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12/19/2008 05:43:23 PM · #76 |
| I have lived in Wisconsin my entire life. Driving without chains is not a restriction. There are 1000's of cars out there right now cutting through a foot of snow, Some are getting stuck but for the most part they would get stuck with the chains on too because 9 out of 10 times they are simply driving too fast or not paying attention to their driving. If you drive with common sense You don't need the chains. If you feel you need the chains you shouldn't even be out on the road until they are plowed. Unless it is an emergancy ofcourse. |
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12/19/2008 05:43:52 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Dude....did you READ this?????
Question: Are tire chains legal in Michigan?
Answer: MCL 257.710 of the Michigan Vehicle Code covers the use of tire chains, and states that a person may "use a tire chain of reasonable proportion upon a vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice, or other condition tending to cause a vehicle to skid." If used, the chain must not come in contact with the surface of the roadway.
What exactly do you think this means?
In pretty much every case, you'll find that state vehicle code can, and will, be overridden by local ordinances.
And local highway departments take a dim view of chains. |
I don't know how your state laws work, but here the provincial highways act takes precedence over local levels. If they want to contravene any section they have to get permission from the province. Then again, maybe your towns have.
(btw, I've never used chains and never plan to. I'm only arguing the incorrect blanket statements about laws that, apparently, even those enforcing them aren't clear about.) |
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12/19/2008 05:46:02 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
Caution!
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Really, really not a viable alternative for anything but the most extreme conditions. |
In some locations you simply cannot drive without chains, so I totally disagree. Just out of curiosity, what do you think people should use instead of chains or studded tires? |
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Obviously, caution is a good idea whenever you drive on ice. Unfortunately, no amount of caution will overcome physics. When your car is sliding down an icy hill, caution will not prevent you from sliding into cross traffic at the intersection.
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12/19/2008 05:47:48 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
Caution!
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Really, really not a viable alternative for anything but the most extreme conditions. |
In some locations you simply cannot drive without chains, so I totally disagree. Just out of curiosity, what do you think people should use instead of chains or studded tires? |
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Obviously, caution is a good idea whenever you drive on ice. Unfortunately, no amount of caution will overcome physics. When your car is sliding down an icy hill, caution will not prevent you from sliding into cross traffic at the intersection. |
Maybe then, enough caution to not even venture out onto the roads? :) |
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12/19/2008 06:04:29 PM · #80 |
That is pretty much what we are doing here today . I had to drive to the grocery store and grab a few things after we got our driveway clear. The store is only a half mile away But it took me 15 minutes to get there with absolutely no traffic, Roads were just horrible.
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Maybe then, enough caution to not even venture out onto the roads? :) |
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12/19/2008 07:11:31 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Dude....did you READ this?????
Question: Are tire chains legal in Michigan?
Answer: MCL 257.710 of the Michigan Vehicle Code covers the use of tire chains, and states that a person may "use a tire chain of reasonable proportion upon a vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice, or other condition tending to cause a vehicle to skid." If used, the chain must not come in contact with the surface of the roadway.
What exactly do you think this means? |
Originally posted by Mick:
I think it means exactly what it says. Tire chains may be used when required for safety. Do you think it means something else? |
Read it C A R E F U L L Y and you'll see that it specifically states that the chains may not touch the road.
That means that it's going to be a case-by-case, on-site judgement call, you WILL get ticketed, and you will lose in traffic court.
You can appeal it, annoy the snot out of the courts for being obnoxious and pedantic, and most likely still lose, but hey......that's your right.
Go for it.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
In pretty much every case, you'll find that state vehicle code can, and will, be overridden by local ordinances. |
Originally posted by Mick:
Then you should be able to show us these overriding local ordinances, right? Let's see 'em. |
Were I so inclined to waste hours doing so, I'm sure I could, but I'm not so inclined, so let's just say you're right and I don't know what I am talking about as it concerns where I live.....I bow to your knowledge of my local laws.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
And local highway departments take a dim view of chains. |
Originally posted by Mick:
Perhaps they do, but fortunately they don't make the laws. |
Yes, actually, they do......you will find that the local municipalities, at least here in Pennsylvania, are completely in charge of what does and does not happen on the highways within their jurisdiction, and YES, they DO override the generalities of the overall state laws.
