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01/08/2009 01:12:51 PM · #1 |
I'm now afraid to use an ISO over 200. Simply because every time I shoot a photo using an ISO of 400 or more, I capture noise when viewed at 100%. Then i spend half the post processing time trying to figure out how to get rid of the noise. I need help. I see alot of great portraits and people shots shot using 400 and 800 ISOs.
Someone please tell me the trick to using these high ISO's. Keep in mind that I normally have to go to the higher ISO when the lighting isn't that great. Should I be using my flash instead (which i'm just finally learning how to work). Is there a ISO/aperture trick to keep the noise down...please help me out here.
Northwesterner uses an ISO of 400 with a 4.0 aperture in this photo  and there is no noise at all. If that were me, there would be noise every where...granted he has a better camera than mine..but there has got to be a way! |
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01/08/2009 01:17:53 PM · #2 |
A simple trick is to always try and slightly over-expose a shot when using high ISO. Proper exposure is very key, and any underexposure is going to grossly over-state noise levels.
The camera's sensor plays a huge part as well. Some cameras (especially higher-end DSLRs), have incredibly smooth higher ISOs, where lower-range cameras don't. It becomes more prominent when you get cameras that are putting too many megapixels on a smaller sensor as well.
But I digress. The order of the day is exposure, exposure, exposure. And yes, using an external flash to keep your ISO levels down helps too. |
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01/08/2009 01:24:39 PM · #3 |
Northwesterner also used a 5D, which produces less noise than the 350D. Besides, all we have to look at is a JPG at low resolution. Who knows what this shot looked like at 100% in the original. You could bracket and use exposure compensation, of course, but your best bet would be a tripod with a remote to avoid mirror/slap camera shake. Under these conditions, you should be able to squeeze by without increasing your ISO unduly, at least some of the time.
Fill-flash can be very effective, but it doesn't always suit the shot.
Message edited by author 2009-01-08 13:46:32. |
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01/08/2009 01:28:20 PM · #4 |
Neatimage is a great program for reducing noise.
I've got the 400d and shoot at ISO-400 all the time. Neatimage cleans them up pretty good. I find there's a big jump on the rebels from 400 - 800, so I only use 800 when I really need to. I think I've used ISO1600 maybe once but you lose quite a bit of detail. |
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01/08/2009 01:29:01 PM · #5 |
To me, the skin is unusually smooth, which leads me to believe some NI was used. That could take care of the noise too.
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01/08/2009 01:30:43 PM · #6 |
Noise reduction software is always an option (NeatImage, Noise Ninja), although as  K10DGuy said, exposure is the best way to control it; I've shot well-lit images on my 400D at ISO 1600 that came out looking great.
Sorry to say, your camera is a limiting factor. I recall when I had my 300D, going above ISO 400 wasn't really an option and, as you've said, even 400 itself can be noisy.
Short of upgrading, your other option is faster lenses - f/2.8 offers a big difference over the f/4 average of the kit lens. Granted, it's not a cheap fix...
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01/08/2009 01:56:02 PM · #7 |
 zeuszen is right. The 5D produces *way* less noise than the 350D at high ISOs. As far as how to get less noise on the 350D, all I can really do is summarize what others have said...
* When you resize to 640x or 720x, a lot of the noise will go away. That's the first thing to try.
* Don't underexpose anything. Error on the side of overexposing a bit if you can do that without blowing anything out.
* NeatImage or Noise Ninja are your friend.
As far as the image in question, it looks like some noise reduction was applied, although given the 5D's abilities, the noise reduction was probably more for artistic reasons than because the image had much noise to start with.
