or low and behold "Your not a proper photographer"
This was more so a few years back, but even today many people scorn if you used Photoshop in any single way. " Hey was that sky so dramatic, or did you use photoshop" "Oh I burnt it in Photoshop" "tsk, geek"
Yet most people are amazed and stunned when told of the hours upon hours he would spend editing & playing around with his photographs in the darkroom, and then spend more hours upon hours spot editing his final print. Easily spending more time editing than the actual taking of the photograph.
(And I truly hate to use Mr. Adams in arguments - but he is generally regarded as an accomplished photographer and known to most)
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02/10/2004 12:09:57 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
1) i think you missed my point in the first instance. my point was that, under the old rules, people would say 'this looks too (choose your word) 'fake, artificial, processed, ps'd, etc', and would vote a picture down. but it was ok for some reason, then. whatever reason a person didn't like a picture, they were 'allowed' to go with it. maybe the picture looked processed when it had been achieved with some other means, but even then, the person, thinking it looked processed, was free to give their two cents (and whatever vote they deemed reasonable).
2) now that we have less restrictive rules, there's a photoshop witch hunt underway. But it's still the same as before. People are still saying that they don't like something that looks like it was created with heavy handed image editing, EVEN IF it was created with other means. Yes, they're guessing about the process, but if they don't like the end result, who is to say that the vote they give isn't valid?
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Points both taken, now and earlier. I think there are cases where voters like the end result,
but don't like the process. But that's just speculation. Only the votes count.
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02/10/2004 12:19:43 PM · #83 |
I think what ellamay says (quite eleoquently) encompasses the spirit of what dpc is all about. At least that is my understanding of it after being here about 6 months now. I use a challenge score to compare, or equate, images because that is where we all meet, compete, and discuss things; it is our common language so to speak.
I don't perceive the scorn of all editing that you speak of to be the dominant feeling here. After all, don't we have to use some editing software just to get our images to the required size for submission. Some pepople don't think to much of using a lot of editing but acknowledge that they usually should use some editing. But I do perceive that most feel, as ellamay says, that we are here to learn how to use the camera.
I would never say that the guru or the film master have no standing as photographers, or that their images have no "photographic integrity", but I do think higher of guy one and his images. |
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02/10/2004 12:54:35 PM · #84 |
I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my comments and votes on this challenge. Please stop sending me emails now whining about the score I gave you!
The three photos at the top of this thread did receive a score of 1 from me. I made false assumptions. I apologize for that.
That being said, I would have given one additional point to two of them and two additional points to the other one. I didn't like the photos. They didn't inspire me in any way. I'm not artistic enough to see the glory in any of those photos, unfortunately. I'm just a dum ole country boy from western north carolina.
I will, in the future, refrain from commenting on photos that I do not like. It's just not worth it.
Cheers and good day...
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02/10/2004 01:00:33 PM · #85 |
Hi john
I can certainly accept a low vote, especially on this shot, I would not have scored it well myself. I was not whining about my scores, tho I do appreciate the apology re: assumption. None of my comments in this thread (or others) were directed toward you specifically, more general debate on the topic : ).
p.s. I think commenting is worth it : ) |
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02/10/2004 01:06:40 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by ellamay:
p.s. I think commenting is worth it : ) |
Not sure if you have tried or not, but I suggest commenting on your lower scores for a while and see if you still feel its worth it. I know the general feel is that that would be the group of pictures that might get the most value from such comments but I don't think John's experience is isolated...
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02/10/2004 01:36:00 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by ellamay:
p.s. I think commenting is worth it : ) |
Not sure if you have tried or not, but I suggest commenting on your lower scores for a while and see if you still feel its worth it. I know the general feel is that that would be the group of pictures that might get the most value from such comments but I don't think John's experience is isolated... |
If my own experience with critically commenting on entries is any indication, I imagine John's expressed weariness is due to the reactive nature of emails/PM's he may have received.
I, too, feel the futility of effort, when I receive reactive messages without any factual references to my specific obsevations. Since obviously, no benefit can be had from an exchange like this, I simply remove my original comment.
Let silence be a teacher to those we cannot engage.
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02/10/2004 02:05:17 PM · #88 |
@Dwoolridge - I agree with almost everything you said. I gave your shots a 3, 3 and 5 in order. Find us better examples.
M |
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02/10/2004 02:29:45 PM · #89 |
I didn't read all FOUR pages to this thread so maybe someone said this already: the administrators have said DUBIOUS amounts of times to vote on an image as if it FULLY meets the challenge rules and if you have doubt, then recommend it for a DQ. By not following these guidelines, those of you posting accusational comments during voting are FAR MORE guilty of bending/breaking the DPC rules than the photographer.
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02/10/2004 02:33:51 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my comments and votes on this challenge. Please stop sending me emails now whining about the score I gave you!
The three photos at the top of this thread did receive a score of 1 from me. I made false assumptions. I apologize for that.
That being said, I would have given one additional point to two of them and two additional points to the other one. I didn't like the photos. They didn't inspire me in any way. I'm not artistic enough to see the glory in any of those photos, unfortunately. I'm just a dum ole country boy from western north carolina.
I will, in the future, refrain from commenting on photos that I do not like. It's just not worth it.
Cheers and good day... |
ya know, people probably wouldn't mind comments so much if the people who made them didn't get on forums and call them whiners. Hey John, are you WHINING about getting PM'd? So now voters with negative comments won't post due to backlash, and photographers won't PM due to backlash, if this keeps up we'll all be happy because the forums and inboxes will be EMPTY...I can see the weeds blowing now.......