If you want to fight it, go ahead and try, but why not just obey the traffic laws and local ordinances and not fight city hall over inanities?
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12/19/2008 07:17:37 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Really, really not a viable alternative for anything but the most extreme conditions. |
Originally posted by Mick:
In some locations you simply cannot drive without chains, so I totally disagree. Just out of curiosity, what do you think people should use instead of chains or studded tires? |
I guess I just don't know. I've always used AWD, FWD, RWD, skill and experience, but sometimes I just don;t have to go anywhere badly enough to risk my life or die in the cold, so I stay put.
I've lived in rural areas my whole life, seen snowstorms that grind everything to a dead stop for days, and just never really saw that much chain usage.
I'm right smack in the heart of the ugly lower snow belt and just never really had all that much trouble driving in the snow.
Whatever works for you.....I just thought I'd mention what I know from around here.....I really have no interest in arguing with you about what happens here.
You think you know, fine, but it's certainly not going to change what it is actually like here.
Have a nice weekend.
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12/19/2008 08:04:04 PM · #83 |
Ay yi yi. I want to talk about the lovely snow instead of snow chains.
I am being blanketed at the moment; it is preternaturally quiet and quite lovely. The house lights are casting a warm glow onto the empty bird's nest waiting patiently for spring on the branch of the wisteria just outside the kitchen window. The delicious smells from the kitchen remain uncontained by mere architecture, and are slowly wafting into the living room bending the flame from my candle and inspiring salivation for dinner.
At the moment, I'm all tucked in on the heated couch with a glass of wine and feeling quite pleased with myself that all my Christmas presents got shipped before UPS pulled their drivers off the road for the day. Woo!
Later tonight there will be a fire to heat up the chimney for Santa's visit next week, and tomorrow I intend to play in the snow with wild abandon as though I were 4 years old and seeing it for the first time.
Cause after all, it's the first time this year. :) |
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12/19/2008 09:21:10 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by L2:
At the moment, I'm all tucked in on the heated couch with a glass of wine and feeling quite pleased with myself that all my Christmas presents got shipped before UPS pulled their drivers off the road for the day. |
They should've used snow chains. |
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12/19/2008 09:50:04 PM · #85 |
What a day! My wife & I decided it was too windy to have fun skiing, so we went sledding at the local park:
(eta: I just hate sitting on a ski lift when it's really windy. Sledding+walking=stay warm)
And this is my mailbox:
Message edited by author 2008-12-19 21:52:29. |
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12/19/2008 09:50:27 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by L2:
At the moment, I'm all tucked in on the heated couch with a glass of wine and feeling quite pleased with myself that all my Christmas presents got shipped before UPS pulled their drivers off the road for the day. |
They should've used snow chains. |
Can't be having my poor UPS driver shivering in the cold with only a blanket of snow to keep warm. :)
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12/20/2008 12:26:51 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by JH:
Originally posted by L2:
At the moment, I'm all tucked in on the heated couch with a glass of wine and feeling quite pleased with myself that all my Christmas presents got shipped before UPS pulled their drivers off the road for the day. |
They should've used snow chains. |
Or Hummers. It would help the auto industry too ;P |
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12/20/2008 02:11:26 PM · #88 |
WOOHOO! Finally! 20-30cm coming this way tomorrow night. Must be the same storm that walloped Illinois and WI..
Bring it on :D
Before after shots? hmm
oh and LOL at this being in rant.
Message edited by author 2008-12-20 14:12:10. |
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12/20/2008 02:17:18 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by Jac:
oh and LOL at this being in rant. |
Well, the tire chains discussion was pretty heated :P |
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12/20/2008 03:02:10 PM · #90 |
Tire Chains: Here, they are mostly used for mud! (northwest NM, SW Colorado) Most people that live or work off-highway have to put chains on ALL FOUR tires to get home or check on the herd or get to that well site to work. (natural gas fields). We also have some main highways that can close to all traffic except those with snow tires or chains, usually upper elevations. I don't have any, but I used to for my old 2WD mini pick-up. I used them once in Denver to get fellow students cars unstuck. The BEST thing I ever did in winter is fill up 6 large sand bags and put them over the rear wheels in winter for some added traction via weight. (They do slide around when frozen and can make an awfully loud "thunk" when the hit the front of the truck bed when you slam on your brakes for some idiot who slammed on thier brakes for a gopher in the road.)