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01/08/2009 02:05:28 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Ann:
* Don't underexpose anything. Error on the side of overexposing a bit if you can do that without blowing anything out. |
This is true. Also, with good lighting (aka: using flashes, strobes, etc) the noise will be less apparent. But then, if you had good light I suppose you wouldn't be shooting at 400/800. =)
Used 5D's are going for $1200 these days. Consider that against the amount of time you spend editing. |
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01/08/2009 02:26:28 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Used 5D's are going for $1200 these days. Consider that against the amount of time you spend editing. |
Agreed. With my old D70, I used NeatImage on nearly every image. With the D300, I just don't bother. An upgrade from a 350D to a 5D would be about the same. |
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01/08/2009 02:49:15 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Ann:
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Used 5D's are going for $1200 these days. Consider that against the amount of time you spend editing. |
Agreed. With my old D70, I used NeatImage on nearly every image. With the D300, I just don't bother. An upgrade from a 350D to a 5D would be about the same. |
And I also agree. When I upgraded to the D300 my noise issues almost went away. I've taken ISO 1600 shots that I used without Noise Ninja. The big difference between my old D70 and D200 was the sensor. The D300 switched to a higher end CMOS sensor which has much less noise.
You only ohter options have already been stated. |
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01/08/2009 02:53:09 PM · #11 |
Oh well...looks like i have to expose for better lighting and/or upgrade. Can't upgrade at the time...need to buy a house before i buy a new camera...so i guess i'll just have to work on taking better photos.
Thank you all for your comments.
As for Neat Image...just hoping...is there a free version? And can you use it to get that smooth effect even when you don't have noise in your photo? Is there a photoshop equivalent? |
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01/08/2009 02:57:39 PM · #12 |
1)Proper exposure is the first thing. Underexposure and then pulling up the exposure later is death.
2)Stop pixel peeping immediately! It has little relationship to the final print and all you're going to do is drive yourself insane. A 50% view in PS is a pretty good indication of how it will really look.
3)be careful with sharpening! If there noise you may very well sharpen the noise too, making it look worse.
4)shoot RAW when you know you'll be shooting the high ISO pics. This does lots of good things, but primary among them is to eliminate the in-camera sharpening you get with JPGs.
5)choose a picture style carefully - if you're using ACR or LR it doesn't matter, bit other processing things will take their place. Neutral has more DR than standard and landscape sharpens the most. Big difference in what a high ISO image looks like shot with the different pic styles.
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01/08/2009 03:31:32 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by albc28:
As for Neat Image...just hoping...is there a free version? |
Yes, they do have a demo version that you can use. Download it here. |
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01/08/2009 03:33:59 PM · #14 |
The demo plugin allows for 8-bit images at 1024x1024 or less. I'm thinking about buying the plugin.
Which do most people here use anyway: NeatImage or NoiseNinja? (Didn't mean to hijack)
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01/08/2009 03:51:17 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by goinskiing:
The demo plugin allows for 8-bit images at 1024x1024 or less. I'm thinking about buying the plugin.
Which do most people here use anyway: NeatImage or NoiseNinja? (Didn't mean to hijack) |
Some use one, some use the other. It's a Coke vs Pepsi thing. |
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01/08/2009 03:52:03 PM · #16 |
I'm probably restating what others have. I have the same camera as yourself, and can usually get good shots at ISO 400. Sometimes in marginal conditions, I can tell that I may have been able to get something better at a lower ISO, but when that 8 MP image is reduced to a web sizeimage, it usually looks just fine.
My 2nd highest scoring shot was at ISO 400 with my Rebel.
If I print it, I can see some graininess, (The different color gamut of a laser printer shows it more than a monitor does) but on the monitor and especially at web size, it looks just great.
I seem to get the most noise in out of focus backgrounds. I do often do some noise reduction on those areas. Right now I just use the built in tools in PSP, but I will probably be buying NoiseNinja or Neatimage soon.
Do you have some examples of the shots that are getting the noise comments? There may be something else going on.
Added: Looked at your last few challenge entries. They look pretty darn good to me, with no visible noise artifacts.
Message edited by author 2009-01-08 16:05:56. |
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01/08/2009 04:02:27 PM · #17 |
| There are also several noise-reduction programs listed at Download.com, some of which are free; might (or might not) be worth experimenting with them. |
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