Message edited by author 2004-02-10 14:35:05. |
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02/10/2004 02:42:12 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I didn't read all FOUR pages to this thread so maybe someone said this already: the administrators have said DUBIOUS amounts of times to vote on an image as if it FULLY meets the challenge rules and if you have doubt, then recommend it for a DQ. By not following these guidelines, those of you posting accusational comments during voting are FAR MORE guilty of bending/breaking the DPC rules than the photographer. |
As anyone said anything to do with cheating or reaking the rules ?
The posts are all about actually upholding the rules as written...(which if you read them, you'll notice says 'consider photographic integrity in the highest regard when voting'
The discussion is just about what that actually means...
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02/10/2004 02:43:21 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I didn't read all FOUR pages to this thread so maybe someone said this already: the administrators have said DUBIOUS amounts of times to vote on an image as if it FULLY meets the challenge rules and if you have doubt, then recommend it for a DQ. |
This option is no longer available as the photos do not break any rules and the request for DQ will be ignored. The issue of "photographic integrity" or what constitutes "over-editing" is a matter left entirely to the taste and perceptions of the voters. |
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02/10/2004 02:44:02 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I didn't read all FOUR pages to this thread so maybe someone said this already: the administrators have said DUBIOUS amounts of times to vote on an image as if it FULLY meets the challenge rules and if you have doubt, then recommend it for a DQ. By not following these guidelines, those of you posting accusational comments during voting are FAR MORE guilty of bending/breaking the DPC rules than the photographer. |
The SC has also said COPIOUS (dubious?) times to rate each and every photograph in the challenge on a scale of 1 to 10 (with "1" being a "bad" photo and a "10" being a "good" photo) and if you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, it is suggested that you include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score. You can still vote a 1 without thinking the photo was illegal and you can still feel that it lacks photographic integrity without thinking it was illegal. I don't recall any SC member suggesting that people PM commenters and complain about the comments. There is no GUILT in voting what you think.
And I seriously doubt the forums will ever be empty.
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02/10/2004 02:46:49 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by mk:
And I seriously doubt the forums will ever be empty. |
I'll make sure of that .... |
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02/10/2004 02:52:14 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I didn't read all FOUR pages to this thread so maybe someone said this already: the administrators have said DUBIOUS amounts of times to vote on an image as if it FULLY meets the challenge rules and if you have doubt, then recommend it for a DQ. By not following these guidelines, those of you posting accusational comments during voting are FAR MORE guilty of bending/breaking the DPC rules than the photographer. |
The SC has also said COPIOUS (dubious?) times to rate each and every photograph in the challenge on a scale of 1 to 10 (with "1" being a "bad" photo and a "10" being a "good" photo) and if you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, it is suggested that you include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score. You can still vote a 1 without thinking the photo was illegal and you can still feel that it lacks photographic integrity without thinking it was illegal. I don't recall any SC member suggesting that people PM commenters and complain about the comments. There is no GUILT in voting what you think.
And I seriously doubt the forums will ever be empty. |
It was a joke as in HA HA, funny, humor? No? And how can the forums ever be empty when there's COPIOUS amounts of dribble running so freely from those with heads firmly wedged up one's bottom? Guilty AS charged! |
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02/10/2004 03:02:55 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Let silence be a teacher to those we cannot engage. |
I periodically go back and remove my comments, just on principle. If it weren't for quoting, I could do the same with forum posts. What a dream that would be. |
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02/10/2004 03:19:08 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
ya know, people probably wouldn't mind comments so much if the people who made them didn't get on forums and call them whiners. Hey John, are you WHINING about getting PM'd? So now voters with negative comments won't post due to backlash, and photographers won't PM due to backlash, if this keeps up we'll all be happy because the forums and inboxes will be EMPTY...I can see the weeds blowing now....... |
I have earned my right to whine :)
At this point, I wouldn't encourage anyone to post a comment indicating that they have given a score of 1. People don't take it well. They don't accept 'my' interpretation of what I see.
I don't care to get PMs from photographers during the voting. Generally when I do, its someone explaining why my comment is wrong. This makes me want to go back and dock the score to something even lower usually. Pandering doesn't play well with me.
So, in a nutshell, you are right. I think everyone would be happier overall :)
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02/10/2004 03:23:07 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
ya know, people probably wouldn't mind comments so much if the people who made them didn't get on forums and call them whiners. Hey John, are you WHINING about getting PM'd? So now voters with negative comments won't post due to backlash, and photographers won't PM due to backlash, if this keeps up we'll all be happy because the forums and inboxes will be EMPTY...I can see the weeds blowing now....... |
I have earned my right to whine :)
At this point, I wouldn't encourage anyone to post a comment indicating that they have given a score of 1. People don't take it well. They don't accept 'my' interpretation of what I see.
I don't care to get PMs from photographers during the voting. Generally when I do, its someone explaining why my comment is wrong. This makes me want to go back and dock the score to something even lower usually. Pandering doesn't play well with me.
So, in a nutshell, you are right. I think everyone would be happier overall :) |
As a rule, I don't reveal my score for a photo in my comments. Unless it's a 10, and then, not always.
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02/10/2004 03:31:53 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As a rule, I don't reveal my score for a photo in my comments. Unless it's a 10, and then, not always. |
I don't do it at all anymore. I used to tell my score if I gave a 10 but don't really see the point in it now. I comment on stuff that I like from here on out.
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02/10/2004 03:41:21 PM · #100 |
I post comments on things I like or that I feel I have POSITIVE constructive critism that could be helpful. I really try to not be negative - therefore, I find it better to not comment on any photos that I really dislike - realizing that there may be others who love it.
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