All that said.... we only got a trace of snow. :-( Then it rained hard for about 10 minutes, then it all turned into soupy mud, my favorite , then it froze (better, for the night anyway)
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12/20/2008 04:09:20 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
They're expensive to buy, difficult to install and use properly, and downright dangerous to use over about 25 mph. |
If you're in conditions where you need chains and you're doing more than 25 MPH you should have your license taken away. I've seen cars spin 360s (notice the plural) in front of my house doing 15 MPH.
Where I am at- we got 19 inches of snow in the past 48 hours. Should have 10 more tonight. If this keeps out we'll have fabulous waterfalls this summer.
ETA: Forecast calls for 12 more inches from Monday on.
Message edited by author 2008-12-20 16:12:35. |
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12/20/2008 04:13:40 PM · #92 |
It's not the snow I'm hating, it's the -36C windchill.
Of course, I wouldn't have to deal with -36C windchill as much if it wasn't for snow, helping to take out my car, leaving me stranded at bus stops in -36C windchill. |
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12/20/2008 06:24:41 PM · #93 |
This was taken this morning. We had 11 inches yesterday.
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12/20/2008 06:55:38 PM · #94 |
| It is snowing again here, only supposed to get a few inches tonight, however bitter cold temps and strong winds are going to make it alot worse than it would be otherwise. |
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12/20/2008 09:21:16 PM · #95 |
| well i hope to take a few pics for you, i just have issues with actually going outside:/ its really gorgeous here, today it was brilliant blue skys with all the trees perfectly balancing the right amount of snow. with a temp of 5 lol |
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12/20/2008 10:06:39 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
It's not the snow I'm hating, it's the -36C windchill.
Of course, I wouldn't have to deal with -36C windchill as much if it wasn't for snow, helping to take out my car, leaving me stranded at bus stops in -36C windchill. |
Typically January is our coldest month here where we can see -40F ...without figuring in the wind chill.
Message edited by author 2008-12-20 22:07:49. |
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12/20/2008 10:10:29 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
It's not the snow I'm hating, it's the -36C windchill.
Of course, I wouldn't have to deal with -36C windchill as much if it wasn't for snow, helping to take out my car, leaving me stranded at bus stops in -36C windchill. |
Typically January is our coldest month here where we can see -40F ...without figuring in the wind chill. |
Linda, I'm sorry... but's it's ALASKA ffs! lol |
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12/20/2008 11:16:54 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by ShutterPug:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
It's not the snow I'm hating, it's the -36C windchill.
Of course, I wouldn't have to deal with -36C windchill as much if it wasn't for snow, helping to take out my car, leaving me stranded at bus stops in -36C windchill. |
Typically January is our coldest month here where we can see -40F ...without figuring in the wind chill. |
Pugs....why did you leave Michigan to go there in the first place???
How does your car start at -40F?? |
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12/21/2008 01:23:49 AM · #99 |
I hear you on the hating snow concept. Being from warmer climates, I think I've shoveled snow once in my life, and I'm sure it was more for fun than out of necessity... In the past week I've shoveled snow countless times, dealt with chains on a Cadillac with Arizona license plates (wonder why everyone stays far away from me when we're driving? lol), helped de-ice my elderly neighbors' paths from the house to the mailbox and tackled how to make a dog "go" in a gusting snow blast.
It will all be worth it if we have my first true White Christmas.... but I'm forewarning you of how depressed I'll be if it warms up and rains so much it washed it all away on the night of the 24th...
I never imagined I'd live somewhere that our daughter could sled in the front yard and have snowball fights with the dog on commercial breaks... LOL
Message edited by author 2008-12-21 01:34:41.
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12/21/2008 01:53:57 AM · #100 |
This is our backyard deck taken at around midnight tonight.
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